Please suggest an entry level DSLR

[Krioni]

Background
I currently have a P&S Canon a620. Anyway, I have a 2 year old and he's way too active and fast for me to capture with my P&S. I figure in the next few years he'll be doing lots of school activities, etc that will require me to take some pictures possibly in poor lighting or quick action. Basically, I'm thinking it's time to get into the DSLR game. This new camera will be my all-around general use camera. I'll use it indoor and out for family functions, parties, cook outs, etc.

Please tell me your opinions, experiences, etc about any/all entry level dslr cameras. I understand that I"m not going to be able to get any kind of great lenses in my price range... but if I can get the camera and a basic lens in my price, then I can add a better lens, etc later.


Options I've seen: (here's a comparison of some)

Nikon D40
-Seems to get great reviews
-Isn't there some issue with lense availability?

Canon Rebel XT
-I have an old rebel film camera.. would the 80-300mm lens from the old camera work on this?
Thanks to alfa147x for confirming that my lens would work with the new Canon DSLR!

Olympus E410
-Looks like a great camera to me, I like the dust removal feature

Olympus E510
-Same as the E410, but with in camera image stabilization (IS)... that would be nice, because I have kind of shaky hands.

Pentax K100D
-This one also seems to get good reviews online.

Are there others i've neglected to think of? I know in the used market there are older versions of each of these cameras... I am open to used cameras if they can be had in my price range and are in decent shape.

I haven't really looked through recent press releases to see the new versions that are coming out... because I kind of doubt they'll be in my price range.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: Krioni

Canon Rebel XT
-I have an old rebel film camera.. would the 80-300mm lens from the old camera work on this?

does the mount look like this
http://farm1.static.flickr.com...0678177_b32a84cbd6.jpg

IMO i would go the canon XT or the Nikon
I would rather stay with the big names in the business

 

[soydios]

those options are just about the right ones. (disclaimer: I shoot with a Nikon D50)

the D40 is a good camera, but does not have an in-body focusing motor. thus, it only autofocuses with lenses that have an in-lens autofocus motor, usually designated with an "AF-S" moniker. keep an eye out for a possible D40x replacement (D60?) coming in a few days at PMA. the only hint we have right now is that D40x production has been suspended, though that may be to make room for increased D300 production. if a D60 comes out, expect D40x prices to drop, and D40 prices a little bit.
or, you could track down a used Nikon D50 (no, I am not selling mine, I'm planning on using it as a back-up body to a D80x/D90), and get a better camera than the D40 (5-point vs. 3-point AF, in-camera AF motor for full lens compatibility, top LCD, same sensor), but "miss out" on all the newbie-assist tricks that the D40 has.

the Rebel XT has the worst build quality and feel of any of the cameras that you listed, IMO. but, if your 80-300mm lens is an EF model, then it will work with any Canon DSLR. that's a big reason to stay within the Canon system. Canon just released the 450D (Rebel XSi, which sounds so wimpy). it has a few notable feature upgrades (I still cannot believe that Canon didn't have spot metering in the Rebel DSLRs until now!), but more importantly in your case, you might be able to pick up a used 400D (Rebel XTi) for cheaper now.

the E410 and E510 are the same camera, with the obvious exception of IS. I'm more of a fan of in-lens IS, because it stabilizes the viewfinder too. the dust-buster in these cameras has been reviewed as the most effective system. dust-removal features in all the other DSLRs are largely ineffective.*

the K100D brings some very innovative features to the table, and Pentax is not a system to be ignored. they just released the K200D, which might bear some looking into. I haven't read up too much on it yet, though, so ask others for their take.

*on the topic of dust, don't get too drawn in to all the hype. at least with my D50, I can only start seeing faint marks from what must be the large dust spots at f/8, and I only get photo-killing dust spots at f/11 or smaller.

 

[OdiN]

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore...&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=&KW=20d

You can find 20D's for about that price.

If your lens works on a Canon EF mount then there you go!

If it doesn't, sometimes you can get adapters to get them to work.

 

[Cstefan]

I love my k100d super and they can be had in your budget especially with people selling them to get the k200d.

 

[ElFenix]

i think pentax stopped making k100d, even the super model, a few months ago. stocks seem to be drying up all over the place. this makes sense because pentax just announced the k200d last week. if you can find one they're good cameras.

the lenses that you use with the film rebel will work with canon's current cameras.

i kinda like the E-410.

 

[Krioni]

Originally posted by: alfa147x

Originally posted by: Krioni

Canon Rebel XT
-I have an old rebel film camera.. would the 80-300mm lens from the old camera work on this?

does the mount look like this
http://farm1.static.flickr.com...0678177_b32a84cbd6.jpg

IMO i would go the canon XT or the Nikon
I would rather stay with the big names in the business

Hey, thanks for the pic of the lens... that is exactly what min looks like... so I guess I've got a decent zoom lens if I go with Canonl.

My lens says "Canon Zoom Lens EF 75-300mm 1:4-5.6 II" Do those numbers mean anything to you? I understand the mm number... I just don't know what the others mean.

Thanks for your help.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Krioni

Hey, thanks for the pic of the lens... that is exactly what min looks like... so I guess I've got a decent zoom lens if I go with Canonl.

My lens says "Canon Zoom Lens EF 75-300mm 1:4-5.6 II" Do those numbers mean anything to you? I understand the mm number... I just don't know what the others mean.

Thanks for your help.

1:4-5.6 is the maximum focal length to aperture ratio the lens can achieve over it's focal range. so at 75 mm it can achieve f/4 at max, and at 300 mm it can achieve f/5.6 at max. II means it's the second version of that lens.

 

[Zenmervolt]

You might want to look at the new Sony A200. It should be coming in at around your price point with much better noise control than the A100 had. (And I still believe that the A100's noise was not limiting for 80%+ of users.)

ZV

 

[jpeyton]

If your goal is to capture portraits of your 2 year old for under $500:

Used Nikon D50 or D70s - ~$300-$350

Used Nikon 50mm f/1.8D - ~$100

Used Nikon SB-400 - ~$100

As you might have noticed, the keyword for the under $500 market is "used". Keep your eye on eBay listings and Craigslist postings. Seeing used bodies under $400 is commonplace.

For portraits, the best way to get your feet wet is with a fast prime lens. By "fast", I mean the "f-number", which for the lens I suggested is f/1.8. The lower the number, the "faster" the lens, meaning it has a bigger maximum aperture which allows for better low-light performance. The lower "f-number" also allows for a shallower depth-of-field, which is key in portraits for keeping the subject in sharp focus while blurring out the background details. Click here for some examples with this lens.

Finally, I suggested Nikon's least expensive digital speedlight, because it comes in handy for those indoor pictures where lighting is just too dim. Yes, most consumer level DSLRs have a built in flash. Unfortunately, direct camera flash produces dark shadows and eliminates background detail, producing P&S-digicam-style results. The SB-400 will at least allow you to bounce the flash off the ceiling; this evenly lights up the subject and the surroundings, producing natural lighting that results in much better portraits. If you have another $75, I would highly suggest the more versatile (also bigger, and more powerful) Nikon SB-600, which allows for a greater degree of adjustment. In photography, lighting is everything, so don't discount the need of a flash unit. Check out a SB-400 review here.

You can always sell your existing Canon zoom to increase your available budget. As your child gets old, I would highly suggest tracking down a telephoto zoom lens that has image stabilization in it, a fast fixed aperture (typically f/2.8 for telephotos), or both. That will help you grab those on-field or on-stage moments.

Also, don't worry too much about buying a used DSLR that is 2-3 years old. The camera's capabilities will exceed your skill when you're just starting out; if the urge for a better body arises, you can always upgrade in the future.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
You might want to look at the new Sony A200. It should be coming in at around your price point with much better noise control than the A100 had.

The A200 will be a ~$700 body, ~$900 with lens kit.

 

[soydios]

jpeyton, I agree with all that you said, except for the SB-400 part. It no longer does bounce flash of the ceiling when you rotate the camera to portrait orientation, while a used SB-600 could.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: soydios
jpeyton, I agree with all that you said, except for the SB-400 part. It no longer does bounce flash of the ceiling when you rotate the camera to portrait orientation, while a used SB-600 could.

Agreed; I bought an SB-600 myself when I found that out. But if his budget is tight, an SB-400 beats the on-camera flash 100% of the time.

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

The A200 will be a ~$700 body, ~$900 with lens kit.

$700 srp incl. the 18-70 kit lens - street will be lower but even then likely to be above his $500 budget.
The s/h market is probably the way to go at that price level imo.

 

[Krioni]

Is this the D70 you're referring to? Is so, that is approaching 4 years old... does DSLR technology stand up to time that much?

Also, what do you think would be fair prices for the D50 and D70 bodies?

Thanks to all of you guys for your incredibly informative posts. You guys really know your stuff!

Oh yeah, who is Craig and what is his list?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Krioni
Is this the D70 you're referring to? Is so, that is approaching 4 years old... does DSLR technology stand up to time that much?

I'm referring to the D70s, which was an update to the original D70. Review here. Don't get the original D70 unless you get an amazing price for it (<$250). Most D50/D70s you find on the market will be about 2-3 years old.

Yes, the D70s or D50 will give you great performance that is a big, noticeable upgrade from your P&S digicam. The quality of your images will be limited by your own skill, not the camera's capabilities, when you're starting out. I have a D50 (the D70s has a few more "pro" features), and a D80; there are very few images I've taken with the D80 that couldn't have been done with similar results on the D50.

Also, what do you think would be fair prices for the D50 and D70 bodies?

For the body only, $300-$350 is fair. Some include lenses; the Nikon 18-55mm kit lens is actually a very capable entry-level lens; the Nikon 18-70mm is the other kit lens, also a great performer; both will drive up the cost by $100-$200, and will not give you portraits as sharp as the 50mm prime. You can search completed auctions on eBay to see what they've sold for.

Oh yeah, who is Craig and what is his list?

Link Looks like the Birmingham market is pretty slow; bigger cities like the one I live near have lots of used DSLR bodies for sale.

 

[mtk220]

My grandson just came down for a visit and brought his girlfriend along. She had just recently purchased a refurbished (like brand new) Canon XT from B&H Photo (very reliable). She's just a kid and I am amazed at the quality of pictures coming out of that camera. I think it is every bit as good as some cameras priced much higher.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

I was impressed and I'm now thinking I am going to purchase an XTi for myself. (8MP vs. 10MP)

 

[noxel]

The Canon EOS 400D and the Nikon D40 both ship with 18-55mm zoom lens, although the 35mm equivalents are slightly different (because the cameras have slightly different sensors), with the Canon lens offering the equivalent of 29-88mm and the Nikon 27-83mm. The Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 comes with an 18-70mm lens, or 27-105mm in 35mm terms and the Olympus E-410 comes in a twin-lens kit with 14-42mm and 40-150mm lenses, or 28-84mm and 80-300mm in 35mm terms.


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"Technology""Great Work, Life's Easy bec. of Technology"

 

[DrPizza]

Yes, I'm familiar with her work. She has a natural eye for composition. We actually had her take our son's senior portraits for high school. She did an outstanding job.

Oh, and "Hi, Dad."

 

[tfinch2]

Olympus E-510

 

[foghorn67]

Pentax, some of the deals are too hard to pas up.

 

[Heidfirst]

A200 is now $599 list incl. 18-70 & even cheaper street.
Interestingly I saw a comment on the forums today from a chap who works in a camera shop & all the staff (4 Canon users, 3 Nikon, 1 Sony & 1 Olympus) bar 1 think that the A200 is the best current starter DSLR.

 

[virtuamike]

You can find used D70's and D100's for pretty cheap ($300-350). Tack on a used 18-70 kit lens for about $200 and you're good to go.

 

[Krioni]

Sorry guys... I guess I should have updated this post.

I ended up getting a used Nikon D50 with a 55-200mm lens for $320 shipped on eBay.

I quickly added a used 18-55mm(kit) lens for another $70ish and an old film 50mm f/1.8 prime for $20 shipped.

I've been using it and have LOVED getting into photography.

Here are a few samples I've taken with my D50

BTW, Thanks to ALL of you who have helped me here at AT!

 

[soydios]

:thumbsup: on the D50. I :heart: mine.