Plumbing Help

[nickbits]

So I discovered the builders of my house did not properly glue the toilet flange to the waste pipe and water has been leaking on my kitchen ceiling with every flush (eww...). Luckily it was in the upstairs bathroom and that toilet was rarely used. It took 10 years for any water marks to show up on the ceiling.

Anyway I need to replace the flange and it uses 3" pipe. So I go to HD and get all the parts I think I need and when I get home I discovered that apparently there is different 3" pipe. The pipe I bought from HD has a 3.5" OD and the pipe in my house has 3.25" OD. I don't recall seeing different types of 3" pipe so I'm not sure what to do.

Any suggestions? Do they made an union for 3.5 OD to 3.25 OD pipe?

 

[Greenman]

Is it pvc, abs, or iron pipe?

 

[Scarpozzi]

PVC is often slightly different when made by different companies. If you can find a long run of pipe installed, you can look for company names and figure out where you can get the same exact flange....or look for a rubber coupling to join the mismatched sized pipes.

 

[nickbits]

All PVC. Apparently the stuff in my house is "thin wall" schedule 30 PVC. I will see what I can find at hd tomorrow. Rubber coupling may have to do.

 

[T9D]

nvmnd

 

[Scarpozzi]

All PVC. Apparently the stuff in my house is "thin wall" schedule 30 PVC. I will see what I can find at hd tomorrow. Rubber coupling may have to do.

Contractors cutting corners again. Good luck finding what you need.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Schedule 40 is standard. Unless the same builder was building all the homes in an entire division, the savings would be negligible. I've seen a lot of screwed up plumbing in older homes but, I've never seen anyone using schedule 30.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

There are 2 different types of 3" flanges... one is a 'fitting' flange and I can't remember the name of the other .. is that what you mean?

 

[nickbits]

Schedule 40 is standard. Unless the same builder was building all the homes in an entire division, the savings would be negligible. I've seen a lot of screwed up plumbing in older homes but, I've never seen anyone using schedule 30.

There were 2 different builders in my sub. I think there are about 150 houses total. The company that built mine has since gone bankrupt :/ Not that it makes much difference now.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'm sorry for your troubles, it's a lame thing to do. The costs are very close and I'm guessing the savings would amount to ≈$100 on an entire house worth of plumbing. Makes me wonder what else he cheaped out on.

 

[nickbits]

I'm sorry for your troubles, it's a lame thing to do. The costs are very close and I'm guessing the savings would amount to ≈$100 on an entire house worth of plumbing. Makes me wonder what else he cheaped out on.

The roof. At least half the houses in the neighborhood (including mine) have had theirs replaced. All houses about 10 years old. Other than that I think the house is ok. The ac and furnace are also probably the cheapest ones that could be bought but they work well enough.

But, another issue I have with the same toilet that leaked is that it flushes poorly. I think the venting is messed up. I will try to fix that as well since I have everything open. One of the pipes in the ceiling is almost perfectly level !? I haven't figured out what everything is yet but the routing looks like a mess from what I can see. My theory right now is that is part of the vent stack and when it flushes, water "hangs out" in the level pipe thus blocking the vent.

 

[nickbits]

I think I found the part I need:
http://m.homedepot.com/p/3-in-PVC-Hub-x-Spigot-Bushing-65330/202251866
Can't tell for certain from the pic but I believe that slides on to the thin pipe to make it sch 40.
The hd description isn't very good but another site is better. http://www.smithlumber.doitbest.com/PVC+bushing-Genova+Inc-model-65330-doitbest-sku-410790.dib

 

[iGas]

I think I found the part I need:
http://m.homedepot.com/p/3-in-PVC-Hub-x-Spigot-Bushing-65330/202251866
Can't tell for certain from the pic but I believe that slides on to the thin pipe to make it sch 40.
The hd description isn't very good but another site is better. http://www.smithlumber.doitbest.com/PVC+bushing-Genova+Inc-model-65330-doitbest-sku-410790.dib

Those are transition bushing for adapting ABS fitting to PVC pipe. And, you will need transition cement to glue PVC to ABS.

 

[nickbits]

Those are transition bushing for adapting ABS fitting to PVC pipe. And, you will need transition cement to glue PVC to ABS.

I don't see anything that indicates they are ABS. However I think the solvent I have is for PVC and ABS.

Edit: isn't abs black? I have no black pipes, everything is white.

 

[boomerang]

Would this work?

http://www.hardwareworld.com/Schedule-40-to-30-Adapter-Sleeve-3-inch-pYB7KUH.aspx

I guess I'm wondering why you can't glue the flange you have to the pipe you have. If they fit together but weren't glued, it seems like you'd just need to glue them together. But I know it's difficult to describe these things sometimes.

 

[nickbits]

Would this work?

http://www.hardwareworld.com/Schedule-40-to-30-Adapter-Sleeve-3-inch-pYB7KUH.aspx

I guess I'm wondering why you can't glue the flange you have to the pipe you have. If they fit together but weren't glued, it seems like you'd just need to glue them together. But I know it's difficult to describe these things sometimes.

That is the same part i posted so I hope that is correct.

The flange was half glued. Enough to make it not come apart but not enough to make it water tight. How a professional fs that up idk.

You might think that I'm wrong about that being the leak instead of the wax seal but I plugged the pipe and filled the flange with water and could see it leak.

 

[Scarpozzi]

That is the same part i posted so I hope that is correct.

The flange was half glued. Enough to make it not come apart but not enough to make it water tight. How a professional fs that up idk.

You might think that I'm wrong about that being the leak instead of the wax seal but I plugged the pipe and filled the flange with water and could see it leak.

Between the toilet trap and gravity, it sounds like it's prevented a lot of damage. It's possible that it was glued, but the glue broke away if it never actually got in the joint...or if it never fit snug enough and either the toilet was set before the glue dried or rocked and broke it loose. Make sure when you reinstall the toilet that the flange isn't too high and that it rests on the wax ring/floor in a stable manner.

Years ago, I had a 1/2" pvc elbow made by a different manufacturer than the pipe I bought. I installed it and buried it in concrete. About 2 months later, I had to chip the concrete away to replace it and repour. Now I'm far more consistent in sticking to only one company for all my pvc fittings.

 

[boomerang]

You might think that I'm wrong about that being the leak instead of the wax seal but I plugged the pipe and filled the flange with water and could see it leak.

I have no reason to doubt you. Is there a plumbing supply nearby? I go to them for stuff where I think I'm not going to get the help I need at HD or Lowe's. They should have what you need in stock too.

Sometimes you get lucky and the guy manning the plumbing department at HD or Lowe's knows his shit but more often than not, it's somebody who doesn't.

A plumbing supply might have a toilet flange that will work with schedule 30. I mean, there's one on there now so they must be made. This is assuming that the stub you have left is salvageable. Also, a heat gun (a powerful hair dryer might be enough) may soften up the bond between the flange and the stub enough for you to separate them by wiggling or twisting.

Edit: I didn't click on your second link, only the first. Yes, same part.

 

[nickbits]

I have no reason to doubt you. Is there a plumbing supply nearby? I go to them for stuff where I think I'm not going to get the help I need at HD or Lowe's. They should have what you need in stock too.

Sorry I didn't really mean you specifically thought I was wrong, that comment was more for the thread in general. I know if I was reading the thread, that would be my thought.

A plumbing supply might have a toilet flange that will work with schedule 30. I mean, there's one on there now so they must be made. This is assuming that the stub you have left is salvageable. Also, a heat gun (a powerful hair dryer might be enough) may soften up the bond between the flange and the stub enough for you to separate them by wiggling or twisting.

I don't think I'm going to bother with that at this point. I need to fix the whole system because the toilet doesn't flush properly. I will be redoing the sink, toilet and bathtub connections to get the venting and slope right. Right now the main trunk that everything is tied into is "a hill". The middle is the highest point in the pipe. Not good. I'm not sure if it just the slope that is making it flush bad or if the venting isn't sufficient. I need to go into my attic and see where the vent is connected to.

Here's a top view of what I have:

 |*|  (vertical pipe down)
 | |
 | |
=|*| (bathtub)
 |   \
A| |\ \
A| | \*) toilet
A| |
 |*| (vertial pipe up--sink and vent)

Right now the section I have labelled "A" slopes the wrong way. I'm hoping resloping it will fix the suction issue. My other thought is that the vent needs to be closer to the vertical pipe down but I will have to research that more.

 

[boomerang]

Well, this time of year in Michigan is a good one to be in the attic. Summertime, not so much. Sounds like a big project.

This kind of stuff makes me wonder if inspectors are typically on the take or what. You have multiple issues going on. If a plumbing inspection is required, and it is, and things like this aren't caught, something is wrong. Of course it's all in the past. There is no recourse. Sucks.

 

[Aharami]

The roof. At least half the houses in the neighborhood (including mine) have had theirs replaced. All houses about 10 years old. Other than that I think the house is ok. The ac and furnace are also probably the cheapest ones that could be bought but they work well enough.

But, another issue I have with the same toilet that leaked is that it flushes poorly. I think the venting is messed up. I will try to fix that as well since I have everything open. One of the pipes in the ceiling is almost perfectly level !? I haven't figured out what everything is yet but the routing looks like a mess from what I can see. My theory right now is that is part of the vent stack and when it flushes, water "hangs out" in the level pipe thus blocking the vent.

so you have a wet vent. I think that's illegal in most townships for a waste stack

 

[nickbits]

so you have a wet vent. I think that's illegal in most townships for a waste stack

Did a quick search on what that is and it said it was using the upper story drain for the lower story vents. Most of the lower level fixtures are vented using AAVs. All of the first floor fixtures work fine.

EDIT: Did some more research and see that it basically means the waste pipe of one fixture is used to vent another fixture, which seems to be the case. I'll have to go into my attic and see if there is only 1 vent pipe or what is going on.

Looks like I might be ripping open the walls upstairs too. Joy.

 

[nickbits]

Went back to HD today and they have a full range of schedule 30 pipes and fittings. Didn't know to look for them before.

 

[FlexPVC]

I know it's an old thread, but I have to make corrections when I see them.

There is no such thing as sch 30 pipe. There is only Sch 40, 80 and 120.

What the OP had was SDR35 pipe. Not to be confused with SDR32.5 pipe. They are different. They are in different worlds. You can't mix/match them. It's be like sticking an Athlon in a 775 socket. Not going happen. Both are generally considered sewer, drain and waste pipe. SDR35 is much rarer and cheaper. 3" SDR35 is VERY rare. In fact nothing is listed for it as of today.

For the record, SDR35 is 3.25" on the OD, whereas Sch 40, Sch 80, Sch 120, Class 200, SDR13.5, SDR26, DWV and many others are 3.50" on the OD. What changes is the wall thickness and pressure ratings.

Just wanted to make the post to correct a common misunderstanding.

No, you really don't have to make corrections in old threads just because you see them.
administrator allisolm

 

[olds]

I know it's an old thread, but I have to make corrections when I see them.

There is no such thing as sch 30 pipe. There is only Sch 40, 80 and 120.

What the OP had was SDR35 pipe. Not to be confused with SDR32.5 pipe. They are different. They are in different worlds. You can't mix/match them. It's be like sticking an Athlon in a 775 socket. Not going happen. Both are generally considered sewer, drain and waste pipe. SDR35 is much rarer and cheaper. 3" SDR35 is VERY rare. In fact nothing is listed for it as of today.

For the record, SDR35 is 3.25" on the OD, whereas Sch 40, Sch 80, Sch 120, Class 200, SDR13.5, SDR26, DWV and many others are 3.50" on the OD. What changes is the wall thickness and pressure ratings.

Just wanted to make the post to correct a common misunderstanding.

You seem to know a lot. Does .99999 = 1?