PLO envoy to Washington: no Jews allowed in a Palestinian State

[Craig234]

This is actually not true. It probably is true for every normal citizen on both the Israel and Palestinian side but the Palestinian leaders have clearly not made this their goal. They've passed it up a number of times already.

They've passed it up with conditions they find unacceptable. That's not the same.

 

[Genx87]

So what I want to know is, if Israel is an "apartheid state" because it only allows 1.3 million Arabs to be citizens but doesn't want the rest of them as citizens, what does it mean when the Palestinians won't accept even a tiny minority of Jews? Is that like "super apartheid," "apartheidx100," "apartheid on steroids?"

Anyone?

I wouldnt call it apartheid. More like a nazi state of religious purity. And if you look back to the founding of modern radical islam in 1930s in that part of the world it will make that much more sense.

 

[EagleKeeper]

They've passed it up with conditions they find unacceptable. That's not the same.

IF they find the conditions so unacceptable they why did they agree to them in the first place?

The Palestinians came out of Camp David with an agreement that then was torn apart.
The same with Oslo.

Hamas did the same a few years ago with Israel itself on a truce; that lasted less than 24 hours.

The agreements seem to be for PR purposes only, not substance:'(

 

[Moonbeam]

What we see among the Palestinians we see right here in the USA, a situation in which the most insane, the most radicalized, those with the greatest victim mentality, Hamas and the Tea Party, conspire among themselves to insure their own people's self destruction via hate which is always really just hate of the self. Those who have had their inner selves destroyed by being told they are worthless don't want anybody to live.

If you could switch every Jewish baby for a Palestinian one in the womb when nobody was looking, and similarly every Palestinian baby with a Jewish one, in 20 years children would be killing their parents. The ego loves to identify with one stupidity or another refusing to see that we are all the same.

 

[woolfe9999]

I wouldn't call it apartheid. More like a nazi state of religious purity. And if you look back to the founding of modern radical islam in 1930s in that part of the world it will make that much more sense.

To be honest, I'm actually not that interested in arguing that the PLO has an "apartheid" ideology in particular, or a Nazi ideology, or an anti-semitic one. My main focus here is on Israel's critics who pollute what could be a constructive discussion with constant overcooked allegations like these:

1. Israel is an "apartheid" state, implying that it is largely similar to apartheid South Africa;
2. Israel behaves toward the Palestinians just as the Nazis behaved toward the Jews;
3. Israel is a "racist" state;
4. Zionism is based on "Judeo-Supremacy":

These allegations are repeatedly made without any context, as if Israel exists and can be judged in a vacuum. Racism is a relative concept - it exists to some degree in every nation and every society on the planet. Is the degree of racism that exists in Israel particularly extreme compared to other nations on earth? Is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians anywhere near as severe as that of the Nazis toward the Jews? If we accept that comparison as valid, how many other nations or groups past and present would be have to compared to the Nazis in order to be consistent? And why is behavior on the part of the Palestinians or arab nations that is similar or worse than that of the Israelis repeatedly glossed, overlooked, ignored or excused by critics of Israel?

Because these kinds of allegations clearly serve an inflammatory purpose and not a constructive one, I can only conclude that the people making the allegations have no useful purpose in mind. They simply hate Israel and want to bash it just for the sake of doing so. This thread illustrates the point. This kind of statement made by the PLO, who are supposedly the "moderate" faction as compared to Hamas, and it's ignored, glossed, or excused by Israel's critics. If this statement or anything similar was made by an Israeli politician it would be all over the anti-Israel blogosphere and the subject of multiple new threads on discussion boards across the internet.

Incidentally, this statement wasn't even publicized all that much in the supposedly pro-Israel US press (it isn't). It gets play in USA Today and the Christian Science Monitor but not he NY Times, the Washington Post, or any of the major networks.

- wolf

 

[Whiskey16]

My main focus here is on Israel's critics who pollute what could be a constructive discussion with constant overcooked allegations like these:

1. Israel is an "apartheid" state, implying that it is largely similar to apartheid South Africa;

Israelis subjugate Palestinians within their own land in favour of Israeli colonisation [Haaretz - "The legal system that enforces the law in a discriminatory way on the basis of national identity, is actually maintaining an apartheid regime.".[/quote]

2. Israel behaves toward the Palestinians just as the Nazis behaved toward the Jews;

Germany was not simply about enacting death through genocide. That was a fairly quiet policy behind the open goals of the expulsion of lesser 'people' from land in favour of growth and settlement by Germans. Comparisons are apt. [Haaretz - "Suddenly we are short of space here in Israel, which has become full to capacity and needs lebensraum. Every cultured person knows that this is a despicable German concept, banned from use because of the associations it brings up. Still, people are starting to use it, if not outright then with a clear implication: We are short of land, we are short of air, let us breathe in this country. "

3. Israel is a "racist" state;

This main basis is upon subjugating Palestinians within their land in favour of Israeli military occupation and Israeli citizen illegal colonisation of that land.

4. Zionism is based on "Judeo-Supremacy":

The continued practice of illegal Zionist expansion is exactly that of applied bigotry and of using occupational military force to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their land in favour of Israelis. [Haaretz - "Israel's expansion of settlements in East Jerusalem and eviction of Palestinians from their homes there is a form of ethnic cleansing"] -- in the case of the West Bank, overwhelming right-wing and vehemently Zionist Jews and Orthodox Jews who have a fundamental belief that the land has been granted by the heavenly power above and that this entire land of Judea is theirs and theirs alone. That exemplifies "Judeo-Supremacy."

These allegations are repeatedly made without any context, as if Israel exists and can be judged in a vacuum.
..
They simply hate Israel and want to bash it just for the sake of doing so. This thread illustrates the point.

:thumbsdown: No, woolfe9999, it is yourself who is dishonestly creating a vacuum where Israeli actions beyond their territory do not exist.

This is manufactured argument made by those who are totally dishonest upon events and wish to frame the dilemma as though Israel is not instigating a thing except by its national presence within the confines of the state of Israel.

This kind of statement made by the PLO, who are supposedly the "moderate" faction as compared to Hamas, and it's ignored, glossed, or excused by Israel's critics.

Again, here is this apparently nearly one year old statement is in the clear context of Israeli citizens and those who are to be citizens of a defined Palestinian state:

"After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated," Maen Areikat

Such a reality has been distorted by yourself and some particular media for anti-Palestinian propaganda purposes.

And why is behaviour on the part of the Palestinians or arab nations that is similar or worse than that of the Israelis repeatedly glossed, overlooked, ignored or excused by critics of Israel?

You are attempting to manufacture a falsified scenario where only Israel, an other countries do not receive criticism for their actions.

That tangent is to divert this topics issue of Israeli actions upon Palestinians. You are attempting to ignore the antagonising facts of Israeli occupation and colonisation.

Because these kinds of allegations clearly serve an inflammatory purpose and not a constructive one, I can only conclude that the people making the allegations have no useful purpose in mind.

Your issue is one of not accepting validated criticism of Israeli actions. That is dishonest.

So, woolfe9999, answer this simple two part question:

1. Is Israel occupying land beyond its borders?
2. Is the state of Israel applying its military to enforce and defend an Israeli policy to migrate 'settlers' into that land?

 

[woolfe9999]

Whiskey, you're not even replying to my arguments. You're mischaracterizing them and spamming your canned and biased anti-Israel talking points. And worse yet, you're once again repeating the Israel-Nazi comparison.

I've read over 50 books on Holocaust and Third Reich history. You quite clearly know DICK about any of that history, and frankly you are trivializing that genocide and demeaning its victims by making this comparison. You and everyone else making that comparison are doing so to bait Jews and it is disgusting and utterly beneath contempt.

You've exactly proven the point I was trying to make in starting this thread. There it is - you're the poster child. You utterly embarrass the Palestinian's cause and do nothing to lend credibility to any legitimate criticisms of Israel.

Frankly, you've made a total ass of yourself here and I'm done with you.

- wolf

 

[Whiskey16]

I've read over 50 books on Holocaust and Third Reich history. You quite clearly know DICK about any of that history, and frankly you are trivializing that genocide and demeaning its victims..

Liars, lie. I trivialised no such thing.

I am not blinded by ideology into making the dishonest mistakes that all must be black or white in that Germany of the past was simply faulted by it's acts of genocide. Plenty of other crimes were enacted policy of that state, some of which I correctly cited as parallels with Israeli expansion.

You and everyone else making that comparison are doin
g so to bait Jews...

I am a Jew. As with a growing number of Israelis, one who's honest and critical enough to call Israel out upon its crimes.

Frankly, you've made a total ass of yourself here and I'm done with you.

Then run away from your ill found record here until you find another misrepresentation for the purpose of forwarding Israeli propoganda against Palestinians.

 

[Nebor]

Israelis subjugate Palestinians within their own land in favour of Israeli colonisation [Haaretz - "The legal system that enforces the law in a discriminatory way on the basis of national identity, is actually maintaining an apartheid regime.".

Germany was not simply about enacting death through genocide. That was a fairly quiet policy behind the open goals of the expulsion of lesser 'people' from land in favour of growth and settlement by Germans. Comparisons are apt. [Haaretz - "Suddenly we are short of space here in Israel, which has become full to capacity and needs lebensraum. Every cultured person knows that this is a despicable German concept, banned from use because of the associations it brings up. Still, people are starting to use it, if not outright then with a clear implication: We are short of land, we are short of air, let us breathe in this country. "

This main basis is upon subjugating Palestinians within their land in favour of Israeli military occupation and Israeli citizen illegal colonisation of that land.
The continued practice of illegal Zionist expansion is exactly that of applied bigotry and of using occupational military force to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their land in favour of Israelis. [Haaretz - "Israel's expansion of settlements in East Jerusalem and eviction of Palestinians from their homes there is a form of ethnic cleansing"] -- in the case of the West Bank, overwhelming right-wing and vehemently Zionist Jews and Orthodox Jews who have a fundamental belief that the land has been granted by the heavenly power above and that this entire land of Judea is theirs and theirs alone. That exemplifies "Judeo-Supremacy."

:thumbsdown: No, woolfe9999, it is yourself who is dishonestly creating a vacuum where Israeli actions beyond their territory do not exist.

This is manufactured argument made by those who are totally dishonest upon events and wish to frame the dilemma as though Israel is not instigating a thing except by its national presence within the confines of the state of Israel.

Again, here is this apparently nearly one year old statement is in the clear context of Israeli citizens and those who are to be citizens of a defined Palestinian state:



Such a reality has been distorted by yourself and some particular media for anti-Palestinian propaganda purposes.

You are attempting to manufacture a falsified scenario where only Israel, an other countries do not receive criticism for their actions.

That tangent is to divert this topics issue of Israeli actions upon Palestinians. You are attempting to ignore the antagonising facts of Israeli occupation and colonisation.

Your issue is one of not accepting validated criticism of Israeli actions. That is dishonest.

So, woolfe9999, answer this simple two part question:

1. Is Israel occupying land beyond its borders?
2. Is the state of Israel applying its military to enforce and defend an Israeli policy to migrate 'settlers' into that land?

You just make people hate Palestinians more.

 

[Moonbeam]

Israel's biggest critics are Jews. It matters most to them that their nation is on the wrong track.

 

[yllus]

As far as I know, many Middle Eastern countries literally do not allow Israelis to enter their borders. In some (most?) places "Israeli" is interchangeable with "Jew".

Arab League boycott of Israel - Passport restrictions

In addition to goods and businesses, many Arab states refuse to allow entrance to anyone who uses an Israeli passport or who has any Israeli stamp in their passport. The stamp may be a visa stamp, or a stamp on entry or departure. It can also include a stamp of another country which indicates that the person has entered Israel. For example, if an Egyptian departure stamp is used in any passport at the Taba Crossing, that is an indication that the person entered Israel.

Countries that do not accept Israeli passports:

- Algeria [2]
- Bangladesh [3]
- Brunei [4]
- Djibouti [5]
- Iran [6]
- Kuwait [7]
- Lebanon[8] [8]
- Libya [9]
- Malaysia (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Internal Security).
- Pakistan [11]
- Saudi Arabia [12]
- Sudan [13]
- Somalia[citation needed]
- Syria[9] [14]
- United Arab Emirates [15]
- Yemen[10] [16]