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Poland officially not pro-gay anymore.

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126

Near as I can tell, the Catholics are running things, and they dont want gay protections. It strikes me a little odd that one of the countries worst abused by Nazis in the 20th century, would ignore minority rights in the 21st century.
 

FaaR

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2007
1,057
408
136
This is what happens when you vote for fascists. They pick a weak target to blame for whatever as distraction, and then the dehumanization and demonization campaign sets in.

"National unity" cannot be achieved without a price being paid by the weakest in society. Such is always the way it has been on the far right.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,053
6,029
136
You really seem confused by the simplest things recently.
Finding the modern world a bit complicated and scary? Maybe its time to sign over your legal obligations to someone and retreat to some sort of sheltered housing?
If he moves to Poland he won't have to worry about teh guys anymore either.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,655
2,168
126
You really seem confused by the simplest things recently.
Finding the modern world a bit complicated and scary? Maybe its time to sign over your legal obligations to someone and retreat to some sort of sheltered housing?
It just never occurred to me that minority's included pretty much everyone. I was taught that minorities generally referred to racial and ethnic distinctions. It looks like were at the point where point where the majority are minority's.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
26,760
3,744
126
It just never occurred to me that minority's included pretty much everyone. I was taught that minorities generally referred to racial and ethnic distinctions. It looks like were at the point where point where the majority are minority's.
Well like I said, you seem confused by modern life.
Two options; get bitter and confused by it or try to come to terms and understand it.
Or we can get you put into some sort of home for the befuddled and confused. (assuming you have the insurance for that, I'm unsure how it works in the States if you can't afford it. We might have to feed you to the bears.)
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
Homosexuals are pretty much always a minority in any country you find them. It wouldnt necessarily matter except they frequently get treated like shit. Sometimes murdered.
If they get treated with respect then nobody thinks of them as a minority, just people. And they live normal healthy lives and dont have to worry about dying on the side of a road in the country.
I cant think of too many countries that treat them well. Maybe Holland?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,655
2,168
126
You really seem confused by the simplest things recently.
Finding the modern world a bit complicated and scary? Maybe its time to sign over your legal obligations to someone and retreat to some sort of sheltered housing?
Minorities: racial, ethnic, class, religious, linguistic or gender and sexual.
Who's left? By that definition I don't know anyone that isn't a minority, I'm a minority. I don't know one single person that doesn't fit comfortably into one of those category's. Apparently, I have a very diverse group of friends.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,503
3,260
126
The religious nut cases in Poland like the ones in the US feel their religious beliefs are what make them worthwhile and special. The fear of the loss of that belief in their culture is terrifying to them and the terrified are always conservatives and attempt to preserve. Nutcases are all members of the one and only true faith, and of which there are so many.
 
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Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,706
1,013
126
Poland is a prime example of the underlying fragility of a democratic system and how fast it can collapse. Maybe because nearly every democracy is under severe fire in the last few years, but to me surprisingly little attention has been paid to the near total collapse of citizen's rights in Poland. Perhaps because people like Trump cheer it on instead of imposing sanctions?
 

FirNaTine

Senior member
Jun 6, 2005
521
78
91
Homosexuals are pretty much always a minority in any country you find them. It wouldnt necessarily matter except they frequently get treated like shit. Sometimes murdered.
If they get treated with respect then nobody thinks of them as a minority, just people. And they live normal healthy lives and dont have to worry about dying on the side of a road in the country.
I cant think of too many countries that treat them well. Maybe Holland?
Country wide, I’m not sure of, but my brother in law lives fine as an openly gay man in London, and from what he’s said UK as a whole is not bad.

London is also apparently one of the better/more popular areas for homosexual people to live in the world. He moved there long term to work in finance. With Brexit, his company was pulling a number of folks out of London, and Poland was most likely where he would have gone. However, he chose to stay in London for now, and has their version of a green card/permanent residency.
 

FaaR

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2007
1,057
408
136
Poland is a prime example of the underlying fragility of a democratic system and how fast it can collapse.
They have also had just one generation growing up under democracy, that's not a very stable foundation for a society unfortunately. Most Poles (shouldn't it be Polanders?) still remember the way life was under the old police state dictatorship which used to rule them. It was bad, for most of them, but in a society where economic hardship and uncertain future feels threatening - and perhaps incomprehensibly so, some people will look back at those days of stability with rose-colored glasses.

It's the same feels that carried Vladdy Putin to power in Russia after the economic collapse in the 1990s.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,945
2,256
136
They have also had just one generation growing up under democracy, that's not a very stable foundation for a society unfortunately. Most Poles (shouldn't it be Polanders?) still remember the way life was under the old police state dictatorship which used to rule them. It was bad, for most of them, but in a society where economic hardship and uncertain future feels threatening - and perhaps incomprehensibly so, some people will look back at those days of stability with rose-colored glasses.

It's the same feels that carried Vladdy Putin to power in Russia after the economic collapse in the 1990s.
It's not as if Poland had much of a tradition of democracy before the Soviet era. I don't know that this is about looking back at 'those days' with rose-tinted glasses. If anything the current situation is just the traditional pre-communist Polish autocracy and theocracy coming back in reaction to its suppression during the Soviet era. These are pre-Soviet Polish values in resurgence.

Same seems to be the case with Hungary.
 

FaaR

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2007
1,057
408
136
It's not as if Poland had much of a tradition of democracy before the Soviet era. I don't know that this is about looking back at 'those days' with rose-tinted glasses.
Basically no part of Europe had any tradition of democracy such as we know it today in the days before the Russian revolution. Some countries had parliaments, but they also had kings with formal power, and in my country for example women lacked the right to vote.

What I meant though wasn't looking back at the pre-Soviet era (which only a tiny fraction of society can still do today, you'd have to be well over 100 years old to have any genuine memories from that period), but looking back with nostalgia at the actual Soviet era. It sounds crazy, but some people actually do that. It's the good ole "the devil you know" factor, plus, like I said, rose-colored glasses. The past tends to seem brighter and better once you've put some distance to it. I know; I feel the same way myself about the '70s and '80s. :)
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,945
2,256
136
Basically no part of Europe had any tradition of democracy such as we know it today in the days before the Russian revolution. Some countries had parliaments, but they also had kings with formal power, and in my country for example women lacked the right to vote.

What I meant though wasn't looking back at the pre-Soviet era (which only a tiny fraction of society can still do today, you'd have to be well over 100 years old to have any genuine memories from that period), but looking back with nostalgia at the actual Soviet era. It sounds crazy, but some people actually do that. It's the good ole "the devil you know" factor, plus, like I said, rose-colored glasses. The past tends to seem brighter and better once you've put some distance to it. I know; I feel the same way myself about the '70s and '80s. :)
Some countries had more of a democratic tradition to fall back to than did others. The Czech Republic was far more democratic pre-Soviet era than was Poland or Hungary. The latter was an ally of Nazi Germany, after all.

And the cultural traditions of places like Poland were always conservative. The response to the Soviet domination was to embrace still more enthusiastically, Catholic conservatism as a marker of national identity.

Across Eastern Europe, including East Germany, there seems to have been a reaction against the (I guess, to be fair, hypocrtical) Soviet emphasis on 'internationalism' and opposition to (a certain kind of) imperialism, leading to a rise in racist and xenophoblic sentiment.

Nostaliga for the Soviet era itself seems to me to be confined to East Germany. Germans almost managed to make that system work - everywhere else it was compromised by being mixed with traditional nationalist tensions from the start. The Poles and Hungarians seem to me to be looking back before that era.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
Minorities: racial, ethnic, class, religious, linguistic or gender and sexual.
Who's left? By that definition I don't know anyone that isn't a minority, I'm a minority. I don't know one single person that doesn't fit comfortably into one of those category's. Apparently, I have a very diverse group of friends.
OK so I already explained this which means you are clearly trolling and everybody in this thread needs to ignore you.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
Country wide, I’m not sure of, but my brother in law lives fine as an openly gay man in London, and from what he’s said UK as a whole is not bad.

London is also apparently one of the better/more popular areas for homosexual people to live in the world. He moved there long term to work in finance. With Brexit, his company was pulling a number of folks out of London, and Poland was most likely where he would have gone. However, he chose to stay in London for now, and has their version of a green card/permanent residency.
Thats good to hear.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,503
3,260
126
Poland is a prime example of the underlying fragility of a democratic system and how fast it can collapse. Maybe because nearly every democracy is under severe fire in the last few years, but to me surprisingly little attention has been paid to the near total collapse of citizen's rights in Poland. Perhaps because people like Trump cheer it on instead of imposing sanctions?
The American government is in the service of the 1% whose world wide interests are in making money not in preserving the freedom of the individual. A system based on personal greed and how far and how much an individual can make will corrupt all democracies everywhere opening the world up to those who seek not the capacity to earn money themselves but to take it from those who already have made it themselves. Every parasite that rises to dominate will evolve its own parasites. Self hate creates an empty inner hunger which creates a need for narcisistic self appreciation that is always based on ego identification with something external, wealth, power, fame, glory all of which become some form of sacred cow ism. Only love creates an interest in the welfare of others that is real. Competition is hate and that's the last thing people want to see. In this world the lover is invisible.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,492
2,996
126
It strikes me a little odd that one of the countries worst abused by Nazis in the 20th century, would ignore minority rights in the 21st century.
Do you think the common people, the workers, hold no grievances?
Failing to provide an uplifting vision for hope, I believe they have fallen to despair. A despair that gives power to men like Trump.

The world has tried, and thus far failed, to move beyond our petty differences as we squabble for scraps at the economic table. We humans, for the most part, still fundamentally fail to understand economic liquidity and how it can be better balanced to move through the markets, pass through the hands of people / consumers and enrich us all with a certain standard of living. Basic Income is stress free. People free to live their lives and pursue their dreams as they see fit.
Unfortunately that is not the world we live in today. Capitalism has evolved into something ugly and as people throughout the developed world fight for more while holding less, year after year... that despair will turn to madness, and violence.

We have reached the stage of this process where action is taken, one way or another. I hope we find a way to balm our wounds with sane economic policy, but perhaps sanity is in short supply. We are after all, only human. Tribalism is our nature. Feel stress, find a target and sow division to its... fruitful end. Imagine a world where we did not desire the killing of one another. Where we actually strived to head in the opposite direction. I fear the efforts our societies have taken thus far are more of a token gesture than actual acts of good faith. Peace takes more dedication in our actions than I have witnessed thus far.
 
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