Poker etiquette question

[blackdogdeek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRwvkdqJHvQ

1. After the river, Ballande calls Hellmuth
2. Hellmuth throws cards in the muck (I believe without showing his cards) and says "You got it" or something to that effect
3. Hellmuth claims Ballande should show his cards as part of good poker etiquette

Is Hellmuth right?

As far as I know, once Hellmuth throws his cards in the muck, instead of turning his over in a showdown, he is relinquishing any right to know what Ballande has.

 

[Krazy4Real]

There's no such thing as good poker etiquette.

 

[Vic Vega]

Not my cup of tea.

 

[Paladin3]

He doesn't have to show, but may if he is feeling particularly generous. Since they are playing for a living and it's not really a "friendly" game, I'd politely say fuck him and not show either.

Everyone is trying to win, not make friends. Accusing someone of bad poker etiquette by now showing card, when they have no obligation to, is a even worse breach of etiquette, IMHO.

But all this is my layman's opinion. I'm not exactly a professional poker player, not even on TV.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

If Hellmuth didn't show, Bellande is under no obligation to show. Bellande called, so Hellmuth easily could have simply waited for both players' cards to be revealed, and chose to muck instead. As soon as you've conceded to your opponent, the hand is done, and if nothing's been revealed, so be it.

 

[sixone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRwvkdqJHvQ

1. After the river, Ballande calls Hellmuth
2. Hellmuth throws cards in the muck (I believe without showing his cards) and says "You got it" or something to that effect
3. Hellmuth claims Ballande should show his cards as part of good poker etiquette

Is Hellmuth right?

As far as I know, once Hellmuth throws his cards in the muck, instead of turning his over in a showdown, he is relinquishing any right to know what Ballande has.

There's no etiquette about it. Rules always override etiquette. Hellmuth just wanted a free look.

 

[Connoisseur]

Nope. Hellmuth is just talking trash. Once he mucks his card, he gave up his hand and any right to see the opponents cards. He should've just flipped and then Bellande would have to show both his cards to win the hand. That's the rule in every AC and Vegas casino as far as I'm aware. I believe some of the Native American casinos might have different rules though (this is from very vague memory) where everybody involved has to show their hands; I could be wrong on that one.

::EDIT:: Watched the rest of the video. Hellmuth isn't arguing rules, he's arguing "etiquette". Ha that's a laugh. Bellande followed the rules of poker. Rules say you don't have to show jack. This isn't some dark cigar bar in the lower east side. It's a professional poker venue. Hellmuth and Matusow are known for their mouths and spouting crap. If you ever got into an argument where someone was asking you to show your hand when they mucked, the dealer and/or floor manager would tell the mucker to STFU (politely of course).

 

[Drako]

Hellmuth is an ass.

 

[xBiffx]

Hellmuth is an ass.

+1

Also, you have to pay to see. No call, no see. Etiquette has no place here.

 

[KK]

hellmuth talking etiquette is like obama talking spending cuts.

 

[Baked]

hellmuth talking etiquette is like obama talking spending cuts.

hellmuth talking etiquette is like picking up a virgin at the club on Friday night.

 

[crownjules]

Poker is a game of knowledge. Hellmuth gave up his right to that knowledge the moment he denied Ballande the same info on him by mucking his hand when called down. He's just a sore loser.

 

[Vic Vega]

Poker is a game of knowledge. Hellmuth gave up his right to that knowledge the moment he denied Ballande the same info on him by mucking his hand when called down. He's just a sore loser.

This sounds correct to me. It's been a few years since I played but if you "fold" and scrap your cards, the only one left in the game gets the pot and they don't have to show any cards.

If you call, which forces the other person to show their hand you also must show your hand.

 

[Brigandier]

Gotta pay to see them.

 

[momeNt]

Hellmuth is just messing with him. By asking to see the cards, his reaction gives away the cards anyways, so he likely already knew what he was holding by the time he asked.

 

[Charlie98]

There's no etiquette about it. Rules always override etiquette. Hellmuth just wanted a free look.

^^^^This. As soon as Hellmuth mucks his cards, the hand is over.

Gotta pay to see them.

He actually did... he just didn't wait around for the fat lady to sing. His loss.

 

[Attic]

Proper etiquette is winning and getting under your opponents skin to make them play weaker.

It's not a gentleman's game, it's a scoundrels game. The minute you forget that you should leave.

 

[HN]

"Did you have it?"

 

[Bill Brasky]

Hellmuth is an ass.

I was thinking whiny bitch. But yeah, he's always been a huge complainer. Apparently people in the industry think his drama makes good tv.

If Hellmuth wanted to see Bellande's cards, then he shouldn't have mucked his own hand thus forfeiting the round.

 

[twinrider1]

Sam talks too much when he's not in the hand. And he called for the clock. I don't care for that.

What do you think of the way Bellande moved his chips at 2:25?