Please Help! Is this a brown recluse??

[DrPizza]

No brown recluses in this area (Western NY), but that hasn't stopped people from ending up in the E.R. with brown recluse bites. Apparently they're rare in this area, but do exist.

 

[Ichinisan]

No brown recluses in this area (Western NY), but that hasn't stopped people from ending up in the E.R. with brown recluse bites. Apparently they're rare in this area, but do exist.

http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html

 

[Artdeco]

You still haven't told us that she saw a spider bite her and then developed necrotic flesh at the site of the bite. I could not be more clear that this is what is missing from the majority of brown recluse bite diagnoses.

I saw a spider that wasn't black too. If I get a necrotising flesh condition, does that mean I was bitten by a brown recluse?

I am not belittling what happened. I am pointing out a real problem and asking questions which none of your answers have satisfied. If she really did get bit by a spider and developed a necrotic wound as a result: I'm sorry, but it happens. The problem is that it often happens from unknown things that aren't even spider bites. The one thing we know that sometimes does cause it is a brown recluse, though most brown recluse bites do not have this effect. Most diagnoses are making assumptions about the cause of the necrotic wound which leads to FAR more diagnoses than actual recluse bites could be responsible for.



This is the EXACT circular reasoning I was talking about. Other spider bites DO often result in identical wounds. So do incidents that could not even be classified as a "bite."

http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html

Actually, no... There 11 some spiders in the br's species, and the venom is different from other spiders.

https://uanews.arizona.edu/story/spider-venom-reveals-new-secret

Only the recluse and black widow have medically significant venom, and the recluse is a multiple of times worse than a black widow.

Where the heck is syringer when you need him?

Also, just saw the stats, they think 80% are mis diagnosed, sorry buddy, you're right.

 

[CZroe]

Considering that it's not actually the venom that causes this and, under certain circumstances, you could get a nearly identical necrotic wound from a pin prick or a cut (remember the zip line incident?), it's not unreasonable that a zit or a completely unrelated spider/insect/arachnid bite could cause it and get diagnosed as a recluse bite. Think about it: it's pretty hard to get a recluse bite on your forehead.

It's usually a secondary infection of flesh eating bacteria or normal bacteria allowed to go hog-wild due to a suppressed immune response or some other factor. Any necrotic wound not attributed to a zip lining injury or a spider bite or similar gets assumed to be from a spider bite because it's the most familiar cause.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Considering that it's not actually the venom that causes this and, under certain circumstances, you could get a nearly identical necrotic wound from a pin prick or a cut (remember the zip line incident?), it's not unreasonable that a zit or a completely unrelated spider/insect/arachnid bite could cause it and get diagnosed as a recluse bite. Think about it: it's pretty hard to get a recluse bite on your forehead.

It's usually a secondary infection of flesh eating bacteria or normal bacteria allowed to go hog-wild due to a suppressed immune response or some other factor. Any necrotic wound not attributed to a zip lining injury or a spider bite or similar gets assumed to be from a spider bite because it's the most familiar cause.

Let's ignore the fact that multiple people saw the spider, killed it and took it with them to the hospital and assume that someone doesn't know what they are talking about because someone else thinks they know better. Sure it wasn't in my original post, but it shouldn't need to be. The usual "internet knows better" scenario.

 

[CZroe]

Let's ignore the fact that multiple people saw the spider, killed it and took it with them to the hospital and assume that someone doesn't know what they are talking about because someone else thinks they know better. Sure it wasn't in my original post, but it shouldn't need to be. The usual "internet knows better" scenario.

"It shouldn't need to be..."

...except to prevent the run-away assumptions we are trying to address. Thanks. Now: Did you read the part where actual medical professionals were teaching other medical professionals what was and wasn't a brown recluse using the wrong specimen?

http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html

Even entomologists, doctors and public health officials who lack training in arachnology have been overconfident of their abilities and have misidentified harmless spiders as recluses. I have even seen specimens from a Texas medical school that were not recluses but were being used to teach medical students what brown recluses look like. Therefore, the med students were getting incorrect information right from the start.

To address the problem details are important.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Quick search revealed there is a Mediterranean Recluse that's in the same family.
No picture was posted.

"It shouldn't need to be..."

...except to prevent the run-away assumptions we are trying to address. Thanks. Now: Did you read the part where actual medical professionals were teaching other medical professionals what was and wasn't a brown recluse using the wrong specimen?

http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html


To address the problem details are important.

This over and over. Most people I know of have mis-called Wolf spiders as Brown Recluses.

I love how details went from "she saw A brown spider" to "um, several people absolutely saw a spider, so STFU" which doesn't even take into account how often people mis-identify things. Oops, got two stories mixed up.

Actually, no... There 11 some spiders in the br's species, and the venom is different from other spiders.

https://uanews.arizona.edu/story/spider-venom-reveals-new-secret

Only the recluse and black widow have medically significant venom, and the recluse is a multiple of times worse than a black widow.

Where the heck is syringer when you need him?

Also, just saw the stats, they think 80% are mis diagnosed, sorry buddy, you're right.

What? I hope you seriously don't think only those two spiders have "medically significant venom" unless you're talking about just the US.

A lot of spiders have venom that has different affects because of different chemical make-up.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Maybe. Anecdotal story time.

My band director in high school was a big boy. Probably 400 pounds or more. He got bit by a brown recluse when he was moving some boxes in his attic. He went to the hospital later that day when the bite started to look odd. By the time he got out, he was down to something like 180 pounds. He looked like a damned zombie he had so much loose skin everywhere.

In the end he actually said that bite probably saved his life, but he was hospitalized for a LONG time and it was touch and go for quite some time. He never got back to his previous large size, so the whole thing was a life changing event. It could be that some people are more sensitive than others and it could be that medical treatment for such bites is better now than it was in 1984. Still, if I see any spider that looks remotely close to a recluse it is getting taken out with extreme prejudice.

Sorry but this is pure bullshit. There is nothing known on Earth at this time with venom that would cause that kind of tissue damage. You're literally claiming he lost 200lbs of tissue in less than a day? He would have died from that as there is no way that level of damage would not have gotten at least some of his organs, let alone if it was so fast acting that that occurred in less than a day. Hell if you even just sucked that much fat out of someone that quickly it would likely kill them.

 

[ControlD]

Sorry but this is pure bullshit. There is nothing known on Earth at this time with venom that would cause that kind of tissue damage. You're literally claiming he lost 200lbs of tissue in less than a day? He would have died from that as there is no way that level of damage would not have gotten at least some of his organs, let alone if it was so fast acting that that occurred in less than a day. Hell if you even just sucked that much fat out of someone that quickly it would likely kill them.

Where did I claim 200 pounds in a single day? The dude was in the hospital for months (thus the part about him being in the hospital for a long time .....)

You can call bullshit all you want, it still happened.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Might be a common house spider too, they kinda look like brown recluse when you zoom in like that.

These are the ones I get a lot at my house:








Occasionally I get these suckers:

 

[CZroe]

Where did I claim 200 pounds in a single day? The dude was in the hospital for months (thus the part about him being in the hospital for a long time .....)

You can call bullshit all you want, it still happened.

Yeah. You can really shed flesh with one of those necrotic wounds. They often lead to amputations, like the girl in the zip lining accident. I keep bringing that up because it happened right near here and got national attention. She had so much amputated before she started to recover that I was amazed it was even possible.

 

[ControlD]

Yeah. You can really shed flesh with one of those necrotic wounds. They often lead to amputations, like the girl in the zip lining accident. I keep bringing that up because it happened right near here and got national attention. She had so much amputated before she started to recover that I was amazed it was even possible.

It has been a long time since this happened, but if I remember correctly it wasn't so much the necrotic wound that was the biggest issue (although that was the initial problem). He just got really sick from the whole thing as well. Probably some kind of secondary infection. The actual wound left a huge gnarly crater on his arm where the flesh disappeared but he didn't have anything amputated.

The lesson still remains for me. If I have a doubt, I'm taking it out

 

[ImpulsE69]

"It shouldn't need to be..."

...except to prevent the run-away assumptions we are trying to address. Thanks. Now: Did you read the part where actual medical professionals were teaching other medical professionals what was and wasn't a brown recluse using the wrong specimen?

http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html


To address the problem details are important.

I get that, and sure people make mistakes, but it doesn't at all dismiss that it happens. I can't help it if others think because they read a study article it didn't. I could explain why it was on his forehead, but really didn't/don't feel like going into WHY because it wasn't important. It's a matter of you can take it at face value or you can dismiss it, I don't really care. I will concede that perhaps it wasn't even a BR since who knows if the people who said it was were correct, but it was indeed a spider, brown in color that bit the person and caused the issue.

 

[CZroe]

I get that, and sure people make mistakes, but it doesn't at all dismiss that it happens. I can't help it if others think because they read a study article it didn't. I could explain why it was on his forehead, but really didn't/don't feel like going into WHY because it wasn't important. It's a matter of you can take it at face value or you can dismiss it, I don't really care. I will concede that perhaps it wasn't even a BR since who knows if the people who said it was were correct, but it was indeed a spider, brown in color that bit the person and caused the issue.

I rarely take anything at face value.

Yes, it happens. That much is clear. The alternate causes aren't so clear. That combination of circumstances is why it's so easy to over-diagnose the wrong cause. I do hope it is better understood someday but we're less likely to ever get to the bottom of it if we continue assuming it's always the one particular thing. I'm just trying to bring some caution to the discussion because it's a real problem that we do need to understand better.

 

[fralexandr]

While I can't be positive, since i can't tell how many eyes it has from the picture, it looks more like a false-wolf/wandering spider. The picture seems to have an 8 eye arrangement, but it's not clear enough to be sure.
As has been stated before, brown recluses are primarily situated around the southern parts of the US.

examples of similar looking spiders (North American)
http://bugguide.net/node/view/542887
http://bugguide.net/node/view/260721

brown recluses have 6 eyes arranged in 3 pairs.
http://bugguide.net/node/view/993853

 

[lxskllr]

Was just looking up the huntsman spider, which was the other feature player in my dream...

They are able to travel extremely fast, often using a springing jump while running, and walk on walls and even on ceilings. They also tend to exhibit a "cling" reflex if picked up, making them difficult to shake off and much more likely to bite.

So you can't shake it off, and it can run up your arm lightning fast to hump your face. I think getting one on my hand would make me cry :^D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntsman_spider

 

[elitejp]

Where did I claim 200 pounds in a single day? The dude was in the hospital for months (thus the part about him being in the hospital for a long time .....)

You can call bullshit all you want, it still happened.

Haha, that was classic. Lets skim read while doing something else and then form an opinion and call that poster stupid

 

[serawara]

Thanks all of you. Finally found. it is is a type of recluse spider, but it is not the brown recluse which occurs only in the United States. Rather, mine is almost certainly the Mediterranean recluse, scientific name Loxosceles rufescens, in the family Sicariidae. Its bite is potentially as severe as that of the brown recluse. So i am looking for a new home

 

[lxskllr]

I'd learn to live with them. Chances are any place you get in the area will have them, and the locals deal with them ok.

 

[Imp]

I hate that it's cold as hell in Canada for most of the year, but thank god, the cold doesn't allow shit like that to live here in abundance.

 

[DrPizza]

http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html

Thank you very much! I should have suspected that - it's pretty logical. If one in a million spiders is a brown recluse around here (I've never seen one), and we're getting people in the E.R. with bites, then people who live in areas where they're common should be getting bit dozens of times each year.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I hate that it's cold as hell in Canada for most of the year, but thank god, the cold doesn't allow shit like that to live here in abundance.

Pretty much. Any time I think to myself it would be nice to live down south, I think of all the poisonous stuff not to mention the violence and decide it's safer here despite the cold.

Spider webs are really what bother me, I have a weird phobia of those. But down south you also have to worry about dying if you get bit by stuff. Some venomous stuff like black widows you have no more than a few minutes to make it to a hospital if you get hit. Brown recluse you have more time but it starts to eat all your flesh so you do risk loosing limbs.

 

[fralexandr]

Some venomous stuff like black widows you have no more than a few minutes to make it to a hospital if you get hit...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus#Bite
black widows aren't that deadly to adult humans.
some of those snakes around the south are pretty deadly though.

 

[Spineshank]

Clearly the doctors on this forum know more than real doctors do.


Also, my gf got bit by one on her leg.