Police officers have quit their jobs across the nation.

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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,589
17,900
146
She may or may not have been mistaken about the reason for the bad service. I agree that bad service is common at fast food places. My "favorite" is when they hand me fries which have clearly been sitting for over a half hour after frying and are stone cold. And unsalted!

I am really addressing the general principal of being rude to someone based on a blanket assumption about a group to which they belong. Making assumptions about people based on group affiliation has many names. We call it racism in one context, sexism in another, etc. But it is all the same idea. People should be judged as individuals, not by presumed characteristics about groups to which they belong.

Sure, that's ideal. However, I think it's unfair to turn a blind eye to state run oppression operating under the same mental processes, and not expect the same out of the oppressed.

People who work in fast food specifically are often the target of ridicule, or stereotyping, or both. People treat them horribly at times, you see it on this forum when the topic of minimum wage comes up.

Other food establishments, even the "nicer" ones I worked at were just as filthy in the workers areas as fast food places.

You're point is certainly valid, it's just not surprising that what goes around comes around.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,187
14,084
136
Sure, that's ideal. However, I think it's unfair to turn a blind eye to state run oppression operating under the same mental processes, and not expect the same out of the oppressed.

Which is like saying, it's unfair to expect people to not assume a given black person is a criminal because there are, after all, higher crime rates among black people.

I think what you've said is sure, I'm right, but only in a perfect world. But the reality of this world is that too many people will excuse stereotyping when in their mind it is the right group being stereotyped and not excuse it when it's the wrong one.

And sure, I too expect but do not excuse the stereotyping. Sadly, it's because I've come to expect disappointing behavior from humans in general.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,589
17,900
146
I think what you've said is sure, I'm right, but only in a perfect world. But the reality of this world is that too many people will excuse stereotyping when in their mind it is the right group being stereotyped and not excuse it when it's the wrong one.

And sure, I too expect but do not excuse the stereotyping. Sadly, it's because I've come to expect disappointing behavior from humans in general.

I'm just gonna flip these for my response. I'll start by saying that we agree. Stereotyping, by far (IMO), is one of the biggest problems in our world today. It makes it easy for any single group to dehumanize others. It's easily perpetuated, and once a stereotype is established is difficult to shake. From religious people groups to government entities to political parties, you can see it everywhere. It's easy for the human mind to do, makes us "feel good", justified, better than, etc...

I didn't realize what I was reinforcing with my own stereotyping until my early 30's. Looking back on my youngerself, it's sad what I was. All we can do is try to be better.

Which is like saying, it's unfair to expect people to not assume a given black person is a criminal because there are, after all, higher crime rates among black people.

A lot can be said about that statement, as it's used regularly to further perpetuate stereotypes. Just a few bad apples, sound familiar?

My statement could be applied that way, but on the surface only. When you start to unpack something like that, the argument won't be the same as what I said. The deeper you go into it, the less it will be like my statement. It's often used by white supremacists to further reinforce their shitty views as well.

What you said is used by authoritarians to justify police misconduct, over and over.

Back to the original video, there's no reference to the McD's workers ethnic background. I made no reference to it either. I spoke strictly of oppression for a reason. While the black population may be the low hanging fruit for the police to get their numbers with, the militarization of the police and subsequent "comply or die" mentality affects other people groups as well. The further up the social status ladder, the less it affects people.

What we're seeing in the video is a woman who's apparently shocked that plebes would harbor such resentment for a police officer. She wants to be told "thank you" more.

And back to my original post, she should clarify specifically why she should be held in higher esteem when police unions have been protecting officers from misconduct accusations forever. She can discard her blue whenever she wants.

Sometimes I'm abrupt and lack good communication skills. I'm not attacking you, just so you know. We lack any additional information or context for that video. There's few hypotheticals mulling around in my brain but none will be corroborated, as I doubt any additional info will be heard about it
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,364
136
TV show Heroes had the "One of us, One of them" rule. (normal person and an enhanced one)
Perhaps the Patrol car would benefit from same rule with Peace officer and Social Worker or Community Coordinator?
A cop has a shit ton of training and various tools available to them. Gun is just one of the tools. It seems that it is the first tool and most common one being used.
If you want to be in Military join the Army.
The Army has standards.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
3,318
126
aww poor cops they can`t go out and harass a person of color without somebody looking over their back....poor cops!! Hahahhaa resign!! You are probably one of the bad cops anyways!!
I hear Cops make good shoe salesmen.....
 
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Nov 17, 2019
10,493
6,273
136
I hear Cops make good shoe salesmen.....

al-bundy-best-of-schuhladen-L-9StExw.jpeg


Damn. I'm not a cop any more. I don't have a gun. I can't shoot her.
 

TeeJay1952

Golden Member
May 28, 2004
1,540
191
106
According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019. Of these, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 41 officers died in accidents. Comprehensive data tables about these incidents and brief narratives describing the fatal attacks are included in Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2019, released today.
Deaths From Police Harm Disproportionately Affect People of Color
There is not comprehensive government data on the topic, but an independently compiled database found that more than 1,000 people died as a result of police harm in 2019.

TLTR 1000+ vs 89
 
Nov 17, 2019
10,493
6,273
136
1,000 is low since there are no formal reporting requirements. It likely doesn't include people who fell down the stairs several times or bashed their own head into car doors while cuffed, or fell off buildings or drowned while fleeing, .... you know, ... details, details ....
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,199
4,392
136
1,000 is low since there are no formal reporting requirements. It likely doesn't include people who fell down the stairs several times or bashed their own head into car doors while cuffed, or fell off buildings or drowned while fleeing, .... you know, ... details, details ....
Or hung themselves in their cell while under suicide watch?
 
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DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
489
126
Or died because they had heart or respiratory issues that had nothing to do with a knee choking them out.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,008
2,838
136
What has she done specifically that warrants sympathy? How many of her peers has she turned in, reported for misconduct, whatever. I'm not ready to say she's right or wrong, but it seems like she wants sympathy, based on what?

Besides the fact that garbage food is garbage, and prior to this you could never see your food being made anyways. I worked food service for 8 years, and performed repairs afterwards in an IT gig. Food establishments are the most gross places to visit for repairs.

She's a person. And all I heard her asking for is to be treated as one. I can't imagine what a well-intentioned officer with a reasonable amount of emotional intelligence would be going through right now. I know nothing of her particular service record, but if that matters to you in order to provide sympathy, I suggest you go on her Twitter and ask.

it hilarious actually, poor thing is all traumatized from having to wait at mcd's

Yikes.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

-MLK

There's nothing incompatible with seeing cops as human and still demanding desperately needed changes. Personally I think the cops with the most humanity to call upon would be the most helpful allies in producing this change.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,450
31,803
136
I find I have zero problem with the attrition of officers who feel like being held responsible for their actions, up to and in including outright murder, is simply too big a burden. We should ensure they don't join other forces they think will permit those things.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
28,912
41,316
136
is the guilt finally getting to them now that most of the hero worship is gone?
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,644
5,216
136
That quote from Romney about "self-deportation" comes to mind.

Can't say I'm sorry, unless we're pushing out the good cops and only leaving the most untalented and unqualified behind.

Still tho, if you're unsure you can't do you job without murdering someone, time to find a new line of work.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,199
4,392
136
is the guilt finally getting to them now that most of the hero worship is gone?
No, it is just that they are afraid the extra attention is going to shine a spotlight on their crimes. I'm willing to bet that nearly all of the ones quitting have a long history of disciplinary issues, and something they are afraid that the public (or a prosecutor that does not have their back) will find out. They are getting out in the hopes that if they are gone no one will care enough to investigate them.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,712
27,258
136
aww poor cops they can`t go out and harass a person of color without somebody looking over their back....poor cops!! Hahahhaa resign!! You are probably one of the bad cops anyways!!
I hear Cops make good shoe salesmen.....
How soon before some conservative asshole tries to make recording police illegal?
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,455
10,786
136
Saw this on FB. Seems relevant m

"Imagine: Its 2025. You're getting pulled over. A community representative approaches to let you know you have a taillight out. They don't need your license and registration, they don't write you a fix-it ticket. You're back on the road in less than five minutes. You swing by the store and grab a new light, not because you're afraid of what the city will do to you, but because you respect your community and know that having all your lights working is part of the driving privilege.
Your neighbors got into a loud spat a few weeks ago and without fear or hesitation, called a domestic assistance number. A counselor arrived and was able to talk the couple down and suggest solutions for their disagreement. No one was hurt, the kids participated in the discussion, and it's been quiet ever since.
Your friend has been struggling with addiction and you fear they might be a danger to themselves or others. You call a substance abuse specialist and they talk you through ways to help your friend get treatment. They offer to send an agent out to speak with your friend directly and provide information on harm reduction centers in your area.
Black and brown people are no longer being exploited through tickets and fines to pay for police. Trust is slowly being fostered in the community.
When you see a police officer, you smile and wave rather than feel a fearful chill or avoid eye contact. You know that they're being held accountable by the citizens they have sworn to protect. They've undergone psychological evaluations to ensure that they took the job for the right reasons. They're slowly regaining respect in the community and are trained to be protectors, not warriors. (Sheepdogs, not wolves)
Teachers are being paid a living wage and students are being given more time, attention, and education. Books are up to date and classrooms are optimized to keep up with technology.
Trump is out of office.
You cant remember the last time the name of a murdered black person was used as a hashtag.
Casual racism is no longer tolerated. The KKK has been classified as a terrorist organization. The Confederate flag isnt flown and has been removed from any official state flags or insignias. Most Confederate monuments have been taken down and placed in storage or museums.
You trust the police to deal with crime the same way you trust firefighters to put out fires.
That's what 'defund the police' looks like. It'll be different for every department. If the corruption is bad enough, dissolution of the department may be necessary. Some departments may just need reform. But what we've seen in the last few weeks shows how overreaching and power-drunk many officers are. We asked too much of them and then called them heroes despite evidence to the contrary. We let them think that they could get away with anything, including murder. Its time for change."

Unfortunately, in your idyllic scenario...real life would creep in...the social worker responding to the domestic...would find the wife and kids shot to death and he/she would also be shot...and toe cops would be needed anyway.
Things like "broken taillight" stops end up catching lots of criminals with outstanding warrants...and, unfortunately, also lead to police chases that can kill innocent bystanders. Better to invent a device that the police can use to disable a car temporarily...although, I have no doubt the criminal element will find a way to block/shield a car from such a device.
Would such a society be nice? Damned sure would...but it ain't realistic.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,479
1,854
136
So a bunch of cops decided they don't like the trend where people actually hold them accountable, and see that they'll have to work in a world where they can't just kill black people Judge Dredd style?

Is this a bad thing? Could this finally be a way to get rid of all those bad apples? Guess we'll not have to worry about that security guard shortage! Maybe they'll all join Blackwater and go off to other shithole countries where they can stomp darkies with impunity.

Or, are these the good apples quitting out of solidarity with the protests? That wouldn't be so good!

Who knew that doing a job where you had the choice to deal death (or not) would be difficult. Who knew that decades of treating certain neighborhoods like they contained nothing but terrorists would have repercussions. Who knew that giving military toys to cops, inflaming their inner John Wayne was going to be a negative thing.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,199
4,392
136
Unfortunately, in your idyllic scenario...real life would creep in...the social worker responding to the domestic...would find the wife and kids shot to death and he/she would also be shot...and toe cops would be needed anyway.
Things like "broken taillight" stops end up catching lots of criminals with outstanding warrants...and, unfortunately, also lead to police chases that can kill innocent bystanders. Better to invent a device that the police can use to disable a car temporarily...although, I have no doubt the criminal element will find a way to block/shield a car from such a device.
Would such a society be nice? Damned sure would...but it ain't realistic.

Wow, your view of the world is kind of off. You realize that the overwhelming majority (like 99.99%) of domestic calls turn out to not be triple homicides, right? Most of the time it is just an argument that got overly heated. That is the exact scenario that a social worker would be much more effective than a police office that is just going to escalate the situation even further because they only real tool they have is a weapon.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,455
10,786
136
Wow, your view of the world is kind of off. You realize that the overwhelming majority (like 99.99%) of domestic calls turn out to not be triple homicides, right? Most of the time it is just an argument that got overly heated. That is the exact scenario that a social worker would be much more effective than a police office that is just going to escalate the situation even further because they only real tool they have is a weapon.

Of course I realize that...it's that .1% that kills the social worker. Better to train the cop to deal with those kinds of issues than to send an unarmed civilian.