Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage

mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
The media perpetuates the notion that the police are disproportionately killing African Americans, but is that really true?

This is an interesting article that I have known about for awhile, and I continue to see it posted after the aforementioned tragedies transpire, yet I haven't really seen anyone adequately rebut the findings.

Most people want to compare the African American population, about ~13%, with the number of gun deaths. However, is that really the correct way to look at the situation? Cops don't pick citizens randomly from the population. Rather, they are sent to situations that require resolutions, often crimes. Now, if you look at crime statistics you will see that when police are called into a violent crime, the suspect is disproportionately African American. In fact, it's about 8 times higher based on population size, or nearly equal to such altercations that take place with white Americans.

Now, if we go by this statistic, rather the population as a whole, we see that the ratios now favor White Americans being killed by the police.

Am I missing something here? To me, this seems like extremely compelling evidence that cops aren't unstable power tripping racists, but rather merely unstable power tripping idiots.


NOTES:
It seems silly I have to clarify these things, but to ensure the thread isn't derailed by strawmen, I think it would be prudent to make a few statements. First off, I want to say that the data is woefully lacking, because one party doesn't like to keep adequate records. Secondly, I am not a racist trying to justify the actions of police that shoot unarmed people. Third, I am not trying to garner sympathy for white people, and say they are disproportionately the victims. Fourth, I am not saying some cops aren't racist. And finally, we seriously need to change the way we screen, hire, and train police officers.

White Americans are the racial majority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17.1% of the population, making up the largest ethnic minority.


Sources:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...e-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/?page=all

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

http://www.copinthehood.com/2015/04/killed-by-police-2-of-3-race.html
 
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maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
(grabs popcorn and waits for the show)

You can't use facts to fight perception. Besides, it's truly not about race so much as stereotypes and have/have nots in my humble opinion

I too support your view that cops need better integration and training before entering the environment. I take that one step furtherand add that they need mentorship by older, more experienced cops, and other pillars in their respective communities.

M
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
(grabs popcorn and waits for the show)

You can't use facts to fight perception. Besides, it's truly not about race so much as stereotypes and have/have nots in my humble opinion

I too support your view that cops need better integration and training before entering the environment. I take that one step furtherand add that they need mentorship by older, more experienced cops, and other pillars in their respective communities.

M
That plus there honestly is a big disparity in likelihood of being killed by cops AND of being unjustly killed by cops. If I'm twice as likely to be unjustly killed by cops, the fact that more people not like me are killed overall (but at much lower rates) isn't much comfort. I would much prefer that I be at the lowest level.

I do recognize that there are valid reasons why this differential exists, but those are based on groups and people are first and foremost individuals. The black man shot in Walmart for playing with a BB gun wasn't a gangbanger or criminal. Neither was the kid being a dick with an Airsoft pistol in the park. Yet their skin color played a major role in how police responded - to their deaths. It's highly unlikely that a white or Asian man would have been shot down in either case.

I superficially resemble the very worst of dangerous, radical white supremacists, but if cops customarily reacted to me as though I was the chief enforcer for the Aryan Nation, if they saw white skin and not the lack of a shaved head and tattoos, I'd be pretty pissed about it.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
The media perpetuates the notion that the police are disproportionately killing African Americans, but is that really true?

This is an interesting article that I have known about for awhile, and I continue to see it posted after the aforementioned tragedies transpire, yet I haven't really seen anyone adequately rebut the findings.

Most people want to compare the African American population, about ~13%, with the number of gun deaths. However, is that really the correct way to look at the situation? Cops don't pick citizens randomly from the population. Rather, they are sent to situations that require resolutions, often crimes. Now, if you look at crime statistics you will see that when police are called into a violent crime, the suspect is disproportionately African American. In fact, it's about 8 times higher based on population size, or nearly equal to such altercations that take place with white Americans.

Now, if we go by this statistic, rather the population as a whole, we see that the ratios now favor White Americans being killed by the police.

Am I missing something here? To me, this seems like extremely compelling evidence that cops aren't unstable power tripping racists, but rather merely unstable power tripping idiots.


NOTES:
It seems silly I have to clarify these things, but to ensure the thread isn't derailed by strawmen, I think it would be prudent to make a few statements. First off, I want to say that the data is woefully lacking, because one party doesn't like to keep adequate records. Secondly, I am not a racist trying to justify the actions of police that shoot unarmed people. Third, I am not trying to garner sympathy for white people, and say they are disproportionately the victims. Fourth, I am not saying some cops aren't racist. And finally, we seriously need to change the way we screen, hire, and train police officers.

White Americans are the racial majority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17.1% of the population, making up the largest ethnic minority.


Sources:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...e-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/?page=all

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States


What you might be missing is proportion.

"An analysis of the available FBI data by Vox's Dara Lind shows that US police kill black people at disproportionate rates: they accounted for 31 percent of police killing victims in 2012, even though they made up just 13 percent of the US population. Although the data is incomplete, since it's based on voluntary reports from police agencies around the country, it highlights the vast disparities in how police use force.

"Black teens were 21 times as likely as white teens to be shot and killed by police between 2010 and 2012, according to a ProPublica analysis of the FBI data. ProPublica reported: "One way of appreciating that stark disparity, ProPublica's analysis shows, is to calculate how many more whites over those three years would have had to have been killed for them to have been at equal risk. The number is jarring — 185, more than one per week."

police_shooting_by_race.0.png


And the study that Vox links:

"Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.

The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.

One way of appreciating that stark disparity, ProPublica's analysis shows, is to calculate how many more whites over those three years would have had to have been killed for them to have been at equal risk. The number is jarring – 185, more than one per week."

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
126
It's not just about Numbers, but Reasons for why many of these shootings took place to begin with.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,201
14,877
136
The OP clearly doesn't understand the issue. Police brutality and disproportionate profiling/arrests of black people are not the same thing. The OP illustrates precisely why minimizing black lives matter with all lives matters is a stupid thing to do.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
I think the fact remains that the police kill far too many suspects. I recognize that their jobs are difficult and potentially dangerous, but too many examples have come to light where the shooting was due to convenience or incompetence, and the officer faced no corrective action.
That's not acceptable, regardless of the race of the suspect.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
The OP clearly doesn't understand the issue. Police brutality and disproportionate profiling/arrests of black people are not the same thing. The OP illustrates precisely why minimizing black lives matter with all lives matters is a stupid thing to do.

I think he does understand. I'm just not sure if his statistics are correct. He's pointing out that interactions between police and the people arrested aren't simply random - they're based on crime rates.

I'll use fake numbers to attempt to illustrate what the OP is trying to say (fake numbers to make the math easier and thus the point stand out):

Let's say there are 100 crimes that result in a police presence. 80 of those crimes are committed by black individuals, 20 of those crimes are committed by white individuals. If the police kill 8 of the black individuals, that's a 1 in 10 rate. If the police kill 3 of the white individuals, that's *more* than a 1 in 10 rate. So, whites are killed disproportionately in situations where there's an interaction with the police, rather than disproportionately among the general population. The latter is the point everyone, even the OP seems to be clear on.

Personally, I've very skeptical that this is true.


edit: from one of the sources the OP posted, which no one bothered to read:
“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” he said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

I'm still skeptical - I think that ignores several other factors, such as cases where it's the white guy who decides to go out in a blaze of glory and more or less commits suicide by cop. I have no idea how "suicide by cop" could be eliminated from that analysis though.
 
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shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
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I think he does understand. I'm just not sure if his statistics are correct. He's pointing out that interactions between police and the people arrested aren't simply random - they're based on crime rates.

I'll use fake numbers to attempt to illustrate what the OP is trying to say (fake numbers to make the math easier and thus the point stand out):

Let's say there are 100 crimes that result in a police presence. 80 of those crimes are committed by black individuals, 20 of those crimes are committed by white individuals. If the police kill 8 of the black individuals, that's a 1 in 10 rate. If the police kill 3 of the white individuals, that's *more* than a 1 in 10 rate. So, whites are killed disproportionately in situations where there's an interaction with the police, rather than disproportionately among the general population. The latter is the point everyone, even the OP seems to be clear on.

Personally, I've very skeptical that this is true.


edit: from one of the sources the OP posted, which no one bothered to read:


I'm still skeptical - I think that ignores several other factors, such as cases where it's the white guy who decides to go out in a blaze of glory and more or less commits suicide by cop. I have no idea how "suicide by cop" could be eliminated from that analysis though.

Well ignoring your overtly racist white guy comment...

The solution is pretty easy to see.

Some percentage of stops by police are unjustified, I'll call them "bullshit stops". Black people are more likely to be the target of these bullshit stops. Since they are unjustified stops, the 'victim' is very unlikely to be killed by the police.

So on an per encounter basis, since many stops of black people are bullshit stops, they're not as likely to be killed on any individual stop. But since they are stopped so much, their overall kill rate by police goes up.

One thing that contradicts the above is Victorian Grey's chart, which shows that a white person attacking a police officer is more likely to be killed than a black person attacking a police officer. I would bet that many police are more reluctant to use force, in general, on black people than on white people for very obvious reasons.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
A while back somebody posted this statistic on FB.

NATIONWIDE-BLACK-DEATHS.jpg


If you weight the deaths by murder conviction rates then the numbers are pretty much spot on with the population proportions. I'm not saying this is a valid way to think about this but I did find it interesting that the numbers came out so close.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
edit: from one of the sources the OP posted, which no one bothered to read:


I'm still skeptical - I think that ignores several other factors, such as cases where it's the white guy who decides to go out in a blaze of glory and more or less commits suicide by cop. I have no idea how "suicide by cop" could be eliminated from that analysis though.
I found the rates to be pretty much spot on from murder conviction rates.

Why would you think whites would be more prone to commit suicide by cop? Or are you saying this may be a reason behind this stat?
 

x26

Senior member
Sep 17, 2007
734
15
81
That plus there honestly is a big disparity in likelihood of being killed by cops AND of being unjustly killed by cops. If I'm twice as likely to be unjustly killed by cops, the fact that more people not like me are killed overall (but at much lower rates) isn't much comfort. I would much prefer that I be at the lowest level.

I do recognize that there are valid reasons why this differential exists, but those are based on groups and people are first and foremost individuals. The black man shot in Walmart for playing with a BB gun wasn't a gangbanger or criminal. Neither was the kid being a dick with an Airsoft pistol in the park. Yet their skin color played a major role in how police responded - to their deaths. It's highly unlikely that a white or Asian man would have been shot down in either case.

I superficially resemble the very worst of dangerous, radical white supremacists, but if cops customarily reacted to me as though I was the chief enforcer for the Aryan Nation, if they saw white skin and not the lack of a shaved head and tattoos, I'd be pretty pissed about it.

You "Really" Do live in a Fantasy Land.

This ignores the fact that black violent-crime rates are far higher than those of whites. According to the Department of Justice, blacks committed 52.5 percent of the murders in America from 1980 to 2008, when they represented 12.6 percent of the population.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/02/myth-of-the-cop-killing-epidemic/
 
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x26

Senior member
Sep 17, 2007
734
15
81
http://nypost.com/2016/01/02/myth-of-the-cop-killing-epidemic/

This ignores the fact that black violent-crime rates are far higher than those of whites. According to the Department of Justice, blacks committed 52.5 percent of the murders in America from 1980 to 2008, when they represented 12.6 percent of the population.

To hear the media tell it, America is in the grip of an unprecedented crime wave, an orgy of wanton murder in which heavily armed thugs randomly gun down innocent unarmed people, some of them teens, just for sport.

Except that these homicidal goons are wearing the blues and badges of American police departments.

It’s the narrative that’s given rise to the protest movement Black Lives Matter and to a growing public mistrust of the police in general. From Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., to the recent shooting of a middle-aged woman and a teen in Chicago, the body count seemingly keeps rising, exacerbating racial tensions and keeping the nation on edge. And each incident is breathlessly reported by a media determined to show that America remains deeply, irredeemably racist.

Problem is, it’s simply not true.

Last week, the Washington Post published a study of the police shootings that took place in 2015. Likely they intended the story to be shocking — as on Dec. 24, 965 people were killed by police! Instead, the report quells the notion that trigger-happy cops are out hunting for civilian victims, especially African-Americans. Among its key findings:
•White cops shooting unarmed black men accounted for less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings.
•In three-quarters of the incidents, cops were either under attack themselves or defending civilians. In other words, doing their jobs.
•The majority of those killed were brandishing weapons, suicidal or mentally troubled or bolted when ordered to surrender.
•Nearly a third of police shootings resulted from car chases that began with a minor traffic stop.

The moral of this story is: Don’t point a gun at the cops and don’t run when they tell you stop, and you’re likely to survive. Since the population of the US is about 318 million people, a thousand deaths at the hands of police works out to 1 in 318,000. You have a better chance of being killed in a violent storm (1 in 68,000) or slipping in the tub (1 in 11,500) than being shot by a cop, no matter what color you are.

But even these figures are deceptive. On those 965 killed, only 90 were unarmed, and the majority of those were white. (And that doesn’t take into account other extenuating circumstances besides a weapon that would have caused a police officer to fire.)

Still, the “killer cop” narrative refuses to die, and the Washington Post decided to throw fuel on the racial fire with context-free statements like these: “Although black men make up only 6 percent of the US population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year.”

This ignores the fact that black violent-crime rates are far higher than those of whites. According to the Department of Justice, blacks committed 52.5 percent of the murders in America from 1980 to 2008, when they represented 12.6 percent of the population.

This certainly does not excuse cases of police misconduct. Bad cops should be investigated and tried. The death of Walter Scott in South Carolina last spring — shot in the back while fleeing a white police officer after a routine traffic stop — resulted in the indictment of the cop, who is now awaiting trial. And the killing of Quintonio LeGrier and Bettie Jones in Chicago on Dec. 26, after the troubled LeGrier allegedly became “combative” with officers, cries out for further investigation.

But these incidents don’t prove that the “real problem” is cops. This isn’t an “epidemic.” And it isn’t racist to suggest that some perspective is warranted here.

Yet, encouraged by liberal politicians, the rhetoric of protesters has become more heated, poisoning relations between local police and the folks they serve. Most tragically, it’s resulted in the murders of police officers, such as NYPD Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos, killed in a Brooklyn ambush just over a year ago.

Against the numbers cited by the Washington Post, what about this one: The worst neighborhoods in Chicago — say, West Garfield Park, where gangs run rampant — have a higher murder rate (116.7 per 100,000) than world murder capitals like Honduras (90.4).

But no, best not to mention. That only distracts from the real problem — the cops trying to stop it.
 

x26

Senior member
Sep 17, 2007
734
15
81
http://nypost.com/2016/01/02/myth-of-the-cop-killing-epidemic/

To hear the media tell it, America is in the grip of an unprecedented crime wave, an orgy of wanton murder in which heavily armed thugs randomly gun down innocent unarmed people, some of them teens, just for sport.

Except that these homicidal goons are wearing the blues and badges of American police departments.

It’s the narrative that’s given rise to the protest movement Black Lives Matter and to a growing public mistrust of the police in general. From Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., to the recent shooting of a middle-aged woman and a teen in Chicago, the body count seemingly keeps rising, exacerbating racial tensions and keeping the nation on edge. And each incident is breathlessly reported by a media determined to show that America remains deeply, irredeemably racist.

Problem is, it’s simply not true.

Last week, the Washington Post published a study of the police shootings that took place in 2015. Likely they intended the story to be shocking — as on Dec. 24, 965 people were killed by police! Instead, the report quells the notion that trigger-happy cops are out hunting for civilian victims, especially African-Americans. Among its key findings:
•White cops shooting unarmed black men accounted for less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings.
•In three-quarters of the incidents, cops were either under attack themselves or defending civilians. In other words, doing their jobs.
•The majority of those killed were brandishing weapons, suicidal or mentally troubled or bolted when ordered to surrender.
•Nearly a third of police shootings resulted from car chases that began with a minor traffic stop.

The moral of this story is: Don’t point a gun at the cops and don’t run when they tell you stop, and you’re likely to survive. Since the population of the US is about 318 million people, a thousand deaths at the hands of police works out to 1 in 318,000. You have a better chance of being killed in a violent storm (1 in 68,000) or slipping in the tub (1 in 11,500) than being shot by a cop, no matter what color you are.

But even these figures are deceptive. On those 965 killed, only 90 were unarmed, and the majority of those were white. (And that doesn’t take into account other extenuating circumstances besides a weapon that would have caused a police officer to fire.)

Still, the “killer cop” narrative refuses to die, and the Washington Post decided to throw fuel on the racial fire with context-free statements like these: “Although black men make up only 6 percent of the US population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year.”

This ignores the fact that black violent-crime rates are far higher than those of whites. According to the Department of Justice, blacks committed 52.5 percent of the murders in America from 1980 to 2008, when they represented 12.6 percent of the population.

This certainly does not excuse cases of police misconduct. Bad cops should be investigated and tried. The death of Walter Scott in South Carolina last spring — shot in the back while fleeing a white police officer after a routine traffic stop — resulted in the indictment of the cop, who is now awaiting trial. And the killing of Quintonio LeGrier and Bettie Jones in Chicago on Dec. 26, after the troubled LeGrier allegedly became “combative” with officers, cries out for further investigation.

But these incidents don’t prove that the “real problem” is cops. This isn’t an “epidemic.” And it isn’t racist to suggest that some perspective is warranted here.

Yet, encouraged by liberal politicians, the rhetoric of protesters has become more heated, poisoning relations between local police and the folks they serve. Most tragically, it’s resulted in the murders of police officers, such as NYPD Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos, killed in a Brooklyn ambush just over a year ago.

Against the numbers cited by the Washington Post, what about this one: The worst neighborhoods in Chicago — say, West Garfield Park, where gangs run rampant — have a higher murder rate (116.7 per 100,000) than world murder capitals like Honduras (90.4).

But no, best not to mention. That only distracts from the real problem — the cops trying to stop it.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,506
15,737
136
Yup its a myth....in your perfect world.
They'd never chase a guy down, arrest him on questionable evidence, handcuff him, put him unsecured in a van that they should know others have been injured in while unsecured and drive around the city for a bit.

Nope never.


I'm far from a Cop hater however its tough to justify some of the sloppy behavior.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
Kind of falls apart when you consider that many European countries have something roughly on the order of a 100-fold lower rate of cop shootings per capita. I'm not against cops shooting "bad guys" btw, even that case with the unarmed DUI guy being shot which was clearly ridiculous to call an accident, I have no ethical issue with it happening. The problem is that with cell phone cameras and cloud storage and other technological marvels, we can easily capture illegal acts committed by cops, for which they receive a slap on the wrist. Even if it's a very small minority that attack or kill unjustifiably, their partners that lie for them, the district attorneys that look the other way when prosecuting, and the judges that give the most lenient sentences possible altogether make it a massive civil rights issue. The idea that you can call yourself free in a country where the police are effectively a protected class that can break into your home, shoot you, and say "Whoops, wrong house, we thought you were dealing pot" is a joke. Even if it's extremely unlikely to happen, that it's allowed to happen at all is unacceptable.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Kind of falls apart when you consider that many European countries have something roughly on the order of a 100-fold lower rate of cop shootings per capita. I'm not against cops shooting "bad guys" btw, even that case with the unarmed DUI guy being shot which was clearly ridiculous to call an accident, I have no ethical issue with it happening. The problem is that with cell phone cameras and cloud storage and other technological marvels, we can easily capture illegal acts committed by cops, for which they receive a slap on the wrist. Even if it's a very small minority that attack or kill unjustifiably, their partners that lie for them, the district attorneys that look the other way when prosecuting, and the judges that give the most lenient sentences possible altogether make it a massive civil rights issue. The idea that you can call yourself free in a country where the police are effectively a protected class that can break into your home, shoot you, and say "Whoops, wrong house, we thought you were dealing pot" is a joke. Even if it's extremely unlikely to happen, that it's allowed to happen at all is unacceptable.

Control for demographics, drug use, criminal activity, and you get the fact that cop shootings per capita plummet. There is a small section of the population that causes the vast majority of cop issues. Fix that and you'll fix the cop issues.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,394
383
126
"The majority of those killed were brandishing weapons, suicidal or mentally troubled or bolted when ordered to surrender."

So running away or being mentally troubled is enough reason to shoot somebody? I don't think that's right at all. If they are running away they are not an imminent threat at all.

Maybe its just bad writing and should have been written:
"The majority of those killed were brandishing weapons while mentally troubled or bolting"
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,476
523
126
Yup its a myth....in your perfect world.
They'd never chase a guy down, arrest him on questionable evidence, handcuff him, put him unsecured in a van that they should know others have been injured in while unsecured and drive around the city for a bit.

Nope never.

I'm far from a Cop hater however its tough to justify some of the sloppy behavior.

He never said cop misconduct didn't happen, and he said it should be punished;
This certainly does not excuse cases of police misconduct. Bad cops should be investigated and tried. The death of Walter Scott in South Carolina last spring — shot in the back while fleeing a white police officer after a routine traffic stop — resulted in the indictment of the cop, who is now awaiting trial. And the killing of Quintonio LeGrier and Bettie Jones in Chicago on Dec. 26, after the troubled LeGrier allegedly became “combative” with officers, cries out for further investigation.

But you don't even read it, and just post gibberish in return.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
He never said cop misconduct didn't happen, and he said it should be punished;

But you don't even read it, and just post gibberish in return.

I think my favorite part of the piece was where he brushed off 90 dead unarmed people as not a huge problem but then lamented the deaths of two police officers as a tragedy caused by mean liberals complaining about all the other dead people.

I guess that's what you get from a breitbart person. Not to mention that those numbers are probably significantly under reported given the misconduct that's been uncovered recently.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,476
523
126
I think my favorite part of the piece was where he brushed off 90 dead unarmed people as not a huge problem but then lamented the deaths of two police officers as a tragedy caused by mean liberals complaining about all the other dead people.

I guess that's what you get from a breitbart person. Not to mention that those numbers are probably significantly under reported given the misconduct that's been uncovered recently.

I didn't research the numbers. I was just commenting on the fact that the exact thing he posted about was covered in the post he complained about.

I do think there is a police problem, but I also think it is not as bad as perpetuated by the media most of the time. They gin up things, and flat out lie with no repercussions. Cops caught doing wrong should be punished so harshly that other cops will not want to do it. Cops should be punished harsher than regular civilians for the same crime in my opinion. Hit them where it hurts, take away their pensions if they have one, as well as losing their job and doing time if the crime demands it. They know the law better than most, and used their power to abuse it. Make them be a example for other cops.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
I didn't research the numbers. I was just commenting on the fact that the exact thing he posted about was covered in the post he complained about.

I do think there is a police problem, but I also think it is not as bad as perpetuated by the media most of the time. They gin up things, and flat out lie with no repercussions. Cops caught doing wrong should be punished so harshly that other cops will not want to do it. Cops should be punished harsher than regular civilians for the same crime in my opinion. Hit them where it hurts, take away their pensions if they have one, as well as losing their job and doing time if the crime demands it. They know the law better than most, and used their power to abuse it. Make them be a example for other cops.

I generally agree. Police misconduct makes for good headlines. Additionally, in recent times a lot of it has been coming out and so it's feeding a cycle that probably gives it outsized coverage as compared to the problem.

I just wish we would take the investigation of police misconduct out of the hands of the police. That alone would do wonders to restore confidence in the system IMO.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,476
523
126
I generally agree. Police misconduct makes for good headlines. Additionally, in recent times a lot of it has been coming out and so it's feeding a cycle that probably gives it outsized coverage as compared to the problem.

I just wish we would take the investigation of police misconduct out of the hands of the police. That alone would do wonders to restore confidence in the system IMO.

I agree mostly. I don't have a problem with police investigating their own (IA), as long as an outside agency does a parallel investigation too. I'd like to see what the results are that way. Not for every instance, but certainly for serious crimes. I imagine employing an outside agency for every alleged police misconduct would be expensive.

But yes it does make good headlines, even when wrong. There are several examples where the media is completely wrong, makes things worse, and nothing happens to them. From Time magazine making a cover picture of Brown on his knees with his hands up facing the cops, as if that really happened. To this posted just a week ago.

Peraza, who has worked for the sheriff's office for 14 years, faces up to 30 years in prison if convicted in the fatal shooting of Jermaine McBean, who was black. Peraza is white.

Looking at him, and his last name, I don't think anyone with common sense will think he is white, but Hispanic instead. But the headline is not as good if the cop isn't white and the suspect black. That is further fueling the fires, making things worse than they are in reality.