Police and the expectation of privacy in public

[Kadarin]

Posting this to give it some more exposure:

http://www.pixiq.com/article/MIami Beach Police Ordered Videographer At Gunpoint To Hand Over

Miami Beach police did their best to destroy a citizen video that shows them shooting a man to death in a hail of bullets Memorial Day.

First, police pointed their guns at the man who shot the video, according to a Miami Herald interview with the videographer.

Then they ordered the man and his girlfriend out the car and threw them down to the ground, yelling “you want to be fucking paparazzi?”

Then they snatched the cell phone from his hand and slammed it to the ground before stomping on it. Then they placed the smashed phone in the videographer's back pocket as he was laying down on the ground.

And finally, they took him to a mobile command center where they snapped his photo and demanded the phone again, then took him to police headquarters where they conducted a recorded interview with him before releasing him.

But what they didn’t know was that Narces Benoit had removed the SIM card and hid it in his mouth, which means the video survived.

There's a Slashdot link with some discussion: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/06...unpoint-To-Hand-Over-Phone-For-Recording-Cops

My opinion is that the police do not have the right to destroy that guy's property (something about illegal search and seizure). It's also somewhat scary that the mental attitude of law enforcement lately appears to be that they feel they have carte blanche to use whatever force they feel like (i.e. the Arizona SWAT team that killed the ex Marine).

This is a pretty disturbing story, and it will be interesting to see how the videographer proceeds from here.

 

[HAL9000]

Since when do SIM Cards store video files?!

 

[ProfJohn]

Watch another video on youtube. Pretty amazing when the cops open fire on the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZbHIAzU2sU&feature=player_embedded#at=72

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Since when do SIM Cards store video files?!

Probably was an SD card and was improperly communicated as a SIM.

 

[HAL9000]

Probably was an SD card and was improperly communicated as a SIM.

I thought that after posting.

 

[ProfJohn]

Police say the chase Benoit and Davis saw began around 16th Street after Herisse hit a Hialeah officer with his car during a traffic stop and then peeled off down Collins Avenue, hitting or nearly hitting four other officers before skidding to a stop amid gunfire near 13th Street.
Police say they received reports that Herisse was shooting from his car, and on Wednesday they found a black Berretta 92-F semiautomatic pistol in his Hyundai.
Police also learned Thursday that he is believed to be the gunman in a November armed robbery at a BP gas station in which a clerk was shot in the face. Police say the clerk identified Herisse in a photo lineup after detectives recognized the slain 22-year-old in The Miami Herald.


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/...sses-said-they-were-forced.html#ixzz1OS4SXadc

Sounds like the dead guy was a POS to begin with.

The video will be interesting when it shows up.

 

[wuliheron]

Miami's a tough town with a reputation for bad cops. These days you can automatically upload video to the internet as you film. There is even a new app that allows anyone who wants to watch whatever you are filming on their own phone. Some speculate that violent crime in public is about to become history.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

So what is the whole story?

Edit: NVM ProJohn gave more details.

So that's were those shots came from in the beginning of the video.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Police expectation of privacy in public? Absolutely zero. What would be the reason for police to NOT want video? Obviously their abuses of power. I am of the mind that the more citizens with cameras the better. Those police officers who act according to the law have nothing to worry about.

 

[theeedude]

Miami's a tough town with a reputation for bad cops. These days you can automatically upload video to the internet as you film. There is even a new app that allows anyone who wants to watch whatever you are filming on their own phone. Some speculate that violent crime in public is about to become history.

Police will try to intimidate people by charging those who upload these videos as retribution, this has already happened. Bottom line is it cost a cop nothing to accuse you of something you didn't do, while it could cost you your life savings to defend yourself.

 

[davmat787]

What gets me is that the police appeared to have zero worries about smashing the phone, knowing that fellow officers would most likely join in, or at the very least look the other way. They took him to the mobile command center, where there was probably multiple levels of chain of command present implying the officer knew he would not be in trouble for his actions before hand. There does not seem to be any self policing of the police anymore. Of course no justice will come of this, and no one will be fired, assuming this is all true as presented.

WTF have the police become?

 

[Ronstang]

WTF have the police become?

Stormtroopers. It is sad but I no longer think that Police Officers are anyone to respect by default anymore. I don't even trust them anymore. I have seen way too much BS over the years. They think they are above the law.

 

[Zebo]

http://www.gandhicam.org/app/android saves you from getting that metal taste in your mouth from sim card

 

[davmat787]

Stormtroopers. It is sad but I no longer think that Police Officers are anyone to respect by default anymore. I don't even trust them anymore. I have seen way too much BS over the years. They think they are above the law.

Pretty much how I feel now days as well, and I am a law and order respect the police kind of guy, or I should say I used to be.

So what is the root problem here? These stories seem fairly wide spread across the US. Maybe the police departments are only attracting a certain power hungry mindset?

 

[wuliheron]

Police will try to intimidate people by charging those who upload these videos as retribution, this has already happened. Bottom line is it cost a cop nothing to accuse you of something you didn't do, while it could cost you your life savings to defend yourself.

The War on Crime, the prison building, three strikes and you're out, and now the suspension of constitutional rights is turning the US into a police state. A quick search brought up an entire website dedicated to bad cops:

http://www.copblock.org/

However, even the cops can't stop people from videoing everything in sight with cheap camera phones and automatically publishing it on the web. The physicist David Brinn speculated that soon enough people will use programs that recognize violence and automatically record everything.

 

[Pulsar]

While I completely understand why the cops reacted that way, it's obviously unacceptable.

Frankly, the people who are responding here from their armchairs with BS about the cops being storm troopers and the like can blow it out their ass.

This car is driving down the street shooting up other cars and people. Can 90% of the posters here, for even one second, say they understand the immense tension that results from having to walk the tight rope of NOT firing on this guy and giving him a chance to stop, but knowing he's got a weapon and is already using it? (I know we have some ex-cops and military folks here... exclude yourselves from the above generalization of course).

The cops stood outside that car putting their lives at risk for a total piece of shit because it's what they do everyday. They're not perfect, and if the story is true on how this reporter was treated then some people need to lose their jobs. However, the folks doing the generalizing and demonizing of most cops who work the beat are the real pieces of shit here. No, I'm not a cop. I do know that those guys have a job I'd never want.

But hey. It's the internet. Enjoy your anonymity while /most/ of them are out there every day trying to protect you. The life expectancy of a police officer is LOWER than the normal retirement age of 65. By quite a bit (It's actually around 59). Think about that for a minute.

 

[Zorba]

So what is the root problem here? These stories seem fairly wide spread across the US. Maybe the police departments are only attracting a certain power hungry mindset?

Adults are just like kids, if you let them get away with something they will do it and worse again and again. Police almost always get away with it, so they continue to get worse.

To Pulsar's point, it isn't all police or even close to a majority, but there are quite a few bad apples out there and they should loose their jobs and many of them should be behind bars. The vast majority of police though are great people and are good cops.

 

[Lithium381]

We can probably agree that the majority of cops are good, but that there are a portion that are bad. I've been lucky in that I typically avoid the attention of law enforcement and when I do they have been pleasant. (other than getting a speeding ticket, which i deserved, that wasn't pleasant.

The problem is that those who are bad are rarely punished, and when they are, it's disproportionate to if a "normal citizen" had done something.

I'm all for filming the cops. For good cops, there is absolutely no issue. For the bad ones.....it's proof that they've conducted themselves poorly. Several states have laws against filming public officers in duty..... I can't imagine the justification for that.

 

[Kadarin]

This car is driving down the street shooting up other cars and people. Can 90% of the posters here, for even one second, say they understand the immense tension that results from having to walk the tight rope of NOT firing on this guy and giving him a chance to stop, but knowing he's got a weapon and is already using it? (I know we have some ex-cops and military folks here... exclude yourselves from the above generalization of course).

The cops stood outside that car putting their lives at risk for a total piece of shit because it's what they do everyday.

When I posted this thread, I deliberately did not comment on whether or not the police had a justification to fire on the vehicle (I was not there, so I clearly don't know all of the circumstances). I am only referring to the police feeling that they have the right to confiscate and destroy the guy's phone.

 

[Kadarin]

Stormtroopers. It is sad but I no longer think that Police Officers are anyone to respect by default anymore. I don't even trust them anymore. I have seen way too much BS over the years. They think they are above the law.

On hearing about enough incidents like this, once could assume that the US is gradually turning into a full scale version of the famous Stanford Prison Experiment.

 

[Broheim]

We can probably agree that the majority of cops are good

don't count on most of american AT'ers agreeing with you on that.

 

[Siddhartha]

While I completely understand why the cops reacted that way, it's obviously unacceptable.

Frankly, the people who are responding here from their armchairs with BS about the cops being storm troopers and the like can blow it out their ass.

This car is driving down the street shooting up other cars and people. Can 90% of the posters here, for even one second, say they understand the immense tension that results from having to walk the tight rope of NOT firing on this guy and giving him a chance to stop, but knowing he's got a weapon and is already using it? (I know we have some ex-cops and military folks here... exclude yourselves from the above generalization of course).

The cops stood outside that car putting their lives at risk for a total piece of shit because it's what they do everyday. They're not perfect, and if the story is true on how this reporter was treated then some people need to lose their jobs. However, the folks doing the generalizing and demonizing of most cops who work the beat are the real pieces of shit here. No, I'm not a cop. I do know that those guys have a job I'd never want.

But hey. It's the internet. Enjoy your anonymity while /most/ of them are out there every day trying to protect you. The life expectancy of a police officer is LOWER than the normal retirement age of 65. By quite a bit (It's actually around 59). Think about that for a minute.

Hopefully you will never be in a situation where the cops think you are a danger to them. Because too much bad cop behavior has been and can be justified using your rationalization.

 

[Double Trouble]

While I completely understand why the cops reacted that way, it's obviously unacceptable.

Frankly, the people who are responding here from their armchairs with BS about the cops being storm troopers and the like can blow it out their ass.

This car is driving down the street shooting up other cars and people. Can 90% of the posters here, for even one second, say they understand the immense tension that results from having to walk the tight rope of NOT firing on this guy and giving him a chance to stop, but knowing he's got a weapon and is already using it? (I know we have some ex-cops and military folks here... exclude yourselves from the above generalization of course).

The cops stood outside that car putting their lives at risk for a total piece of shit because it's what they do everyday. They're not perfect, and if the story is true on how this reporter was treated then some people need to lose their jobs. However, the folks doing the generalizing and demonizing of most cops who work the beat are the real pieces of shit here. No, I'm not a cop. I do know that those guys have a job I'd never want.

But hey. It's the internet. Enjoy your anonymity while /most/ of them are out there every day trying to protect you. The life expectancy of a police officer is LOWER than the normal retirement age of 65. By quite a bit (It's actually around 59). Think about that for a minute.

I don't have any doubt that 95% of the law enforcement community are generally the "good guys", while the other 5% are bad apples like you have in any organization.

My problem isn't with the actions of the cops with regard to the guy running and shooting and all that. My problem is with the behavior towards the completely law abiding citizen recording. Even worse, it's not just a case of a bad apple cop on a power trip -- national and state police organizations have all come out in favor of laws prohibiting such recordings. There is no reasonable explanation of why they'd all support something like that other than to basically cover their asses when one of theirs does something wrong. Apparently to them, preventing someone from recording brutality is more important than preventing the brutality itself.

Very disturbing to say the least, and unfortunately it's not just a bad apple since FOP and other such organizations appear to have contempt for citizens rights when it comes to recordings etc.

And that's coming from one of the most "law and order" kind of guys you'll ever meet. I'm not into the whole "the po-po is evil" kind of bullshit.

 

[Darwin333]

While I completely understand why the cops reacted that way, it's obviously unacceptable.

Frankly, the people who are responding here from their armchairs with BS about the cops being storm troopers and the like can blow it out their ass.

This car is driving down the street shooting up other cars and people. Can 90% of the posters here, for even one second, say they understand the immense tension that results from having to walk the tight rope of NOT firing on this guy and giving him a chance to stop, but knowing he's got a weapon and is already using it? (I know we have some ex-cops and military folks here... exclude yourselves from the above generalization of course).

The cops stood outside that car putting their lives at risk for a total piece of shit because it's what they do everyday.

You are mostly right about the above but I don't believe that is the point of this thread.

They're not perfect, and if the story is true on how this reporter was treated then some people need to lose their jobs.

Destruction of property, false imprisonment, assault and battery, harassment, and I bet someone else can come up with a slew of conspiracy type charges and they should "lose their jobs"? Umm no, they should be arrested and tried in court like the rest of us would if we had done the same thing. I used to be a roughneck, its a really shitty job and I guarantee the life expectancy is lower. I also used to be a roofer and I am pretty sure the on the job death rate is higher but that never gave me the right to violate the rights of innocent people nor did it even give me a good excuse. I can understand fuck ups (wrong guy, wrong house etc) but that wasn't what this was. This was intimidating an innocent person after destroying his property, assaulting him and then arresting/interrogating him.

However, the folks doing the generalizing and demonizing of most cops who work the beat are the real pieces of shit here. No, I'm not a cop. I do know that those guys have a job I'd never want.

You are correct in that most cops are good and decent people but I will tell you what the problem is.

The problem is the "Blue Line" bullshit. The good cops literally protect the bad ones because of the bullshit blue line stuff. When you protect the assholes who you know for a fact are fucking over innocent people you get grouped in with those assholes. Don't like it then do the right thing and take out your own trash instead of actively preventing it. I frankly don't give a shit about the entire "we might make an honest mistake and will need the other guys to back us up so we don't cross the blue line" bullshit.

But hey. It's the internet. Enjoy your anonymity while /most/ of them are out there every day trying to protect you. The life expectancy of a police officer is LOWER than the normal retirement age of 65. By quite a bit (It's actually around 59). Think about that for a minute.

You think about that shit while you watch your wife get the shit beat out of her because some cop had a bad day and didn't like the fact that she was filming them or she said the wrong the thing to them or when she calls for help and they decide to fuck with her instead or any number of fucked up things they have done to innocent people (not the honest mistake fucked up shit but the blatantly criminal actions such as the ones currently in question). Then you think about the fact that those good cops are going to protect the bad cops that did said fucked up shit to your wife. You seriously wouldn't have a problem with that?

 

[wuliheron]

I don't have any doubt that 95% of the law enforcement community are generally the "good guys", while the other 5% are bad apples like you have in any organization.

Its actually a significantly higher then average percentage. Being around all these lowlifes day in and day out, thinking the way they think, etc. is not good for the soul.