PLO envoy to Washington: no Jews allowed in a Palestinian State

[woolfe9999]

Article:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/...raeli-jews-future-state-israel-PLO/50394882/1

Summary:

The PLO's representative in Washington said at a press conference this week that a Palestinian state would be free of Jews, stating "After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated."

I'm curious if they expect the 1.3 million Israeli Arabs to leave Israel and situate themselves in the new Palestinian state. If so, that would be an interesting development. However, I very much doubt he means that. He quite clearly expects Arabs and Jews to live in one, and only Arabs in the other.

I of course will patiently await cries of "Apartheid" on the part of the Palestinian West Bank leadership from all the usual suspects. Because you guys wouldn't want to be subject to the charge of hypocrisy, would you? Of course you wouldn't.

Here is a bio of the diplomat who made the remark:

http://www.aafusa.org/maen_rashid_areikatbio.htm


- wolf

 

[Moonbeam]

The Jewish nightmare of the Holocaust taught the Jews how to drive the Palestinians insane. You create what you fear. This is a major factor with self hate. Hate begets hate begets hate, endlessly. Jesus tried to tell this to the Jews but like everybody else in the rest of the world, say the lovely German-Holocaust Christians, they wouldn't listen.

 

[tweaker2]

Aren't the Jews, Christians and Muslims praying to and exhalting the same God? If they are, it sure seems like they're not.

 

[Lemon law]

I would hope the end goal of a Palestinian state would be for Palestinians and Jews to co-operate for mutual benefit. After all, the occurred in the 60 year run up to the creation of Israel in 1948. But given the piggish record Jews compiled post 1948, maybe a Palestinian State should be initially free of all Jewish influence.

After all, Palestinian self determination has been what the Pals have been asking for for 63 years and counting. And if the Pales get the undeniable right, and have a chance to build their own State, why should they waste time and effort to build overgrown bottle rockets, when they finally have a chance to build their own economy?

Moonbeam may be right that Israel is mired in their own self hate, but the lesson of South Africa is that building a better future for all beats the hell out of being mired in only past revenge. Its a point only Israeli zionists are unable to grasp.

And we must also understand, Israeli zionist pigs are not a majority in Israel.

We can only hope that in a post Palestinian State period, the State of Israel and Palestine realize mutual co-operation is the only far better way.

In my mind, the biggest lie is that cats and dogs must fight. Because in my little world, I have two dogs and two cats, who get along perfectly fine.

 

[Whiskey16]

I call bullshit upon USAToday's and woolfe9999's portrayal of the statement.

Nowhere did I read a specification of "Jews" by this Fatah representative nor of a quote against Jews being permitted in Palestine. What I have read is USAToday's conjecture and apparent manufacture of a non-existing story.

The stated context was of separating "two people" as in Israelis and Palestinians of a Palestinian state.

Palestine currently has a small population of Jews who are not citizens of Israel and are opposed to a doctrine of Zionism. Palestinians are not simply Muslim, but are also composed of multiple faiths and sects of those faiths.

This man's bio is of one trained by Foreign Affairs of Canada and as such quite unlikely to be of the type to advocate genocide against Jews upon the level outlined by USAToday and thereby woolfe9999. Bullshit is bullshit, and this thread reaks of it.

I await to be proven otherwise with a specific quote against Jews in Palestine.

As Israelis militarily occupy and colonise territory within Palestine it is quite reasonable to expect such Palestinian nationalists to desire that aggression to cease and for those occuying territory to retreat back into Israel.

 

[sarsipias1234]

The Jewish nightmare of the Holocaust taught the Jews how to drive the Palestinians insane. You create what you fear. This is a major factor with self hate. Hate begets hate begets hate, endlessly. Jesus tried to tell this to the Jews but like everybody else in the rest of the world, say the lovely German-Holocaust Christians, they wouldn't listen.

A lot of people are severely mentally ill from past war atrocities and these mentally ill people repeat the crimes committed against them on other people.

This is exactly the phenomenon of the Jewish/Palestinian relationship.

The type of self hate created from severe child abuse is identical to the Jewish self hate.

This self hate drives a person to abuse other people with the justification that they are defending themselves from abuse.

Just look at George Bush. He was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people yet is convinced he is a victim of terrorism.

George Bush wasn't abused in the traditional way. He was never held accountable for his actions his whole life which led to self esteem issues which he compensated for by abusing other people. Hitler was insecure in the same way although he was also physically abused as a child.

Mental illness is so common and pervasive in our society that most people do not recognize that we are all collectively mentally ill.

I really believe this is why the U.S. has supported Israel for so long: Americans and Israelis have similar self hate issues which draws them together for support.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I call bullshit upon USAToday's and woolfe9999's portrayal of the statement.

Nowhere did I read a specification of "Jews" by this Fatah representative nor of a quote against Jews being permitted in Palestine. What I have read is USAToday's conjecture and apparent manufacture of a non-existing story.

The stated context was of "two people" as in Israelis and Palestinians of a Palestinian state.

Palestine currently has a small population of Jews who are not citizens of Israel and are opposed to a doctrine of Zionism. Palestinians are not simply Muslim, but are also composed of multiple faiths and sects of those faiths.

I await to be proven otherwise with a specific quote against Jews in Palestine.

As Israelis militarily occupy and colonise territory within Palestine it is quite reasonable to expect such Palestinian nationalist to desire that aggression to cease and for those occuying territory to retreat back into Israel.

I call bullshit on you. The ambassador was explicitly asked about minority rights in a future Palestinian state and responded that the two peoples should be separated. It's clear what he meant. But you know that which is why you attempted to justify the statement after denying it.

 

[Whiskey16]

I call bullshit on you. The ambassador was explicitly asked about minority rights in a future Palestinian state and responded that the two peoples should be separated.

:thumbsdown: Then quote him with specifics that match the manufactured framework of this story.

What the USAToday provided was:

Areikat said the PLO seeks a secular state, but that Palestinians need separation to work on their own national identity.

Quite clearly the stated context for "separation" was in terms of state/national identity rather than USAToday's false portrayal of Palestinians being "anti-semetic," akin to "Nazis" and against "Jews" or their religion.

The onus is upon the OP, USAToday, and now yourself to provide a quotation of "no Jews allowed in a Palestinian state" or "the Palestine state should be free of Jews."

Failing that, the propogandic bullshit stands.

I am reasonable and open to correction. Yet I am also quite adept at critically sniffing out BS.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

:thumbsdown: Then quote him with specifics that match the manufactured framework of this story.

The onus is upon the OP, USAToday, and now yourself to provide a quotation of "no Jews allowed in a Palestinian state" or "the Palestine state should be free of Jews."

Failing that, the propogandic bullshit stands.

I am reasonable and open to correction. Yet I am also quite adept at critically sniffing out BS.

Sorry, just because you made up some arbitrary burden of proof doesn't put the onus on anyone. USAToday is a credible source. You can certainly choose not to believe it but you look foolish for doing so.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Sorry, just because you made up some arbitrary burden of proof doesn't put the onus on anyone. USAToday is a credible source. You can certainly choose not to believe it but you look foolish for doing so.

All of the major news media is owned by major corporations which control what you see and hear in the news.

Just look at New Corporation and Murdoch in their scandal.

I trust no media information these days to be completely unbiased in reporting.

You are foolish to believe what any news agency reports as the truth.

 

[Schadenfroh]

The onus is upon the OP, USAToday, and now yourself to provide a quotation of "no Jews allowed in a Palestinian state" or "the Palestine state should be free of Jews."

http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/48834/qa-maen-areikat/

Q&A: Maen Rashid Areikat (October 29, 2010)

When you imagine a future Palestinian state, do you imagine it being a place where Jews, if they wish to become Palestinian citizens, could own property, vote in elections, and practice their religion freely?

I remember in the mid-’90s, the late [PLO official] Faisal Husseini said repeatedly:

OK, if Israelis choose to stay in a future Palestinian state, they are more than welcome to do that. But under one condition: They have to respect and obey Palestinian laws, they cannot be living as Israelis. They have to respect Palestinian laws and abide by them.”

When Faisal Husseini died, basically no Palestinian leader has publicly supported the notion that they can stay.

What we are saying is the following: We need to separate. We have to separate. We are in a forced marriage. We need to divorce. After we divorce, and everybody takes a period of time to recoup, rebound, whatever you want to call it, we may consider dating again.

So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—

Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.

Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?

Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after.

 

[Whiskey16]

Schadenfroh, fine, if that is accurate then he does apply the label of "Jew" but the given context is of "Jews" being Israeli citizens with your quoted ellaboration of him:

"...that [eventual] freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another."

Much ado about nothing... Yet again for a thread, here.

My point is thereby reaffirmed that USAToday misrepresented this man as a "Nazi" and "anti-semite" as the concerns are for a state of Palestine to be permitted to evolve without the continued occupation by Israelis. Not a concern about religion, but the separation of citizenry of belligerant states.

No meat to the presented story. More manufactured propoganda against Palestinian self-determination.

Despite my concise clarrification again the OP and USAToday, I expect a few ideologues to continue forth with the same disproven arguments.... A sorry state for discussions.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

After all, Palestinian self determination has been what the Pals have been asking for for 63 years and counting. And if the Pales get the undeniable right, and have a chance to build their own State, why should they waste time and effort to build overgrown bottle rockets, when they finally have a chance to build their own economy?

You obviously have little understanding of the Arab/Muslim mindset. Why would they want to wage terrorist attacks on Israel and launch "overgrown bottle rockets" at Israel? Hatred, machismo, and pride. Their politicians are also liable to use Israel as a convenient distraction from domestic problems by blaming all of their domestic problems on Israel.

Moonbeam may be right that Israel is mired in their own self hate, but the lesson of South Africa is that building a better future for all beats the hell out of being mired in only past revenge. Its a point only Israeli zionists are unable to grasp.

To hear you tell it, the Muslims are dear little angels.

In my mind, the biggest lie is that cats and dogs must fight. Because in my little world, I have two dogs and two cats, who get along perfectly fine.

Animals can often behave more rationally than humans. We're dealing with humans here, and they're not always rational.

 

[woolfe9999]

All of the major news media is owned by major corporations which control what you see and hear in the news.

Just look at New Corporation and Murdoch in their scandal.

I trust no media information these days to be completely unbiased in reporting.

You are foolish to believe what any news agency reports as the truth.

What do we trust then? Bloggers? Forum posts?

These kinds of remarks are a red flag to me. What it means is, "I will dismiss any source when I don't like what it's telling me." I see no point in debating someone who rejects all facts that they don't like.

 

[woolfe9999]

The Jewish nightmare of the Holocaust taught the Jews how to drive the Palestinians insane. You create what you fear. This is a major factor with self hate. Hate begets hate begets hate, endlessly. Jesus tried to tell this to the Jews but like everybody else in the rest of the world, say the lovely German-Holocaust Christians, they wouldn't listen.

The Palestinians also hate themselves, and they project their self-hatred onto the Israelis.

 

[woolfe9999]

So what I want to know is, if Israel is an "apartheid state" because it only allows 1.3 million Arabs to be citizens but doesn't want the rest of them as citizens, what does it mean when the Palestinians won't accept even a tiny minority of Jews? Is that like "super apartheid," "apartheidx100," "apartheid on steroids?"

Anyone?

 

[OCGuy]

The Palestinians also hate themselves, and they project their self-hatred onto the Israelis.

Actually the whole Arab world looks down on the Palestinains as dogs. I have a Persian friend who hates jews, but also doesn't care for Palestinians. But if he has to choose...you get the picture.

 

[Whiskey16]

So what I want to know is, if Israel is an "apartheid state" because it only allows 1.3 million Arabs to be citizens but doesn't want the rest of them as citizens...

Quite dishonest portrayal of reality there, buddy. The issue is not of the state of Israel, rather Israeli occupation, control, and colonisation of Palestinians in territory beyond Israeli borders.

..what does it mean when the Palestinians won't accept even a tiny minority of Jews? Is that like "super apartheid," "apartheidx100," "apartheid on steroids?"

Keeping up with further manufacturing of scenerios? The issue is of Israelis being illegally present within a Palestinian state and the desires of Palestinians to evolve their state without the present interference of that clear belligerant.

Some great examples of this USATodays questionable motives and bias:

• A week before key Palestinian votes at the UN, presenting a misrepresentation of a Fatah delligate's words that are nearly a year old, as found by Schadenfroh. Why propogate such propoganda now?
• Have much of this article raising fears of a Palestinian state being on par with that of Nazi Germany with " Such a state would be the first to officially prohibit Jews or any other faith since Nazi Germany, which sought a country that was judenrein, or cleansed of Jews..."
• Include condemnation of Palestinians as "anti-semitic" with "Palestinian media frequently publishes and broadcasts anti-Semitic sermons by Islamic religious leaders, while the Hamas-run Al-Aqsa TV shows programming for preschoolers that extolls hatred of Jews and suicide bombings..."

This is a propagandic hack piece with little if any bearing upon reality. The OP and USAToday are exposed for their bullshit that was chosen to be portrayed.

Expectantly, such a thread is followed up with many posts condemning Palestinians as being the "dogs"....

An epic fail.

 

[woolfe9999]

Quite dishonest portrayal of reality there, buddy. The issue is not of the state of Israel, rather Israeli occupation, control, and colonisation of Palestinians in territory beyond Israeli borders.

Keeping up with further manufacturing of scenerios? The issue is of Israelis being illegally present within a Palestinian state and the desires of Palestinians to evolve their state without the present interference of that clear belligerant.

Some great examples of this USATodays questionable motives and bias:

• A week before key Palestinian votes at the UN, presenting a misrepresentation of a Fatah delligate's words that are nearly a year old, as found by Schadenfroh. Why propogate such propoganda now?
• Have much of this article raising fears of a Palestinian state being on par with that of Nazi Germany with " Such a state would be the first to officially prohibit Jews or any other faith since Nazi Germany, which sought a country that was judenrein, or cleansed of Jews..."
• Include condemnation of Palestinians as "anti-semitic" with "Palestinian media frequently publishes and broadcasts anti-Semitic sermons by Islamic religious leaders, while the Hamas-run Al-Aqsa TV shows programming for preschoolers that extolls hatred of Jews and suicide bombings..."

This is a propagandic hack piece with little if any bearing upon reality. The OP and USAToday are exposed for their bullshit that was chosen to be portrayed.

Expectantly, such a thread is followed up with many posts condemning Palestinians as being the "dogs"....

An epic fail.

I'm exposed for bullshit? That's quite a hoot. You epic failed right off the bat by questioning the accuracy of the source, and were shot down and made to look like a fool, and you're accusing me of bullshit? Grow up. This PLO envoy said what he said. You're ducking the issue and acting like a child. What's truly amusing here is how you first deny what the envoy said, and when proven wrong, you now try to justify it. Shift the goalposts much?

Don't bother lecturing me about the article comparing the PLO to the nazis. That comparison is repeatedly made with Israel by its critics. It's Godwin's law at its worst, and now you're whining when someone is doing the same thing to the Palestinians. What a hypocrit.

 

[Whiskey16]

I'm exposed for bullshit? That's quite a hoot.

Well you just attempted to misrepresent the charges of 'apartheid' against Israel as being the treatment of Arabs within Israel, rather than the damning and criminal status of Israeli actions outside of its borders. That's pretty damned dishonest.

Further, USAToday and yourself took this man out of context:

"After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people [citizens of Israel and Palestine] to be separated"

Due to a being proponants of Israel (your neglect to recognise Israeli subjugation of those outside of Israel) and shared agenda against Palestinians the discredit of this article and thread are clear.

This student of the Foreign Affairs department of Canada is not a "Nazi" nor is there any record of him desiring "judenrein." He's an advocate for a free and sovereign Palestine where Isaelis "separate" themselves from its territory.

Dishonest reporting by dredging up nearly year old quotes to take out of context all to conform with an timely agenda to subvert Palestinian asperations of statehood or at least UN membership.

A sham for propganda purposes is a sham. It's all bullshit.

I did not expect an honest debate with misrepresenting ideologues.

My points have been damning and made.

 

[woolfe9999]

Well you just attempted to misrepresent the charges of 'apartheid' against Israel as being the treatment of Arabs within Israel, rather than the damning and criminal status of Israeli actions outside of its borders. That's pretty damned dishonest.

Further, USAToday and yourself took this man out of context:

Due to a being proponants of Israel (your neglect to recognise Israeli subjugation of those outside of Israel) and shared agenda against Palestinians the discredit of this article and thread are clear.

This student of the Foreign Affairs department of Canada is not a "Nazi" nor is there any record of him desiring "judenrein." He's an advocate for a free and sovereign Palestine where Isaelis "separate" themselves from its territory.

Dishonest reporting by dredging up nearly year old quotes to take out of context all to conform with an timely agenda to subvert Palestinian asperations of statehood or at least UN membership.

A sham for propganda purposes is a sham. It's all bullshit.

I did not expect an honest debate with misrepresenting ideologues.

My points have been damning and made.

Your points are largely without merit. You've made exactly one point that is accurate here. The quotes contained in the article come from a pro-Israel perspective and the Nazi comparison is over the top, just like when Israel is compared to the Nazis, which is done 100 fold as often.

To be clear, comparisons with the Nazis are largely nonsensical unless you're talking about other genocidal regimes like Stalin or Pol Pot. All these other comparisons are inflammatory and not even intended to be constructive. It's bullshit no matter who's saying it. But you'll of course condemn the quote in the article while critics of Israel compare Israel to the Nazis constantly, on this discussion board and elsewhere.

And if it isn't clear enough already, you have no basis for assuming I vouch for every quote in the article. I linked the article for the fact of what the PLO envoy said, and the article made no misrepresentation about it. It's accurate for what I cited it for. It's disenguous at best for you to just assume I must agree with every opinion quoted in an article I link.

You claim I am being dishonest because I supposedly "just attempted to misrepresent the charges of 'apartheid' against Israel as being the treatment of Arabs within Israel, rather than the damning and criminal status of Israeli actions outside of its borders. That's pretty damned dishonest."

That is totally false. I made no claim that the apartheid allegation is about how Israeli Arabs are treated. I said, and I quote: "So what I want to know is, if Israel is an "apartheid state" because it only allows 1.3 million Arabs to be citizens but doesn't want the rest of them as citizens...."

So what I said, if you need a lesson in reading comprehension, is that Israel is called an "Apartheid state" because they force the West Bank and Gaza Palestinians to live outside of Israel and won't grant them citizenship. Why do I characterize it that way? Because that is how the allegation is framed over and over again. Remember when they built the security wall and it was called an "apartheid wall." It was called an APARTheid wall because they claimed that the wall was meant to keep the Palestinians APART, i.e. that it was a seperatist act.

So that is the hypocrisy I allege here, and it's a fair allegation. Israel is called Apartheid for keeping the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza out, even though they allow 1.3 million to live in Israel as citizens, but it's perfectly OK if the Palestinians want to keep ALL the Jews out of a newly formed state.

You so far failed to prove any form of dishonesty on my part whatsoever and you're looking worse and worse with every post you make in this thread.

- wolf

 

[Moonbeam]

The Palestinians also hate themselves, and they project their self-hatred onto the Israelis.

Of course. Did I say something than that nobody listens? But do you blame the Germans or the Jews for the Holocaust?

We will need to wait for the Palestinians to abuse a subjugated people of their own, will we not, before they've stepped up for their dose of shame?

 

[Craig234]

nm

 

[randomrogue]

An interesting video from an Israeli POV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuBc_cbXo0

It's 6 minutes long.

 

[randomrogue]

After all, Palestinian self determination has been what the Pals have been asking for for 63 years and counting. And if the Pales get the undeniable right, and have a chance to build their own State, why should they waste time and effort to build overgrown bottle rockets, when they finally have a chance to build their own economy?

This is actually not true. It probably is true for every normal citizen on both the Israel and Palestinian side but the Palestinian leaders have clearly not made this their goal. They've passed it up a number of times already.