Please suggest to me a budget SLi board for Quad-Core: I'm looking for DTS Connect or DD Live.

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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I seem to be a prime candidate for a 650i SLI board, but most retailers and even product manufacturers make it EXTREMELY difficult to look up DD Live or DTS Connect support. Any suggestions?

Also, this thread suggests that many have serious problems with this CPU. What and why?

Edit: OK, I narrowed it down to the Asus P5N32-E SLI (680i) w/ DTS Connect and the "Plus" version (seemingly 650i) w/ DTS Connect, the P5N32-E SLI Plus. Considering that they range from $180 ("Plus") to $210 (non-Plus, but confirmed 680i), which should I chose?

The "Plus" 650i (assumedly) one doesn't list the chipset in most specifications (see the motherboard thread and Asus' website calling it a "NVIDIA® Dual x16 SLI" chipset) leading me to believe that there is something fishy here. Even so, most reviews have pegged it as a 650i SLI board, though most people here seem to believe that a 650i board with DTS Connect does not exist. Asus has stated that the only difference is that the "Plus" version has solid capacitors! Shouldn't that make the "Plus" version more expensive (and a 680i for that matter)? I just found a note on Asus' site calling it "NVIDIA nForce Dual PCI-E x 16 chipset" for the "Plus" board, but it is not listed with the 650i boards and there is no similar note for another strangely-named chipset (P5NT WS and its "NVIDIA nForce Dual PCI-E x 16" chipset). That "other" board has a 3rd x16 slot for a physics card and that means that it must be a 680i for the extra PEG. I'm thinking that both boards are but something doesn't live up to the promised features so they have to call it something else and disable in the BIOS (as the AT motherboard thread seems to think).
 

Heidfirst

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May 18, 2005
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I don't think that any 650i SLI mobo has the necessary codec for either DD or DTS.
best add a soundcard.
 

Blazer7

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CZroe , I agree with Heidfirst. It makes no sense for a manufacturer to implement an expensive DD/DTS hardware codec in a budget board. The way I see it you have 2 choices :

a) get a cheap 650 board and add a sound card like Heidfirst suggests.

b) go for the ASUS Striker Extreme. This is a 680 board with an add-on sound card that offers some DTS functionality. The cost of the board should be about the same as the 650 board + a DD/DTS sound card and it is quaranted that the sound card will function without any problems or compatibility issues.

Either way this will cost more than what you've been expecting but since you 're out there to get an SLI board I take it that you want to invest in 2 VGAs. For me it makes sense to also invest in a high end mobo as well. I would go for sollution #2 myself. Since the cost of these 2 solutions is about the same I would definitely prefer to get the high end board.
 

renethx

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Apr 28, 2005
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There is no 650i board that supports DTS Connect or DDL. So buy a 650i board and Sondigo Inferno (for example, $80), or buy a 680i boards supporting it:

ASUS P5N32-E SLI (DTS)
ASUS P5N32-E SLI Plus (DTS)
GIGABYTE GA-N680SLI-DQ6 (DTS, DDL)
 

Blazer7

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renethx, I do have the GA-N680SLI-DQ6 rev 1 board and you are right, it does support DD and DTS through the ALC 888 DD audio codec. CZroe however is after a quad core ready board and neither the rev1 or rev2 of the GA-N680SLIDQ6 board are validated to work with the new quad cores. Currently Gigabyte is evaluating the new quad core cpus but there is no official support for them yet. Besides, the GA-N680SLI-DQ6 is a bit more expensive than the ASUS Striker Extreme. It is a very good board though but unless Gigabyte releases a new BIOS that will provide official support for the new quad cores It won't be much of a choice. A new BIOS release from Gigabyte is expected early August.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: Blazer7
CZroe , I agree with Heidfirst. It makes no sense for a manufacturer to implement an expensive DD/DTS hardware codec in a budget board. The way I see it you have 2 choices :

a) get a cheap 650 board and add a sound card like Heidfirst suggests.

b) go for the ASUS Striker Extreme. This is a 680 board with an add-on sound card that offers some DTS functionality. The cost of the board should be about the same as the 650 board + a DD/DTS sound card and it is quaranted that the sound card will function without any problems or compatibility issues.

Either way this will cost more than what you've been expecting but since you 're out there to get an SLI board I take it that you want to invest in 2 VGAs. For me it makes sense to also invest in a high end mobo as well. I would go for sollution #2 myself. Since the cost of these 2 solutions is about the same I would definitely prefer to get the high end board.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. The manufacturers just don't have their ear to the ground as far as HTPC builders go. It makes exactly as much sense as implementing all the video decode acceleration on low-end/mid-range video cards only. It's almost a necessity for HTPCs and yet it's an industry afterthought (like SoundStorm). There's not even a "multichannel audio encode" spec that can be filtered at NewEgg or any motherboard comparison I've ever seen.

I found a TON of reviews and even eBay auctions that listed DTS Connect on the Asus 650i board, but I can only assume that they grabbed the wrong specs. It's actually supposed to be a "budget" but clearly high-end gaming system. Cheapest Lexar/Crucial 4GB DDR2 RAM from Fry's, Core 2 Quad Q6600, motherboard with the features I want for my home theater, $69 Antec 900 (though I hate the stylings of this case), and a couple 8800GTS 640MB cards to hold me off until the next-gen SLI boards come out. Really, the only reason for SLI is not to have a kick-ass gaming computer, but to have something next to my PS3 that can actually out-perform it. Considering that the 8800GTS alone is older than the PS3, I figure that SLI can do that for far less than going all "extreme" by buying 8800GTX, 680i, & overclocker's memory, etc.

Thanks for pointing out that it doesn't exist guys. So here's the dilemma now: I know performance on 600-series chips is lackluster compared to the P35, so I was really hoping to just get an inferior (cheap) board now and upgrade to the next-gen SLI boards when they arrive, but I was still aiming for SLI in the mean time (considering that that is what I am "upgrading" from... an nForce 4 SLI w/ 2x7800GT). What would you consider a good hold-over? I guess I can forget the DD live or DTS Connect for now (I need a better receiver anyway).
 

Heidfirst

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most HTPC builders aren't using full ATX cases though afaik & nF6xxi chucks out alot of heat especially when overclocked.
What are you displaying on?
Unless you are running 1900x res. with anti-aliasing etc. a single 8800GTS will be enough.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: Heidfirst
most HTPC builders aren't using full ATX cases though afaik & nF6xxi chucks out alot of heat especially when overclocked.
What are you displaying on?
Unless you are running 1900x res. with anti-aliasing etc. a single 8800GTS will be enough.

It'll be used primarily with my Sony KDL-52XBR (1080p), but I also have a KV-30XBR910 that it may spend some time with. It's right next to a computer desk with a KVM and a Dell 2007WFP with a Samsung 225BW mounted on the wall right above it, so I do foresee some use with these displays too (multi-monitor). There's also a 2005FPW on the side of the 2007WFP. ;)

I have an HTPC at my other place built in an SFF (Shuttle SN45G) and another here (FIC Condor), but the reason I chose to use the full ATX Antec 900 for this build was because 1) The P180 I have isn't perfect, 2) It's a better fit for a quad-core SLI rig than that P180 or the CMStacker STC-810 3) It's the exact same height as my TV stand and matches the color (putting it on the right side hides the gaudy left-panel window) and 4) the storage area on top fits the PS3 controller PERFECTLY for charging it when the PS3 is off (the XBOX360 controller fits somewhat too)... I even have a pretty short jumper cable that matches it. OH! And 5) because it was only $69 for the case at Fry's. The most compelling reason to build with the A900 was to build a no compromises HTPC to rival the PS3. I'm even considering using my PCP&C TurboCool 1KW, Promise SuperTrak SX6000 and six 500GB Hitachi 7k500 HDDs (in addition to a Western Digital SATA 500GB boot drive I have laying around). I've had way too much trouble getting the two-card twelve-drive array running in the Cooler Master Stacker case and that old Athlon XP (mobile Barton) isn't good for much else than file-serving.

Though a single 8800GTS will "be enough," will it really be enough to rival the PS3 next to it? I'm not going for top-class performance (yet)... just a unique setup with a mission: awesome gaming computer with the potential for some premium performance in the future (motherboard/video upgrade with 2x2GB performance memory instead of this 4x1GB value stuff... when I feel the pressure to get a premium HSF and overclock)... and perhaps a kick-ass storage setup. ;) The main concern is the games that require activation now. I'd hate to get all this set up and then use my only reactivation after the upgrade. I like buying my multiplatform games for the PC to support the superior platform, so I at least expect the same performance from it at 1080p that I would get from my PS3/XBOX 360.
 

Blazer7

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Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: CZroe

Actually, it makes perfect sense. The manufacturers just don't have their ear to the ground as far as HTPC builders go. It makes exactly as much sense as implementing all the decode accelerators on low-end/mid-range video cards only. It's almost a necessity for HTPCs and yet it's an industry afterthought (like SoundStorm). There's not even an "multichannel audio encode" spec that can be filtered at NewEgg or any motherboard comparison I've ever seen.

I guess you are right. The manufacturers don't really care much about HTPC users. This is considered as a strictly micro ATX market for them so everything else is off limits.

Anyway, If you are going after the Q6600 make sure that you pick a G0 step cpu. It has a new TDP of 95W compared to the 105W of its predecessor so this will generate less heat and hopefully oc better. The new G0 cpus have already been spotted out there.

If you are going after a retail ver of this cpu make sure that Intel's sSpec number is SLACR (SL9UM is the sSpec number for the old B3 step cpu).

http://processorfinder.intel.c...tails.aspx?sSpec=SLACR
 

Heidfirst

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Originally posted by: CZroe so I do foresee some use with these displays too (multi-monitor).
SLI doesn't do multi-monitor (only outputs to a single screen) so there's another reason not to get it ...
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: Blazer7
Originally posted by: CZroe

Actually, it makes perfect sense. The manufacturers just don't have their ear to the ground as far as HTPC builders go. It makes exactly as much sense as implementing all the decode accelerators on low-end/mid-range video cards only. It's almost a necessity for HTPCs and yet it's an industry afterthought (like SoundStorm). There's not even an "multichannel audio encode" spec that can be filtered at NewEgg or any motherboard comparison I've ever seen.

I guess you are right. The manufacturers don't really care much about HTPC users. This is considered as a strictly micro ATX market for them so everything else is off limits.

Anyway, If you are going after the Q6600 make sure that you pick a G0 step cpu. It has a new TDP of 95W compared to the 105W of its predecessor so this will generate less heat and hopefully oc better. The new G0 cpus have already been spotted out there.

If you are going after a retail ver of this cpu make sure that Intel's sSpec number is SLACR (SL9UM is the sSpec number for the old B3 step cpu).

http://processorfinder.intel.c...tails.aspx?sSpec=SLACR
I actually picked it up at the Fry's July 4th deal, so without even checking I almost certainly have the bad stepping. I did get the extended warranty, so I still have the option of swapping it out for the more desirable one once they are in general stock.

Originally posted by: Heidfirst
Originally posted by: CZroe so I do foresee some [temporary]use with these displays too (multi-monitor).
SLI doesn't do multi-monitor (only outputs to a single screen) so there's another reason not to get it ...

Yeah, I know that from my current SLI setup. It's a simple Control Panel toggle when you want to do a little multi-monitor computing. None of my multi-monitor uses would ever be permanent anyway. Anyone looking for a crappy bundled ECS board? ;)
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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OK, I guess I'm nearly decided, but before I pull the trigger on an Asus P5N32-E SLI, is there anything important I should know? Remember: I intend to use it in SLI with 64-bit OS, C2Q, and 4GB DDR2-800 and I'm not aiming for "extreme overclocks" or anything like that.

I settled on it for SupremeFX (AKA, "DTS Connect by Asus"), ADI audio chipset (as prefered in this Anandtech review of a Gigabyte board... see the final thoughts), and it's cheaper than other 680i SLI + DTS/DD boards (~$200).

Speaking of that Anandtech review (of a Gigayte board), is this Asus board known to have any of those issues described regarding early/reference 680i boards? Even if so, should I be concerned? Is that why it's so cheap?

Edit:
Though Asus claims that the only difference between the $200 680i version and the much cheaper "Plus" version is that the plus includes solid-state capacitors (isn't that a little backwards pricing then?), I determined that it is because the chipset is actually 650i. Asus and Newegg seem intentionally vague calling it "nVidia X16SLI" chipset and such. I guess a fabled 650i DTS Connect board DOES exist! There must be some reason to obfuscate the chipset. Is there something wrong with this board? Should I go for the "secret" 650i "Plus" version of this board or play it safe and pay $20 more for the 680i version?
 

Heidfirst

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Originally posted by: CZroeI determined that it is because the chipset is actually 650i. Asus and Newegg seem intentionally vague calling it "nVidia X16SLI" chipset and such. I guess a fabled 650i DTS Connect board DOES exist! There must be some reason to obfuscate the chipset. Is there something wrong with this board? Should I go for the "secret" 650i "Plus" version of this board or play it safe and pay $20 more for the 680i version?
It's not a 650i chipset though because Asus use an nVidia 570 (iirc) AMD chipset as the southbridge to give them the extra lanes to do dual X16 (the nb runs 1 slot at x16 7 the sb runs the other at x16). I guess that it's a cheaper solution than buying a 680i chipset from nVidia.

 

Blazer7

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Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: CZroe

I actually picked it up at the Fry's July 4th deal, so without even checking I almost certainly have the bad stepping. I did get the extended warranty, so I still have the option of swapping it out for the more desirable one once they are in general stock.

Good for you. The G0 cpus are already available in the old continent. (silently released on July 22 along with the new E6x50 cpus, so for the time being you're stuck with the B3 step)

normal Q6600
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...701&catid=6&subcat=793

?new energy efficient? Q6600 (G0)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...701&catid=6&subcat=793
 

Blazer7

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Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: CZroe
OK, I guess I'm nearly decided, but before I pull the trigger on an Asus P5N32-E SLI, is there anything important I should know? Remember: I intend to use it in SLI with 64-bit OS, C2Q, and 4GB DDR2-800 and I'm not aiming for "extreme overclocks" or anything like that.

I settled on it for SupremeFX (AKA, "DTS Connect by Asus"), ADI audio chipset (as prefered in this Anandtech review of a Gigabyte board... see the final thoughts), and it's cheaper than other 680i SLI + DTS/DD boards (~$200).

Speaking of that Anandtech review (of a Gigayte board), is this Asus board known to have any of those issues described regarding early/reference 680i boards? Even if so, should I be concerned? Is that why it's so cheap?

Edit:
Though Asus claims that the only difference between the $200 680i version and the much cheaper "Plus" version is that the plus includes solid-state capacitors (isn't that a little backwards pricing then?), I determined that it is because the chipset is actually 650i. Asus and Newegg seem intentionally vague calling it "nVidia X16SLI" chipset and such. I guess a fabled 650i DTS Connect board DOES exist! There must be some reason to obfuscate the chipset. Is there something wrong with this board? Should I go for the "secret" 650i "Plus" version of this board or play it safe and pay $20 more for the 680i version?

I am completely satisfied with my GA-N680SLI-DQ6 board, Realtek HD audio and all but have in mind that all 680 boards get bloody hot. The choice between the 2 versions of the P5N32-E SLI board is an easy one. To have a board with solid capacitors is a good thing. You won't have to worry about having a capacitor leaking after a couple of years especially if the machine runs in a hot environment or is overclocked. The solid capacitors are worth every extra buck. If you are to chose between the P5N32-E SLI and the P5N32-E SLI Plus the later wins hands down. Besides, the all solid capacitor design is not the only difference between the 2. The southbridge also differs (as Heidfirst mentioned) as the Plus version uses the 570 SLI MCP, primarily used in AMD based boards.

There are some very good reviews for the P5N32-E SLI Plus out there that should prove helpful

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2958&p=1

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa...asus_p5n32e_sli_plus/1

All boards have some kinds of issues but since the Plus version is the 2nd generation I would expect it to have fewer problems than the P5N32-E SLI boards. Are you planning on using 2 or 4 DIMMs for your 4 GB of mem? If you are planing on using 4 it would be better to have a look at the memory QVL before you buy the board. That, and getting a cooling solution for your ram would be nice.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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Yes, I am planning to use four 1GB PC6200 Crucial modules with Samsung K4T51083QE chips (Samsung?! WTH happened to "Crucial: A Micron Company?"). I'll be sure to check the list, but those have been useless to me in the past. Example: My brother's 2x1GB OCZ Value RAM from his Pentium 4 system would only work in my Abit AN8-SLI when underclocked or set to 2T timings despite being listed on OCZ's website as one of the boards they did their testing with... Corsair 2x1GB ValueRAM worked just fine and overclocked well.

Now, why is the "Plus" version so much cheaper if it has superior capacitors and is a 680i equivalent?

You guys are awesome. Thanks for helping me make this special-case decision.
 

Blazer7

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I know what you mean. All these fancy ?modern? mobos often suffer from compatibility problems when teamed with 4 sticks. I had my fair share with my G.Skills (4x1GB @1066) even though I contacted G.Skill prior to buying my mobo and they said that it shouldn't be a problem with this memory and Gigabyte's GA-965P-DQ6. In the end I had to change boards and this is how I ended up with the GA-N680SLI-DQ6. It is a risk to use 4 sticks nowadays.

As far as the price is concerned your guess is as good as mine. Maybe ASUS is trying to get a bigger portion of the market. ASUS is pretty big and they can easily order large quantities of chipsets and other components and with large orders come big discounts etc.

Originally posted by: CZroe

You guys are awesome. Thanks for helping me make this special-case decision.

Anytime.
 

Heidfirst

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May 18, 2005
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Originally posted by: CZroe
Now, why is the "Plus" version so much cheaper if it has superior capacitors and is a 680i equivalent?
as i mentioned I suppose that a 650i nb & a 570 sb is significantly cheaper than the full 680i chipset from nVidia (iirc that alone is ~$50 for a mfr to buy).
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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The Crucial modules (K4T51083QE Samsung chips) are not listed in the QVL (probably too new) but the modules listed with similarly named Samsung chips (K4T510XXXX) are good for all configurations tested. Should I be concerned? I totally expected to need 2T for stability with four modules, so relaxed timing's are not much of a concern.

Originally posted by: Heidfirst
Originally posted by: CZroe
Now, why is the "Plus" version so much cheaper if it has superior capacitors and is a 680i equivalent?
as i mentioned I suppose that a 650i nb & a 570 sb is significantly cheaper than the full 680i chipset from nVidia (iirc that alone is ~$50 for a mfr to buy).

It's odd that the difference in cost to them can be that much.
 

Blazer7

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2T with 4 DIMMs is a must but this may not affect the rest of your timings. I was doing 4-3-3-5-2T@1066 2.75V with 4 DIMMs and my memory is rated for 4-4-4-5-1T 2.2~2.4V for 1 pair (2 x F2-8500PHU2-2GBHZ). I guess that the board/BIOS plays a significant role as to how RAM behaves and the drop from 1T to 2T is known to help tighten the rest of the timings.
 

Blazer7

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I think that Heidfirst is right once again. Here is an example on the cost of chipsets. Yields for the 680 are low, that automatically raises the cost. To get to understand how much the 680 chipset costs just look at what the manufacturers are doing. My GA-N680SLI-DQ6 (rev.1) uses the 590 southbridge MCP55PXE. Because of the low yields and the overall cost of the chipset Gigabyte replaced the southbridge in the rev.2 boards with the MCP55P (570). And this is not just Gigabyte. Everybody had to do the same as nVidia decided to stop production of the MCP55PXE. Even though it was superior to the MCP55P the cost was just too much.

Gigabyte Rev.1 specifications page :
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Pro...uctName=GA-N680SLI-DQ6

Gigabyte Rev.2 specifications page :
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Pro...uctName=GA-N680SLI-DQ6

nVidia's Tech spec page for the Intel nforce 600 series chipset :
http://www.nvidia.com/page/nforce_600i_tech_specs

Note the fine writing at the bottom of the table.

**Note: NVIDIA LinkBoost? technology has been removed as a feature from NVIDIA nForce® 680i SLI

It is known that the 570 does not support LinkBoost. So with the 590 out and the 570 in the specs for the chipset have changed. Bottom line, the chipset is probably the most expensive component for a motherboard manufacturer. You get a cheap one you can deliver a cheap mobo. You get an expensive one you start looking how to cut on cost. I think this explains the difference in cost.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
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I guess why it seems odd to me is that I always considered most of the added costs as arbitrary ways to segment the market and profit more from the high-end (like when Asus and others enabled Intel's "PAT" on the cheaper chips and had to simply call it something else). I guess I was operating on the assumption that a 650i SPP was just a gimped and otherwise fully-functional 680i SPP, especially seeing this board's performance with the C55 650i SPP in comparison to 680i boards.

It doesn't bother me that moving up to 4 DIMMs means 2T (knew that), but it still bugs me that "qualified" modules in the past forced me to do that with only two DIMMs in dual channel on a publicly *tested* and qualified board. I'm just hoping I don't run into a similar situation (3T?! J/K ;)).