Police Really Utilize Your Inability To Argue

[Yossarian451]

We had been out at the bars and my friend had been drinking more than us and so I decided to drive his truck home. I had 3 beers in 4 hours and was completely fine to drive. About a mile from the house I saw a police vehicle swing around and start following me. At about a half block from the house he turned on his lights. I knew I was well under the limit and hadn't been doing anything wrong. He said that I might have been going 40, but he didn't clock me (it was a 30 zone and at most I could have been 35) and that the truck (not mine) had a light out above the license plate. He asked where we were coming from and I told him that we came from the northgate bars. He ran the information and then asked me to go through the field sobriety test.

A long story short but I recently dislocated my knee in a canyoning accident so I can't fully support my body weight on it. So after the test he tells me that I had failed the test but that he was going to let us just walk the 100 yards to the house since he thought that I was not fit to drive but didn't want to give me a ticket. Now I know that I was under the limit and had I have pressed him to give me a breathalizer I would have been well below the state limit of .08. But the fact of the matter is that he knows that presenting that situation no one is going to argue. I politely told him that I thought I had taken all of the precaution to be safe and I thought I had been fine to drive. He told me he was failing me for a twitch in my eye, which I always have, and my limp in a walk. I didn't argue but tried to understand his reasoning.

I guess the moral of the story is that when they know that they have nothing they will present you with a situation that is less than what they can screw you with and more than nothing, and guess what you will take that. He wasn't rude or anyting it is just that I completly felt like in the situation I was taken advantage of because he knew I had no real power to fight the situation and that if the repercusions were minimal to me he would get his way.

 

[BillyBatson]

i know what you mean, they expect you to shut up and take what they give you or try and argue at which point they would literally shut you up. Yeah you could have gotten away with it, a breahtalizer, or even being taken in to do an in house test but all that would have wasted your time. Funny thing is if you had lied about where you were coming from he might not have even suspected you of drinking, what would he have done then?
and since when is a twitching eye evidense of drinking!

 

[Yossarian451]

Originally posted by: BillyBatson
i know what you mean, they expect you to shut up and take what they give you or try and argue at which point they would literally shut you up. Yeah you could have gotten away with it, a breahtalizer, or even being taken in to do an in house test but all that would have wasted your time. Funny thing is if you had lied about where you were coming from he might not have even suspected you of drinking, what would he have done then?
and since when is a twitching eye evidense of drinking!

A. he could tell my friend was drunk and the road we were driving is the one from the bars we live really close. Lying would not have done any good, plus I knew I was under the limit but I had been drinking.

B. I don't see any point in lying to them, I knew what I was doing he knew what I was doing we try to complicate things with lies.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Well, you DO have power, if you choose to exercise it. It's always your decision how far you want to go. You just have to be willing to put up with the results.

I refuse sobriety tests (because I never drive after drinking). I've been asked to take them twice, both times I refused and demanded a breath or blood test. The first time it really shocked the officer and threw him off a bit. He started questioning me about all sorts of things and I think was trying to convince me to do a field test instead. I just told him, "Sorry officer, I don't drink and drive, so I won't fail a non-subjective test. I can't guarantee the same for something that you get to interpret." He finally had me blow and quickly sent me on my way. The second guy didn't even bat an eye, just grabbed a kit and got it over with, then sent me on. In my experiences dealing with law enforcment is a lot easier if you just exert your dominance at the beginning of the encounter. Once they smell fear or weakness they'll see what they can exploit.

It's the same for searches. I've been asked a few times to search the vehicle (which is a new thing, never used to come up). Every time it's just simply, "No. I don't believe you have a justifiable reason to search my vehicle. I will not consent and if you choose to act over my objections I assure you there will be legal action taken." So far they've never pressed it (though it often puts them in a bit of a bad mood). Again though, I don't ever do anything actually wrong so if they did search they wouldn't find anything and I'd be in the right. If I were actually doing something then I'd consent to the search, announce the situation, and take my lumps.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Well, you DO have power, if you choose to exercise it. It's always your decision how far you want to go. You just have to be willing to put up with the results.

I refuse sobriety tests (because I never drive after drinking). I've been asked to take them twice, both times I refused and demanded a breath or blood test. The first time it really shocked the officer and threw him off a bit. He started questioning me about all sorts of things and I think was trying to convince me to do a field test instead. I just told him, "Sorry officer, I don't drink and drive, so I won't fail a non-subjective test. I can't guarantee the same for something that you get to interpret." He finally had me blow and quickly sent me on my way. The second guy didn't even bat an eye, just grabbed a kit and got it over with, then sent me on. In my experiences dealing with law enforcment is a lot easier if you just exert your dominance at the beginning of the encounter. Once they smell fear or weakness they'll see what they can exploit.

It's the same for searches. I've been asked a few times to search the vehicle (which is a new thing, never used to come up). Every time it's just simply, "No. I don't believe you have a justifiable reason to search my vehicle. I will not consent and if you choose to act over my objections I assure you there will be legal action taken." So far they've never pressed it (though it often puts them in a bit of a bad mood). Again though, I don't ever do anything actually wrong so if they did search they wouldn't find anything and I'd be in the right. If I were actually doing something then I'd consent to the search, announce the situation, and take my lumps.

I like your way of thinking and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Seriously; you and I think exactly alike on the above two topics, and I do EXACTLY the same thing...except sometimes my big mouth gets the better of me and I'll ad-lib a bit.

"I don't consent to a random search of my vehicle. You have no probable cause. Me speeding is not probable cause. I know you need a warrant if I refuse...and I've got all night to wait. Do you, Sir?"

Me=clean cut, no warrants, no unpaid tickets, current license, tags, insurance, no vehicle violations like busted lights. IOW TOTALLY not probable cause.

 

[Garet Jax]

The biggest problem we have generally is that we don't know what we can and can't do legally.

Besides if we push too hard we might piss the cop off and just generally make our lives more difficult.

 

[acemcmac]

Note to self... refuse "field tests" that aren't blood or breath...

 

[vi edit]

Does anyone know, with blood tests, do they do some sort of calculation to "back date" the BAC to the time of the violation?

Depending on where you are and the time of day, it could take over an hour or two I would imagine to get into a hospital or wherever they draw the blood. If you were right on the border of being over the limit (like .09) that time may be what you need to make you "legal" again.

Do they do some sort of reverse calculation to say that if your BAC is .XX right now, 2 hours ago it was .YY?

 

[Pacemaker]

My uncle is my hero for this stuff. He got pulled over one day for "speeding". The funny thing was is that any other day my uncle would have been, but this day he knew that he was going to be at his destination before the people who lived there so he had set the cruise control at 5 under the speed limit.

The policeman pulls him over and tells him he was speeding and that he was going to give him a warning this time. My uncle looks at him and says, "Give me the <cuss word removed> ticket." The police officer is stunned and repeats that he is giving him a warning. My uncle says, "No, I want the ticket because I want you to explain to the judge why you harassed someone who set his cruise control at 5 under the speed limit."

The police officer stood there for a second and then went to his car and drove off. Later he told me what he did was stupid, but I still find it funny.


edit: scarily enough this same uncle got pulled over because he was weaving, and when the cop opened the door he fell out of the truck (he was too drunk to even sit up). when the officer asked him, "Why did you try to drive home like this?" He replied, "Well I couldn't walk it, cause I can't even stand" This being the 70's the cop laughed and let him go (not in the car of course). If that had happened now he would have been in real trouble.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Does anyone know, with blood tests, do they do some sort of calculation to "back date" the BAC to the time of the violation?

Depending on where you are and the time of day, it could take over an hour or two I would imagine to get into a hospital or wherever they draw the blood. If you were right on the border of being over the limit (like .09) that time may be what you need to make you "legal" again.

Do they do some sort of reverse calculation to say that if your BAC is .XX right now, 2 hours ago it was .YY?

That's a darn good question. I would imagine it would be difficult due to widely varying body weights and alcohol absorbtion type properties.

Then again, I suck at math, so who knows?

 

[marvdmartian]

While you may not have been legally drunk driving at the time you were pulled over, remember that some states have a DWI (driving while impaired) law as well, and he might well have gotten that one to stick, if you were exhibiting less than sober behavior. Sucks, but it's always possible.

As far as back-timing the BAC from a blood test, I'm pretty sure that's not legal. Reason being that they can't determine how fast your body gets rid of the alcohol, since some people process it through their system faster than others. In the old days, you could oftentimes have 2-3 hours between the time you were pulled over, and the time that a busy hospital emergency room could draw your blood for a BAC test. Nowadays, though, I'd imagine that the cops get more cooperation from the hospitals, and they get you stuck pretty quickly. Still, if given the choice, you're almost always better off asking for the blood test......but many states have gotten rid of that as a choice, and gone to testing you whichever method they want to.

Don't feel bad about the harassment. Just remember that cops are out there doing a pretty crappy job, and that someday you'll like likely be glad to see a cop doing his job, when you need him. A buddy of mine, way back in the 80's, got popped for a dui, when he passed every test that a cop gave him.....until he asked my buddy what the date was. My friend used to do a lot of supply stuff (we were in the navy), and worked with what's commonly known as julian dates. A julian date is basically a 4-digit number, where the first number is the year, and the 2nd thru 4th numbers are which day of the year it is. For example, today (August 24th) is 6236, since it's the 236th day of 2006. It just so happened that my buddy got pulled over in January of 1986, and when the cop asked him what the date was, he thought about it, remembered the julian date was 6023 (or something close to that), and told him it was JUNE 23rd!! OOPS!!!! The cop looked at him, and said, "don't you think it's a little cold for June?", and busted him on the spot. :roll:

 

[lokiju]

I remember as a youth getting pulled over with two guy friends and a female friend in the car, we were in my friends car.

Right off the bat my female friend just went insane like and started calling the cops stupid pigs and all sorts of other names which really shocked me since she was normally not like that, well long story short my friend had some pipe in his car or something like that so they cuff all three guys and take us in for questioning (released me and my other passenger friend) but didn't even do anything to my female friend, who was yelling and cussing at them the whole damn time!

I still wonder WTF they let her go and took me in

Only thing I can think is they didn't want to hear her shyte anymore than they had to :laugh:

 

[WolverineGator]

Seems like someone has failed to read their ATOT threads:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=38&threadid=1884118&enterthread=y

 

[TheSiege]

you should see the video on filecabi.net it should be on the front page or you can click on newest videos and it will be the the top 15. its a guy going into a police station to submit a complaint and comes out with a broken nose, i would post a link to the video but my work blocks the site.

there are ads on the right that might not be safe for work.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

Originally posted by: Yossarian451
We had been out at the bars and my friend had been drinking more than us and so I decided to drive his truck home. I had 3 beers in 4 hours and was completely fine to drive. About a mile from the house I saw a police vehicle swing around and start following me. At about a half block from the house he turned on his lights. I knew I was well under the limit and hadn't been doing anything wrong. He said that I might have been going 40, but he didn't clock me (it was a 30 zone and at most I could have been 35) and that the truck (not mine) had a light out above the license plate. He asked where we were coming from and I told him that we came from the northgate bars. He ran the information and then asked me to go through the field sobriety test.

A long story short but I recently dislocated my knee in a canyoning accident so I can't fully support my body weight on it. So after the test he tells me that I had failed the test but that he was going to let us just walk the 100 yards to the house since he thought that I was not fit to drive but didn't want to give me a ticket. Now I know that I was under the limit and had I have pressed him to give me a breathalizer I would have been well below the state limit of .08. But the fact of the matter is that he knows that presenting that situation no one is going to argue. I politely told him that I thought I had taken all of the precaution to be safe and I thought I had been fine to drive. He told me he was failing me for a twitch in my eye, which I always have, and my limp in a walk. I didn't argue but tried to understand his reasoning.

I guess the moral of the story is that when they know that they have nothing they will present you with a situation that is less than what they can screw you with and more than nothing, and guess what you will take that. He wasn't rude or anyting it is just that I completly felt like in the situation I was taken advantage of because he knew I had no real power to fight the situation and that if the repercusions were minimal to me he would get his way.

Since your friend was probably reeking from alcohol, the proper answer would have been " We are coming from the Northgate Bars, and I am the designated driver. I have not been drinking, and have one more person to drop off before going home." You would have gon on your merry way.

Does anyone know, with blood tests, do they do some sort of calculation to "back date" the BAC to the time of the violation?

Depending on where you are and the time of day, it could take over an hour or two I would imagine to get into a hospital or wherever they draw the blood. If you were right on the border of being over the limit (like .09) that time may be what you need to make you "legal" again.

Do they do some sort of reverse calculation to say that if your BAC is .XX right now, 2 hours ago it was .YY?

I think only the defense could use that argument. If you took a big pull off the whiskey bottle right before they pulled you over, and then they took a half hour before they tested you, then your BAC might have gone up since you were last driving. The prosecution could only use the samples they were able to collect.

 

[captains]

i dont think they can "back date" your BAC. I remember hearing that they do not let you go to the bathroom or drink water while they get the test ready. Also i remember hearing on the news of a big percentage of drunks being drivin to the hospital and admited for a BAC test, then when the officer leaves the person just walks out of hospital never having the test done

 

[IceBergSLiM]

fyi.......08 is the state limit they can arrest for you anything over .00 if they determine you were under the influence.

 

[RKS]

Originally posted by: BillyBatson
...
and since when is a twitching eye evidense of drinking!

Text

HGN Testing

Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus is an involuntary jerking of the eye that occurs naturally as the eyes gaze to the side. Under normal circumstances, nystagmus occurs when the eyes are rotated at high peripheral angles. However, when a person is impaired by alcohol, nystagmus is exaggerated and may occur at lesser angles. An alcohol-impaired person will also often have difficulty smoothly tracking a moving object. In the HGN test, the officer observes the eyes of a suspect as the suspect follows a slowly moving object such as a pen or small flashlight, horizontally with his or her eyes. The examiner looks for three indicators of impairment in each eye: if the eye cannot follow a moving object smoothly, if jerking is distinct when the eye is at maximum deviation, and if the angle of onset of jerking is within 45 degrees of center. If, between the two eyes, four or more clues appear, the suspect likely has a BAC of 0.08 or greater. NHTSA research found that this test allows proper classification of approximately 88 percent of suspects (Stuster and Burns, 1998). HGN may also indicate consumption of seizure medications, phencyclidine, a variety of inhalants, barbiturates, and other depressants.

 

[iron crotch]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
fyi.......08 is the state limit they can arrest for you anything over .00 if they determine you were under the influence.

Here in MA if you are under 21 you can be arrested for anything over .00, but if your legal age they cant do anything if your under the .08 limit.

 

[Tom]

So you were speeding, and operating an vehicle that did not meet the motor vehicle code, and you had been drinking.

But you got no ticket.

what are you complaining about ?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: BillyBatson
i know what you mean, they expect you to shut up and take what they give you or try and argue at which point they would literally shut you up. Yeah you could have gotten away with it, a breahtalizer, or even being taken in to do an in house test but all that would have wasted your time. Funny thing is if you had lied about where you were coming from he might not have even suspected you of drinking, what would he have done then?
and since when is a twitching eye evidense of drinking!

Police officers are trained to watch the movement of your eyes when following a moving object like a pencil. A drunk's eyes will not scan smoothly like a sober person's eyes will. This is a standard test and it's almost impossible for a drunk to scan smoothly.

 

[allisolm]

Originally posted by: Tom
So you were speeding, and operating an vehicle that did not meet the motor vehicle code, and you had been drinking.

But you got no ticket.

what are you complaining about ?

Exactly! He's lucky the officer bought his story (or at least let him slide even if he didn't believe the twitch/ limp explanation), since no one EVER lies to the police about their drinking.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: MichaelD

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Well, you DO have power, if you choose to exercise it. It's always your decision how far you want to go. You just have to be willing to put up with the results.

I refuse sobriety tests (because I never drive after drinking). I've been asked to take them twice, both times I refused and demanded a breath or blood test. The first time it really shocked the officer and threw him off a bit. He started questioning me about all sorts of things and I think was trying to convince me to do a field test instead. I just told him, "Sorry officer, I don't drink and drive, so I won't fail a non-subjective test. I can't guarantee the same for something that you get to interpret." He finally had me blow and quickly sent me on my way. The second guy didn't even bat an eye, just grabbed a kit and got it over with, then sent me on. In my experiences dealing with law enforcment is a lot easier if you just exert your dominance at the beginning of the encounter. Once they smell fear or weakness they'll see what they can exploit.

It's the same for searches. I've been asked a few times to search the vehicle (which is a new thing, never used to come up). Every time it's just simply, "No. I don't believe you have a justifiable reason to search my vehicle. I will not consent and if you choose to act over my objections I assure you there will be legal action taken." So far they've never pressed it (though it often puts them in a bit of a bad mood). Again though, I don't ever do anything actually wrong so if they did search they wouldn't find anything and I'd be in the right. If I were actually doing something then I'd consent to the search, announce the situation, and take my lumps.

I like your way of thinking and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I didnt use to be like this, but i am now. However I have only been asked for searches, a year ago I had nothing in the car and all day to wait. They let me go. Frankly i am just fed up for all the times that when i was a teen they searched my car cause i had a surfboard on top or surfing stickers on my car....

 

[ailetlvo]

This thread is pretty good; I've always wondered whether or not police have the right to search a vehicle if they pull you over.

So he needs a warrant without probable cause? What if he does have probable cause? Then can he search the vehicle? I live in CA.

 

[MisterJackson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8mko8G8iiY