Please help with components selection of my new build

anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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Sorry for some of the confusions in previous posts. To summarize: I am not a gamer nor a miner. I want to build a high-end research workstation for doing CUDA-GPU computations. I know that for gaming, PCIe 3.0 at x8 is sufficient but for my work, x16 makes a big difference. At first I chose the 7900X since it allows many lanes and supports AVX-512 which could be useful for some scientific computations. However, after hearing from a colleague that there could be a performance hit due to the Meltdown and Spectre patches, I decided not to invest big money on a buggy system. Instead, I planned to build and use a temporary system until Intel releases a CPU (Cascade Lake?) with these bugs removed at hardware level. I heard that it should be out in the 2nd half of this year so I chose to build a less expensive i7-8700K system with one x16 GPU slot. Components prices change almost daily and sometimes they jump up and down by thundered of dollars. One day, I found that at about $350 more, I could build a Threadripper system with more lanes and have two GPUs running at x16x16 concurrently. Meanwhile, Intel just announced that there is a delay in 10nm CPUs to 2019. Looks like there are lots of confusions and unpredictable factors. Here are my questions:

1. Does that mean those CPUs with Meltdown/Spectre bugs fixed at hardware level won't be out until next year?

2, In this situation, is the Threadripper platform the best way to go?

3. For the ROG Zenith Extreme motherboard, If I assign two high-end GPUs (1080Ti or higher up) to do CUDA computations and add a slower GPU to the system only to drive a 4K monitor, will this slower GPU become a bottleneck and slow down the other two high end GPUs?

4. I heard that on some motherboards, if you add some devices such as nmve m.2 SSD to the system, the performance of the GPU will slow down because new devices and existing GPUs compete for lanes and they have to share. How about this motherboard? At most how may nmve m.2 and SATA III SSD can I add without affecting the performance of the GPUs?

5. I read that unlike the other two ASUS X399 motherboards, this motherboard allows the use of nmve m.2 ssd to become RAM. What is the advantage doing so given that DDR4 RAM is much faster than SSD even of nmve m.2 type.
 

lakedude

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Mar 14, 2009
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5. I read that unlike the other two ASUS X399 motherboards, this motherboard allows the use of nmve m.2 ssd to become RAM. What is the advantage doing so given that DDR4 RAM is much faster than SSD even of nmve m.2 type.
This is a matter of size vs speed. Memory and storage in general are arranged in a pyramid with the smallest but fastest cache memory at the top and slow but large storage hard drives on the bottom. There are several layers to this pyramid depending on which processor we are specifically talking about. Only the very fastest most expensive level 1 cache is really fast enough to keep up with the processor. Next generally comes level 2 and perhaps level 3 cache. Eventually we get to main memory (RAM) and after that historically to the hard drive. With the advent of SSDs we now have even more layers, which is nice but perhaps a bit confusing. RAM is a curious thing because if you have enough adding more will not help you. If you don't have enough adding more will be a huge benefit.

So getting back to the question. If your RAM is sufficient you most likely do not need to use the m2 SSD as a RAM substitute, however if you are maxing out your RAM, either physically or due to budget the m2 could help.
 

UsandThem

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May 4, 2000
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So getting back to the question. If your RAM is sufficient you most likely do not need to use the m2 SSD as a RAM substitute, however if you are maxing out your RAM, either physically or due to budget the m2 could help.

And everything I have read from our resident SSD RAM cache testing person (BonzaiDuck), his findings were it wasn't worth doing it (and not to mention you run into some stability issues. So selecting enough DDR4 for your needs is the way to go.
 

anandtechreader

Senior member
Apr 12, 2018
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This is a matter of size vs speed. Memory and storage in general are arranged in a pyramid with the smallest but fastest cache memory at the top and slow but large storage hard drives on the bottom. There are several layers to this pyramid depending on which processor we are specifically talking about. Only the very fastest most expensive level 1 cache is really fast enough to keep up with the processor. Next generally comes level 2 and perhaps level 3 cache. Eventually we get to main memory (RAM) and after that historically to the hard drive. With the advent of SSDs we now have even more layers, which is nice but perhaps a bit confusing. RAM is a curious thing because if you have enough adding more will not help you. If you don't have enough adding more will be a huge benefit.

So getting back to the question. If your RAM is sufficient you most likely do not need to use the m2 SSD as a RAM substitute, however if you are maxing out your RAM, either physically or due to budget the m2 could help.

Thanks. In my case, 32GB is the minimum 64GB would be better. Because of big data, I may need 128GB in the future. If I buy a 16GBx4 Kit now, I may have compatibility issue if I buy another kit several months later which may happen to be from a different batch.
 

whm1974

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Jul 24, 2016
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Thanks. In my case, 32GB is the minimum 64GB would be better. Because of big data, I may need 128GB in the future. If I buy a 16GBx4 Kit now, I may have compatibility issue if I buy another kit several months later which may happen to be from a different batch.
Then it sounds like ThreadRipper or Intel's Xeons are your best bet.
 

lakedude

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Mar 14, 2009
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It seems we are in agreement. Also I defer to UsandThem's superior and more specific knowledge.
 

anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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And everything I have read from our resident SSD RAM cache testing person (BonzaiDuck), his findings were it wasn't worth doing it (and not to mention you run into some stability issues. So selecting enough DDR4 for your needs is the way to go.

Thanks. Will take that in mind.
 

UsandThem

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May 4, 2000
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anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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Then it sounds like ThreadRipper or Intel's Xeons are your best bet.

Thanks. Many years ago, Xeons required more expensive, slower ECC RAM. Is it still the same?
I think the Xeons also suffer from Meltdown and Spectre issues. They are also more expensive. When I checked last year, those with a W in the naming cost about $2K. So in a dual-CPU system, CPUs alone cost me $4K.

In terms of X399 motherborads, how is the Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7 and Designare EX compared with the ASUS's? I don't know about the X399 version of the Designre EX but I read that the GA-X99-Designare EX has PEX that sounds good (x16/x16/x16) on the surface but in reality, users are not getting it. Using multiple GPUs and storage handicap the bandwidth which results in bottlenecks when the users are trying to push graphics and storage systems to the limit simultaneously. Since I want 2-3 GPUs running concurrently at top x16 speed, this is not what I want to see in my motherboard. In general, is ASUS motherboards better than Gigabyte's? I am trying to find a motherboard that has high memory bandwidth, allows me to run 2-3 GPUs concurrently at top x16 speed, has wifi feature, and at the same time compatible with Ubuntu Linux and hopefully Hackintosh as well.

P.S. I may install more than one GPUs but SLI is not required.
 
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UsandThem

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Another question for you, but why did you select the Asus motherboard rather than one like the Asrock Taichi? That's the one I see most use here for their Threadripper builds. @Markfw has several builds with that particular motherboard, and has nothing bad to say about it.
 

anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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Another question for you, but why did you select the Asus motherboard rather than one like the Asrock Taichi? That's the one I see most use here for their Threadripper builds. @Markfw has several builds with that particular motherboard, and has nothing bad to say about it.

I heard that ASUS is the best manufacturer in motherboards? The Zenith Extreme has a unique heat sink for the motherboard to keep it cool. I considered the Taichi. I don't remember why I did not choose it. Perhaps because it has only 4 RAM slots?

I know the Fatal1ty X399 Professional Gaming and Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7 are compatible with Linux. The AORUS Gaming 7 can also be Hackintoshed. However, somewhere I read that Gigabyte motherboards are not as good as ASUS's. Actually, how are these four boards compared with ASUS's? Forget about Prime X399 A as it has no wifi. As I recall, when Threadripper came out, AMD sent only the Zenith Extreme to all reviewers. People just said it is the most feature-rich.
 
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anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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Have you thought about using AMD's EPYC? Just a thought.

I considered it but did not move forward because less people use it means less support. It also suffers from Meltdown and Spectre. I think it is similar in pricing as the 7900X. Don't want to spend over 1K on a CPU that has such issues especially CPUs with problems to be removed at hardware level should be out latter this year. However, with Intel's recent announcement on the delay in production of 10nm CPUs, not sure if it means longer waiting til next year. Anybody knows more about this?
 

Markfw

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May 16, 2002
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I heard that ASUS is the best manufacturer in motherboards? The Zenith Extreme has a unique heat sink for the motherboard to keep it cool. I considered the Taichi. I don't remember why I did not choose it. Perhaps because it has only 4 RAM slots?

I know the Fatal1ty X399 Professional Gaming and Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7 are compatible with Linux. The AORUS Gaming 7 can also be Hackintoshed. However, somewhere I read that Gigabyte motherboards are not as good as ASUS's. Actually, how are these four boards compared with ASUS's? Forget about Prime X399 A as it has no wifi. As I recall, when Threadripper came out, AMD sent only the Zenith Extreme to all reviewers. People just said it is the most feature-rich.
I think that the Taichi is much better than ASUS. Also, the Taichi has 8 memory slots. get 4x16 gig PC3200 This kit: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232208

Also NO AMD CPU, EPYC included suffers from meltdown, only spectre, and the performance hit on that for AMD is almost nothing.
If you have any threadripper questions, I have 4 1950x's.

Also, I highly recommend the Enermax 360 TR4 to cool it, as its quiet, and efficient.
 

dlerious

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Mar 4, 2004
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I heard that ASUS is the best manufacturer? I considered the Taichi. I don't remember why I did not choose it. Perhaps because it has only 4 RAM slots?

I know the Fatal1ty X399 Professional Gaming and Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7 are compatible with Linux. The AORUS Gaming 7 can also be Hackintoshed. However, somewhere I read that Gigabyte X399 board is not as good as ASUS's. How are these four boards compared with ASUS's? Forget about Prime X399 A as it has no wifi. As I recall, when Threadripper came out, AMD sent only the Zenith Extreme to all reviewers.
In my experience, most (if not all) manufacturers have hardware that is sub-par and other hardware that is top-notch. I usually find a handful of parts I'm interested in based on criteria for my use case; price, performance, support, warranty are some of the factors. Then I do research like looking for reviews to narrow the choices down. I'm interested in negatives just as much as positives, so I'll throw out things like "greatest motherboard ever" or "biggest piece of crap". I want to know why or how those reviewers come to their conclusion.
 

anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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I think that the Taichi is much better than ASUS. Also, the Taichi has 8 memory slots. get 4x16 gig PC3200 This kit: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232208

Also NO AMD CPU, EPYC included suffers from meltdown, only spectre, and the performance hit on that for AMD is almost nothing.
If you have any threadripper questions, I have 4 1950x's.

Also, I highly recommend the Enermax 360 TR4 to cool it, as its quiet, and efficient.

If I go for the Threadripper path, I will get the 1900X since it has the highest base clock with the same number of lanes. No need to pay more for the extra cores. Better save the money to upgrade to Threadripper 2. Do you think Threadripper 2 will have AVX-512 support? If I go for the EPYC, which model do you recommend?

What do you think of the Fatal1ty X399 Professional Gaming compared with the Taichi? How many double-slot GPUs can they accommodate? I think Nvidia 1080Ti and more advanced GPUs are 2-slot wide.

First I considered the Nocta but the larger 14 version blocks the 1st GPU slot of the Zenith Extreme. Then, I read that the 12 version is not good enough if I OC. Then, I read about the Enermax 360 TR4. Do I need to worry that water may leak out and damage all these expensive components?
 
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anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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In my experience, most (if not all) manufacturers have hardware that is sub-par and other hardware that is top-notch. I usually find a handful of parts I'm interested in based on criteria for my use case; price, performance, support, warranty are some of the factors. Then I do research like looking for reviews to narrow the choices down. I'm interested in negatives just as much as positives, so I'll throw out things like "greatest motherboard ever" or "biggest piece of crap". I want to know why or how those reviewers come to their conclusion.

As far as I recall, they mentioned something about power choke and said that Asus's motherboards use "true" something and the Gigabyte's ones aren't. Thus, Asus's ones are better. Not sure what they were talking about.
 

UsandThem

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May 4, 2000
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As far as I recall, they mentioned something about power choke and said that Asus's motherboards use "true" something and the Gigabyte's ones aren't. Thus, Asus's ones are better. Not sure what they were talking about.

Most of that will be marketing jargon, much like "gaming" motherboards, or "military grade".

There are review sites that inspects the build quality of motherboards, and most boards from the various competitors use a lot of the same build quality in the various pricing brackets. A lot of time the differences will come down to things like BIOS support (how often they provide updates after releasing the board), and build quality (heatsinks make good contact with what they are cooling, etc).
 

anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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Another problem is that over 30 years ago, we could rely on good reviews from professional magazines such as Byte Magazine, PC Magazine, etc. These days, there are too many reviews on the internet and youtube. I have not heard of the name of most of these sources. Can't tell the validity and reliability of those reviews.
 

Markfw

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May 16, 2002
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If I go for the Threadripper path, I will get the 1900X since it has the highest base clock with the same number of lanes. No need to pay more for the extra cores. Better save the money to upgrade to Threadripper 2. Do you think Threadripper 2 will have AVX-512 support? If I go for the EPYC, which model do you recommend?

What do you think of the Fatal1ty X399 Professional Gaming compared with the Taichi? How many double-slot GPUs can they accommodate? I think Nvidia 1080Ti and more advanced GPUs are 2-slot wide.

First I considered the Nocta but the larger 14 version blocks the 1st GPU slot of the Zenith Extreme. Then, I read that the 12 version is not good enough if I OC. Then, I read about the Enermax 360 TR4. Do I need to worry that water may leak out and damage all these expensive components?
Well, I would still go for the 1950x. You can run 3.8 at stock vcore all day at 100% load. (46c)

In all 4 of my 1950x/taichi boxes, I have dual 1080TI's. They can fit 4, but for proper cooling for 4, you would have to get the blower style video cards that I hate.

AVX-512 ? no idea if they will have that.

If you go EPYC, they run at almost half the speed, and are twice the price. I would not unless you need 128 threads.

Edit: and water ? Well, I have 4 that have run 100%load 24/7 for almost 365 days, and no leaks yet....
I got the Taichi for basic functionality, reliability and quality. The power delivery is great.
 

whm1974

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Jul 24, 2016
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Well, I would still go for the 1950x. You can run 3.8 at stock vcore all day at 100% load. (46c)

In all 4 of my 1950x/taichi boxes, I have dual 1080TI's. They can fit 4, but for proper cooling for 4, you would have to get the blower style video cards that I hate.

AVX-512 ? no idea if they will have that.

If you go EPYC, they run at almost half the speed, and are twice the price. I would not unless you need 128 threads.

Edit: and water ? Well, I have 4 that have run 100%load 24/7 for almost 365 days, and no leaks yet....
I got the Taichi for basic functionality, reliability and quality. The power delivery is great.
So for the OP, you would recommend Threadripper?
 

anandtechreader

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Apr 12, 2018
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Am I correct that even the Threadripper has 64 lanes, no motherboard can offer more than 2 GPUs running concurrently at top x16 speed?
 

UsandThem

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May 4, 2000
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Another problem is that over 30 years ago, we could rely on good reviews from professional magazines such as Byte Magazine, PC Magazine, etc. These days, there are too many reviews on the internet and youtube. I have not heard of the name of most of these sources. Can't tell the validity and reliability of those reviews.

Anandtech still tests motherboards the way I mentioned above (circuit, build, component inspection), the problem is they just don't review many motherboards anymore, and when they do the board has been out for a long time. For motherboard reviews I count on actual user's reviews/thoughts, and I also read the review if it's available at Hardware Canucks and Tweaktown (crazy amount of ads there). However, they both do an excellent job on in-depth reviews of motherboards.

Here is one for the Fatal1ty X399: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...9-professional-gaming-motherboard-review.html

One for the X399 Taichi: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8...hreadripper-tr4-motherboard-review/index.html
 

Markfw

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May 16, 2002
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Am I correct that even the Threadripper has 64 lanes, no motherboard can offer more than 2 GPUs running concurrently at top x16 speed?
I thought it was 128 lanes, but I don't have time to research that right now.

Edit, wrong, from the specs: quad at x16 (PCIE1) / x8 (PCIE2) / x16 (PCIE4) / x8 (PCIE5))*
 
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