Please help me build system

[Muse]

I've built a few systems in the past but the last one was in 2008 with a Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro mobo. The SATA controller on that thing sucks! I don't think it supports more than 500GB HDs, and it does a lousy job with those. The info I got was that I couldn't upgrade from XP with that mobo, so that's what I'm running on it. I'm writing HDTV data to external HDs with it, and wearing them out (have had several failures of WD Elements 2TB and 3TB external HDs using that system).

I have an ATX case. In fact, I have two of them, they are mid-tower systems and I figure I should really rebuild them both -- New mobos, CPU, RAM.

Now, I am currently using them both for HDTV recording/playback. The 2nd system only on occasion, if I need to record a concurrent program. Both systems have their own MyHD MDP-130 HDTV PCI card, each with a daughterboard that doesn't have a slot but plugs into the PCI card (so there has to be room for the daughterboard in the system). I don't know if this is a potential issue, both my current mobos have space for the daughterboard next to the last PCI slot.

The more PCI slots the better, depending on the capabilities of the mobos. If they have built in modem, then I can dispense with my PCI modem card, although I use that only very occasionally, maybe I can get that with one of my laptops. I have a PCI slotted sound card (the Hercules Game Theater XP, which has a nice breakout box with a lot of connections, so I like that). I have a PCI firewire card, which would be nice to have, but firewire built in would free up a PCI slot.

Built in video would be nice, but right now I'm using a BFG Tech GeForce 6600GT OC 128MB DDR3 AGP Dual DVI Video Card w/TV-Out ------ which I like for the dual DVI (I do dual monitor using DVI).

So, in a nutshell:

Mobos (2)
I figure at least 8GB RAM in each system, 16GB would be nice
AMD or Intel CPU (whatever's giving me the options I want)
Dual digital monitor connectivity for at least one of the systems (DVI or HDMI, I guess proper cables make either one equivalent to the other).
Support for modern high capacity HDs (I just bought a couple Western Digital 3TB Red 5400 rpm SATA III 3.5" Internal NAS HDDs for these systems)
As many PCI slots as possible:
---> in order of importance for PCI are
1. HDTV card (with room for the daughterboard)
2. PCI slot for sound card on at least one of the systems
3. Onboard modem or PCI slot for PCI modem card on one of the systems
4. Onboard firewire or PCI slot for PCI firewire card on one of the systems
5. Separate video cards if mobos don't have that built in

I figure to run Windows 7 or 10. Thanks for help on this!

 

[UsandThem]

The more PCI slots the better, depending on the capabilities of the mobos. If they have built in modem, then I can dispense with my PCI modem card, although I use that only very occasionally, maybe I can get that with one of my laptops. I have a PCI slotted sound card (the Hercules Game Theater XP, which has a nice breakout box with a lot of connections, so I like that). I have a PCI firewire card, which would be nice to have, but firewire built in would free up a PCI slot.

Now here are requirements I haven't seen in a very long time. This might take a little time to research because the PCI slot and FireWire has gone the way of the Dodo bird. Plus, I'm not sure of the driver situation for the sound card and modem for Windows 10.

 

[UsandThem]

Before I start looking, what is your desired budget for everything?

Based on your need for multiple PCI slots, for an Intel setup you are going to be looking at LGA1150 boards (h97, z97, etc).

 

[Muse]

Before I start looking, what is your desired budget for everything?

Based on your need for multiple PCI slots, for an Intel setup you are going to be looking at LGA1150 boards (h97, z97, etc).

Budget. Well, hope for under $1000 for the pair, I suppose. I'm not on a strict budget.

I'm not gaming. The MyHD HDTV cards, assuming I continue to use them, have processors on board, so they pretty much don't impact the CPU, etc. The power of the system isn't very important, I figure. Only reason I want much RAM is so I can have a lot of browser tabs open without the browser slowing down, latency or crashing. The sound card? Well, I can probably get by without using that anymore, but won't know until I try. I have it hooked up to a 5.1 stereo system, also a separate amp for headphones. Like I say, modem I can probably get with my laptops, although I haven't tried that. I rarely send/receive faxes, but it happens.

Only reason I want firewire is because I have some old hand-held video recorder tapes that I want to digitize. I did digitize them years ago, I might have the AVI files, have to search. If I can't find those, I'll want to use firewire to grab the AVI files (in real time off the recorder).

 

[Ketchup]

I am pretty sure any on-board audio would outperform a pci-slot audio card. And you would have a very hard time finding drivers for Windows 10 for such cards.

And that's what I suggest you look into first. See if anything you plan to put in this machine in compatible with Windows 10. As long as you keep a system, don't waste money on 7. Let us know what parts you will need to replace so we can work this into your budget.

 

[UsandThem]

Here's what I came up with. It's a lot to look for, but I think I had most of your requirements from the "So, in a nutshell" section:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/r8qKKZ

$435

i3-4160
Asrock Z97 Anniversary (7.1 onboard sound, 2 x PCI slots)
2 x 16GB DDR3 RAM (couldn't find any that was on the motherboard QVL, but don't have time to look at all the RAM right now)
SSD
Video card with 2 x DVI + HDMI.
500w EVGA PSU (8.4 score at JonnyGuru)

This leaves a little extra in case you wanted a more powerful CPU, better video card, etc. At least it's a starting point......

 

[Muse]

Here's what I came up with. It's a lot to look for, but I think I had most of your requirements from the "So, in a nutshell" section:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/r8qKKZ

$435

i3-4160
Asrock Z97 Anniversary (7.1 onboard sound, 2 x PCI slots)
2 x 16GB DDR3 RAM (couldn't find any that was on the motherboard QVL, but don't have time to look at all the RAM right now)
SSD
Video card with 2 x DVI + HDMI.
500w EVGA PSU (8.4 score at JonnyGuru)

This leaves a little extra in case you wanted a more powerful CPU, better video card, etc. At least it's a starting point......

Thank you. That looks interesting.

So, the video card is to give me the 2nd DVI, I take it. That PSU, I'm wondering. My #1 system has this right now: Corsair vx550w PSU. The #2 system has a cheapie PSU, IIRC, but it's not terrible. Could use a better one.

I'm researching if my MyHD HDTV cards will work OK with Windows 10. I'm agreeing that the old Hercules PCI sound card may not work OK with Windows 10. The drivers are very old. It may be time to scrap the card + breakout box. The quality of the sound isn't my biggest concern, my ears are so so! Connectivity is what I'm thinking about. Audio in/out, sufficient connections.

An SSD is an idea I like. I actually have an old SSD that's never been used (had it for 4 years), maybe I can use it for the #2 system, it's an Intel 520 120GB SSD.

I looked high and low. Can't find the AVI files I ripped from the video tapes I made way back when. I think they were on one or more HDs that died. I suppose I can rip again using my old #2 system, which has the firewire card in it. I kind of doubt that card would work in a Windows 10 system! It was a super cheap card to begin with, probably can't get another driver for it.

Edit: I'm told that the MyHD cards are a no-go in Windows 10:

"You must run the PC in XP-compatibility mode and doing so introduces a memory leak such that the PC strangles itself after less than 2 hours of play and then needs to be rebooted."

I presume they work in Windows 7, but I'm going to confirm that.

 

[UsandThem]

On-board audio (and the available connections) have come a long way since you probably last looked at it. I had a Creative X-Fi Titianium card for years with Windows 7. When I upgraded to my Skylake system with Windows 10, I installed the card as the sound was very good for so many years. However, there were horrible driver issues with Creative at the time, and it would only work maybe 50% of the time, and the only way to fix it was restarting the computer. So I took it out and used my on-board audio. I was blown away how good it sounded from the last time I tried using it (2003 I think). Stable drivers and solid performance made me a big fan.

Since your system is older, like you have found out, there will be some support issues with your older hardware. It does suck, but if you are able to live without any of those components, Windows 10 is really a great OS (especially as many of the kinks have been worked out with a year + of updates, and drivers from other companies are now pretty mature. I don't think I've had one crash/bluescreen in well over a year now, and I have my PC always doing something.

Having a SSD with the OS on it is probably the best purchase people can make. Using a computer with a regular hard drive feels so horribly slow after experiencing the almost instantaneous speed of a SSD. I'd rather have a slower CPU and a SSD over a top-of-the-line one with a regular hard drive.

 

[Muse]

Thanks, UsandThem, really appreciate the help... I need it!

I will try the onboard audio, what you say has me optimistic.

I'm told my HDTV cards should work like champs in Windows 7 32bit, but in XP Compatibility mode only. Also told in the same breath that in running Win7 32bit I will only have support for 4GB of RAM, so should save dough on that and just get 4GB RAM.

The video card makes sense in that I want dual DVI (In the HDTV card's forum thread I linked to your pcparts list, really cool, thanks for that!).

I have Windows 10 on two of my laptops, one runs an Intel 520 180GB SSD, the other a 640GB HD. The one with the HD actually had a blue screen (the only one I've seen) the other day, it just popped up a message (wasn't the old BSOD deep blue, but a kind of gray-blue) and said the machine had an error and needed to reboot, which it did automatically. No problems since, have no idea what was the cause.

Well, apparently if I want to put Windows 10 on the mid-tower systems I'll have to abandon the MyHD HDTV cards and go to another setup for my HDTV. I'm been advised to do that several times and did shop stuff a year or two ago but didn't buy anything. Partly because I have been able to get by with what I have, just have to tolerate some nasty issues, such as a very recurrent lip-synch problem (that clears up if you hit the FF/REW buttons a time or two or three ( ), and an occasional machine lock-up (those are always fun!).

I'm told that my lip-synch issue is not to be expected with my HDTV cards, I think that moving the cards to new motherboards is apt to resolve that. I'm guessing that the crashes are likewise apt to disappear if I improve the equipment.

With a new HDTV card or external device I'd need all-new software, file processing techniques (i.e. editing), it would be a new set of issues. Yes, eventually I think I might like it a lot more but it might take some time, some hiccups, a learning curve. Some day I suppose I'll move on from the MyHD cards, I'm a stubborn holdout, apparently. I've had at least one MyHD card since 2004, and have developed some pretty cool and efficient use methods, my own take on dealing with recordings. I never watch live, just time-shift, even if just a few minutes.

My SSD laptop (this one), well my story is not the one you usually hear. Everyone talks like you do that their SSD-based PC (with the OS on the SSD!), is way faster, a dream compared to their experiences using HD based systems. I held out a long time, finally bought a couple SSDs, held onto them quite a while and finally installed one on this laptop (the 180GB). The other SSD I didn't install partly because my main midtower's motherboard won't run it. On this machine (which has the 180GB Intel SSD, which I have in two partitions) I used to get very nasty delays. The machine would just freeze up for minutes at a time, up to 3-4-5 minutes! This would happen on average at least once a day, often several times! I tried a lot of things to fix the problem but what did solve it was installing Windows 10! I'd seen a post at a Lenovo forum from a guy who said he had the exact same system as mine and had those delays until he upgraded from Win7 to Win10. To my delight, making the same upgrade rid me of that horrible problem.

 

[Torn Mind]

If UsandThem is talking about the audio on the board listed in his sig, it is a Realtek ALC1150 codec.

 

[UsandThem]

If UsandThem is talking about the audio on the board listed in his sig, it is a Realtek ALC1150 codec.

I am, but also the on-board audio on one son's computer has an Asus Z97 board with ALC892, and it sounds pretty good as well (I didn't even put the sound card in that machine).

Also, I think it truly comes down to is what components/capacitors and audio isolation the Realtek codec is applied to on the motherboard. For example, good boards will isolate the audio signal away from other parts of the motherboard, use high-quality caps, and some even have a built-in amp. So a cheap board may still use the ALC1150 codec, but for cost reasons they cut back on what hardware they use for the audio, and it could sound horrible.

So short version: The ALC892 and ALC1150 are simply codecs, it depends on what audio controller/components they choose to pair it up with.

 

[Torn Mind]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...24&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=36
Newegg's sorting is nice, but you should check prices elsewhere.

Seems like some Skylake boards do have 3 PCI slots. I think that can let you hold on to your HDTV card, modem, and Firewire just fine.

It is definitely is time to move on from your old video card sound card. Heck, I would bet that even Skylake's integrated graphics would beat them. That Hercules still can fetch a pretty penny on Amazon.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I question the wisdom of getting a really newer platform, if you're planning on running such old legacy hardware, like PCI cards, and limiting yourself to 4GB of RAM and 32-bit Windows, presumably because those PCI capture cards won't work with 64-bit OSes or more RAM. (Seen that before.)

I would give some serious thought to investing in an Intel-chipset, Socket 775 motherboard or two. Yes, they would be used, but something like a Gigabyte EP45 board would probably fit the bill, and I saw one in the FS/FT forum recently for mostly cheap, and I have one myself that I would be willing to let go for mostly cheap too.

 

[Iron Woode]

Here's what I came up with. It's a lot to look for, but I think I had most of your requirements from the "So, in a nutshell" section:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/r8qKKZ

$435

i3-4160
Asrock Z97 Anniversary (7.1 onboard sound, 2 x PCI slots)
2 x 16GB DDR3 RAM (couldn't find any that was on the motherboard QVL, but don't have time to look at all the RAM right now)
SSD
Video card with 2 x DVI + HDMI.
500w EVGA PSU (8.4 score at JonnyGuru)

This leaves a little extra in case you wanted a more powerful CPU, better video card, etc. At least it's a starting point......

that is not a bad setup.

However, I would go with the Asrock H97 Pro4. It has better sound and 2 pci slots.

I made a similar PC and it works great. I used the same I3 with the H97 Pro4 and 8GB of ram. Loved it.

I now have an I5 4690K and a GTX 1060 3Gb and love it even more. great sound and performance.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Get the old video encoded while one of the old boxes still works. Backwards compatibility and running in XP mode is just asking for all sorts of issues. Then dump all the legacy junk and start fresh with up to date HTPC.

 

[Muse]

Get the old video encoded while one of the old boxes still works. Backwards compatibility and running in XP mode is just asking for all sorts of issues. Then dump all the legacy junk and start fresh with up to date HTPC.

Maybe the best ideas. However, I have my usage patterns:

I timeshift almost exclusively. I often enter a recording while in progress. I watch from a chair about 8 feet from my PC, using a remote control (universal). I can REW/FF, have option to FF, FF x 2, FF x 8, only one REW action possible. The amount of time for FF and REW is configurable but I seldom change it and always set it back to 10 seconds each way.

I have worked out ways to cut out portions of timeshifts and save them for later watching.The great majority of the time, I just erase my timeshift when I'm done watching it. I save some for later, usually because I haven't watched it and want to.

Presently, I'm doing all this with OTA programming only (have two rooftop antennas). Being able to do all this with subscription TV is something I think about. However, I'd prefer to not pay a monthly fee to rent a DVR device. Right now I have no fees whatever other than my electric bill!

I rip movies to disk, not HD. I tried ripping to HD, wasn't pleased with the results of my experiments, however I'm aware that a lot of people do that. I have no subscription to movie services (i.e. Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, whatever). I get most of my disks from my library. I do buy some, usually TV series in sets. Not a ton, just a few. A lot of those I haven't gotten around to watching or finishing. I'm not big into TV, TBH. I watch a fair amount of sports, some news, occasionally some other stuff, but not a lot.

Obviously, at the very least I need a new mobo, CPU, video card, RAM. I figure I'm going to try to figure out some of this this week.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

You could build a 64 bit Win7 box and try the older cards. If they work great. If not you bite the bullet and get a newer tuner that will work with 64 bit OS

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...16028&cm_re=tuner_card-_-15-116-028-_-Product

Looks like you might want a win7 box anyways for the included mpeg decoder. win10 ditched the decoder.

 

[Muse]

I question the wisdom of getting a really newer platform, if you're planning on running such old legacy hardware, like PCI cards, and limiting yourself to 4GB of RAM and 32-bit Windows, presumably because those PCI capture cards won't work with 64-bit OSes or more RAM. (Seen that before.)

I would give some serious thought to investing in an Intel-chipset, Socket 775 motherboard or two. Yes, they would be used, but something like a Gigabyte EP45 board would probably fit the bill, and I saw one in the FS/FT forum recently for mostly cheap, and I have one myself that I would be willing to let go for mostly cheap too.

Looking, I'm seeing different versions of the Gigabyte EP45 board, 3 PCI and 2 PCI supported. What do you have?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think that it's a UD3R (3 PCI). It hasn't been in service for a couple of years, I could test it if you really want me to. It came out of a friend's box that I helped him build new some years back. Includes 2x2GB DDR2-800, and a Q8200 I think.

 

[Muse]

I think that it's a UD3R (3 PCI). It hasn't been in service for a couple of years, I could test it if you really want me to. It came out of a friend's box that I helped him build new some years back. Includes 2x2GB DDR2-800, and a Q8200 I think.

Sounds good. So, to get my dual DVI I'd want a separate video card?

 

[VirtualLarry]

P35 / P45 chipset doesn't have any sort of IGP on it, so you would need a video card regardless.

I can include a free 9600GSO video card, with dual-DVI on it. (Though, I don't know if they are dual-link DVI. Do you need that too? Cards with dual, dual-link DVI, may be hard to find, although, I think my HD4850 reference cards will do that.)

 

[Muse]

P35 / P45 chipset doesn't have any sort of IGP on it, so you would need a video card regardless.

I can include a free 9600GSO video card, with dual-DVI on it. (Though, I don't know if they are dual-link DVI. Do you need that too? Cards with dual, dual-link DVI, may be hard to find, although, I think my HD4850 reference cards will do that.)

I have never heard of dual link. What I'm using now is a BFG Tech GeForce 6600GT OC 128MB DDR3 AGP Dual DVI Video Card w/TV-Out. I suppose that's not dual link? Of course, I can't use that on that mobo because it doesn't have AGP, I assume.

So, yeah, that video card would seem to work OK for me. Does the mobo have 3 PCI? How much do you want for this stuff? Post here or PM, whatever you like!

 

[VirtualLarry]

standard DVI-D and HDMI max out at 1920x1200 @ 60Hz. To go higher than that, over DVI, required DVI-D DL.

For example, those so-called "Korean monitors", that are 2560x1440 with DVI interfaces. Those require DVI-D DL interfaces. If you want to run two of them, you'll need a card with dual DVI-D DL interfaces, which can be somewhat rare. (Though, I think that my VisionTek reference HD4850 card will do that.)

 

[Muse]

standard DVI-D and HDMI max out at 1920x1200 @ 60Hz. To go higher than that, over DVI, required DVI-D DL.

For example, those so-called "Korean monitors", that are 2560x1440 with DVI interfaces. Those require DVI-D DL interfaces. If you want to run two of them, you'll need a card with dual DVI-D DL interfaces, which can be somewhat rare. (Though, I think that my VisionTek reference HD4850 card will do that.)

My desktop monitor is:

Samsung S23a350H LED/LCD 23" monitor HDMI/VGA 1920x1080 native res.

My PJ is also 1920x1080 native res, although I think that res is set up by the HDTV card, as the output to the PJ is done through that card.

I presume that card can handle 1920x1080. The other desktop monitor is just 1280 x 1024.

Are there 2 or is it 3 PCI slots on that Gigabyte mobo? It's not a giant issue, I guess, but a 3rd PCI slot would help. Curious too about the audio on that mobo. Might be able to run my old Hercules GTXP on it using a PCI slot, or maybe it wouldn't work well on Win7, just don't know.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EVGA-80-PLU...upply-Black-/201650469528?hash=item2ef34dfa98

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermaltake...upply-Black-/322233905628?hash=item4b06a331dc