Police Arrest Journalist and Delete Some of his Pics and vids, but not all the way

[Jaskalas]

So much for the 4th ammendment.

No there's no police state.

Those are two contradictory statements. What are we without a Bill of Rights? Without Civil Rights? The Police State is obvious.

 

[hal2kilo]

Those are two contradictory statements. What are we without a Bill of Rights? Without Civil Rights? The Police State is obvious.

It's called sarcasm. Tap that meter.

 

[monovillage]

In my mind, it started with the new laws created for the "WAR ON DRUGS". Those conspiracy laws that allow the government to take all of your assets before you are found guilty. You know the cops love all of this. How do you think they get all the money for the paramilitary SWAT teams. Do you remember any SWAT teams being in existence before the "WAR ON DRUGS"

So much for the 4th ammendment.

No there's no police state.

Taking assets and using them for the same government organization that took them in the first place and closely connected to the government department that's responsible for prosecuting you. Kind of like forced bribery that's legal.

 

[waggy]

In my mind, it started with the new laws created for the "WAR ON DRUGS". Those conspiracy laws that allow the government to take all of your assets before you are found guilty. You know the cops love all of this. How do you think they get all the money for the paramilitary SWAT teams. Do you remember any SWAT teams being in existence before the "WAR ON DRUGS"

So much for the 4th ammendment.

No there's no police state.

Swat teams are getting insane. Many places are buying tanks. WTF do they need a damn tank for.

I am against seizure myself. Seems the goverment gets a tad bit to greedy with it. they keep coming up with reasons to seize cars and homes.

 

[JTsyo]

People *should* roll their eyes at statements like that. Study what real police states both currently and in history look like and make a proper and objective comparison, then see if you arrive at the same conclusion.

- wolf

To add to this. If the police can rough you up without getting into trouble, that's not really a police state. Police state implies more that the police would come after you for your political views. I don't see much of that in the US at all. Even the TSA is not a step towards a police state. Though I admit when DHS was established I had misgivings on their role and future growth.

 

[Triumph]

Swat teams are getting insane. Many places are buying tanks. WTF do they need a damn tank for.

I am against seizure myself. Seems the goverment gets a tad bit to greedy with it. they keep coming up with reasons to seize cars and homes.

This is as much of a threat as anything. We used to talk about the military industrial complex. Well nowadays we have the police industrial complex. There is a lot of money in "security," either through accessories, personnel, or investigation. And as we all know, once you start the flow of money from the government, it's a faucet that's nearly impossible to turn off.

 

[sm625]

Police dont even care anymore. They will taze you right in front of 5 cameras, and smash four of the cameras. If they get caught the worst that happens is they sit in at a desk for 2 weeks earning full pay.

 

[Zargon]

Swat teams are getting insane. Many places are buying tanks. WTF do they need a damn tank for.

I am against seizure myself. Seems the goverment gets a tad bit to greedy with it. they keep coming up with reasons to seize cars and homes.

no one is buying a tank.

APC's sure, and AFAIK all those are de-weaponized. Not that I disagree, that alot of SWAT teams are becoming too para-military, but seriously. not a tank

they are all uparmored ruggedized vehicles like the bearcat

 

[woolfe9999]

In my mind, it started with the new laws created for the "WAR ON DRUGS". Those conspiracy laws that allow the government to take all of your assets before you are found guilty. You know the cops love all of this. How do you think they get all the money for the paramilitary SWAT teams. Do you remember any SWAT teams being in existence before the "WAR ON DRUGS"

So much for the 4th ammendment.

No there's no police state.

Actually the confiscation laws are more a 5th Amendment (due process) concern than a 4th Amendment concern. But no, the 4th Amendment is alive and well. It got scaled back in very specific and limited ways by the Patriot Act, but it has way more teeth than it ever did for the first 170 years after the Constitution was ratified. The point being, specific situations and particular anecdotes aside, we are less of a police state compared to what we were in the past, and much less of one than any generally recognized police state anywhere else in the world, currently or throughout history. "Police state" isn't really something you have or do not have. Every state has law enforcement which is active to some degree or other. It's all a question of degree.

I don't object to concerns about individual situations like the one described here, or to concerns about particular laws like the ones you discuss above. In fact, I share your concerns about those laws. It's the generalized remarks that are unsupported and constitute extraordinary claims for which no extraordinary proof has been submitted that I have a problem with.

 

[woolfe9999]

To add to this. If the police can rough you up without getting into trouble, that's not really a police state. Police state implies more that the police would come after you for your political views. I don't see much of that in the US at all. Even the TSA is not a step towards a police state. Though I admit when DHS was established I had misgivings on their role and future growth.

In Stalinist Russia, literally millions were rounded up and either executed or sent to the Gulag solely for their actual or alleged opposition to/criticism of the regime. In fact, it was much worse than that. The regime would round up random people who they knew were innocent of even criticizing the regime and put them through show trials just to terrorize the population by threat of arbitrary punishment. If the innocent family member or neighbor could be prosecuted, then no one was safe. Even in Nazi Germany, you knew you were safe if you didn't belong to a persecuted "inferior" class and didn't publicly speak out against the regime.

I challenge anyone to make an objective comparison between the situations in those countries and what we have here in the U.S.

 

[dmcowen674]

Police Arrest Journalist and Delete Some of his Pics and vids, but not all the way

Video of the arrest here: http://www.pixiq.com/article/here-is-the-recovered-video-police-deleted-of-my-arrest



It sure doesn't look like he's resisting in the choppy video. It'll be interesting to see everything that's recovered. It sure looks ugly so far.

OP did not mention this was an Occupy Protest.

There will be a whole lot more of this as the U.S. is entering it's next Revolution now in progress.

 

[monovillage]

I've already said I think the police officer acted beyond her authority and broke the law, but I don't have any sympathy for the whiny little maggot of a "journalist" either.

 

[waggy]

no one is buying a tank.

APC's sure, and AFAIK all those are de-weaponized. Not that I disagree, that alot of SWAT teams are becoming too para-military, but seriously. not a tank

they are all uparmored ruggedized vehicles like the bearcat

pft.

call them APC's or whatever. they are damn tanks without the big gun. they do not need such shit.

 

[Lonbjerg]

pft.

call them APC's or whatever. they are damn tanks without the big gun. they do not need such shit.

No they are not.
AFV (that n00b's call "tanks") are used for figthing other AFV/APC/infantry.
Usually (today) witha 120 mm cannon as primary gun,

APC's are used for transporting troops on the battlefield and fire-support..with the norm being a 20 mm machine cannon as primary weapon.

Go read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_fighting_vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_personnel_carrier

 

[Ninjahedge]

Lon, you missed the point.

What he is saying is that we do not need them for "law enforcement".

They are more paramilitary vehicles than domestic law enforcement. Ramping up our loadout for our local enforcement details is paramount to creating a mini-army or spec-ops division that dances dangerously close to martial law.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Lon, you missed the point.

What he is saying is that we do not need them for "law enforcement".

They are more paramilitary vehicles than domestic law enforcement. Ramping up our loadout for our local enforcement details is paramount to creating a mini-army or spec-ops division that dances dangerously close to martial law.

Well, after Waco, no one can claim you donj't need APC's...religious nuts with guns..add to that other right wing groups...and people from Texas...then I would want to have APC's too...those folks are nutters...and armed.

 

[monovillage]

Well, after Waco, no one can claim you donj't need APC's...religious nuts with guns..add to that other right wing groups...and people from Texas...then I would want to have APC's too...those folks are nutters...and armed.

In Waco the religious nuts with guns were the FBI.

 

[Zargon]

pft.

call them APC's or whatever. they are damn tanks without the big gun. they do not need such shit.

they arent even close to being TANKS. seriously. armor != tank.
don't be so blatantly purposefulyl ignorant. you cant just keep calling it tank and think that makes it a tank. Its essentially an armored SUV that will take a few .50cal BMG hits before its DOA

Lon, you missed the point.

What he is saying is that we do not need them for "law enforcement".

They are more paramilitary vehicles than domestic law enforcement. Ramping up our loadout for our local enforcement details is paramount to creating a mini-army or spec-ops division that dances dangerously close to martial law.

they are used more often to aide S&R in really bad weather than anything else, or as a shield during barracaded subject stuff ETC since they repel rifle rounds.

if you think LEO's have no use for something immune ro rifle rounds you are crazy.

also local LEO's are the #1 point of contact for any real threat.

 

[Perknose]

In Waco the religious nuts with guns were the FBI.

No, the religious nuts with guns were the religious nuts with guns holed up in the compound.

The FBI and the ATF were the Keystone Kops running around outside with the heavy ordnance.

My long dead Uncle Ed was ATF. Back in that day, I wasn't even aware that the ATF had their own police/paramilitary arm, so I always assumed he manned a desk. He was a decorated WWII combat vet, though, so . . .

 

[monovillage]

No, the religious nuts with guns were the religious nuts with guns holed up in the compound.

The FBI and the ATF were the Keystone Kops running around outside with the heavy ordnance.

My long dead Uncle Ed was ATF. Back in that day, I wasn't even aware that the ATF had their own police/paramilitary arm, so I always assumed he manned a desk. He was a decorated WWII combat vet, though, so . . .

Well, after all those kids were killed and watching the FBI/ATF trying to justify their actions i'm sure I saw lots of them saying GOD, I wish this was over without too much blame splashing on me

 

[Ninjahedge]

Well, after Waco, no one can claim you donj't need APC's...

Oh, you mean the religious cult that killed themselves after they were assaulted?

Yeah, that worked out great.

religious nuts with guns..add to that other right wing groups...and people from Texas...then I would want to have APC's too...those folks are nutters...and armed.

Um, you can bring in other forces, like the NATIONAL GUARD to help in special situations. You do NOT arm the local cops like that.


ESPECIALLY when many municipalities are struggling to afford these guys in the first place.

 

[monovillage]

Oh, you mean the religious cult that killed themselves after they were assaulted?

Yeah, that worked out great.
Um, you can bring in other forces, like the NATIONAL GUARD to help in special situations. You do NOT arm the local cops like that.
ESPECIALLY when many municipalities are struggling to afford these guys in the first place.

To avoid Posse Comitatus the military only supplied 2 Abrams tanks along with other hardware to the FBI/ATF and trained them how to use them, they didn't actually "take part" in the siege.
If you're only slightly unhappy by what happened in Oakland to #Occupy you should be outraged by what the police did in Waco.

 

[JSt0rm]

i love that these cops were so stupid as to think deleting something means its gone. hahahah.

 

[Jhhnn]

To avoid Posse Comitatus the military only supplied 2 Abrams tanks along with other hardware to the FBI/ATF and trained them how to use them, they didn't actually "take part" in the siege.
If you're only slightly unhappy by what happened in Oakland to #Occupy you should be outraged by what the police did in Waco.

You forget that 4 BATF agents were killed when attempting to execute a search warrant, which changes things. No cops have been killed in Occupy Oakland.

The Davidians were a cult of persecution, and a rerun of Jonestown. The BATF handled it poorly from the start, but their intention was obviously not to kill the Davidians- they did that themselves.

All of which has squat to do with the incident at hand. Cops depend on having enhanced credibility in court, of being trained to be more believable than the rest of us to a jury by dint of appeal to authority. If there's no contrary evidence, they generally win, which is why they attempted to delete the guy's pics...

 

[monovillage]

You forget that 4 BATF agents were killed when attempting to execute a search warrant, which changes things. No cops have been killed in Occupy Oakland.

The Davidians were a cult of persecution, and a rerun of Jonestown. The BATF handled it poorly from the start, but their intention was obviously not to kill the Davidians- they did that themselves.

All of which has squat to do with the incident at hand. Cops depend on having enhanced credibility in court, of being trained to be more believable than the rest of us to a jury by dint of appeal to authority. If there's no contrary evidence, they generally win, which is why they attempted to delete the guy's pics...

It's so cool that when it's someone you despise that it's OK for the government to use tanks and grenades on them.