PLEASE HELP - difficulty starting NEW car!!!

[thedeliman]

hi guys,

any car buffs out there who could assist would be greatly appreciated.

this is the most screwed up thing. I recently bought a new (2002) Honda Civic LX sedan (back in April), and ALREADY, on two occasions (once this afternoon, as I was going to the supermarket), I've had difficulty starting my car.

A brief description of the starting procedure (plz bear with me):

1. key in ignition, foot on brakes.
2. with foot still on brakes, I immediately switch to the start option. the car then seems like it's stuck in the ignition phase.
3. after three seconds of this, I quickly turn off the engine, wait 5-10 seconds, and then try again.
4. only on the second try does the car start.

ACK! WHAT IS GOING ON?

fluid levels are fine (oil, coolant, brake fluid, power steering). there's also enough gas in the tank.

please help. thanks!
karl:Q

 

[Electric Amish]

Take it back to the dealer while you can still start it. I would expect it's warrantied.

amish

 

[iamwiz82]

could it be a safety lock? My car will not start if the steering wheel is turned more than a 1/4 turn from where it was left when it was shut off.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: thedeliman
hi guys,


2. with foot still on brakes, I immediately switch to the start option. the car then seems like it's stuck in the ignition phase.
3. after three seconds of this...

karl:Q

what is the the car doing during the "ignition phase" as you call it...

i would think that maybe there isn't not a good fuel supply for some reason...

 

[pyonir]

there is a bomb on your car. after 50 ignition turns, you will be sent to the doldrums of hell.

Have fun!

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Is this an auto or stick?
If stick mahe sure the clutch is pushed in.
If auto, it might have a link to the break pedal that keeps it from being started with out your foot on the break, my old car had this problem.
There are many diff things that could be wrong. Take it to the dealer and have them check it out.
Could be bad igniter, fuel pump, ignition switch, wiring, or alternator.

If it's only a month old, anything wrong with it should be covered under the bumper to bumper warranty.

 

[Doggiedog]

Does your car have a digital key?

My 97 Prelude did something like what you are saying. I would turn the ignition but the engine wouldn't even turn. Nothing. It was a major annoyance for me especially when I stalled once when making an illegal U-turn .

 

[SuperTool]

Does it happen more on empty gas tank?
Maybe the fuel line vacuum is not maintained, and fuel goes back into the tank. Try turning the key to on, wait 10 seconds for the fuel pump to build up pressure, then turn key to start.
But since you are under warranty take it to a dealer.

 

[The Stigenator]

Check your state's Lemon laws.. cause I am quite sure this sounds like a lemon.. it goes very well with what a lemon does.

 

[thedeliman]

thanks all for the replies!

I live in Boston, MA, and I just bought the car no more than 2 months ago.
anyway, to add more info:

1. the key supposedly has a digital chip inside.

2. it is an automatic, 2002 honda civic LX

3. there isn't any correlation between empty tank and car not starting. first time it happened, I had nearly a full tank of gas on a mildly cool night. Today, it was a good 75-80 degrees, with 1/2 tank of gas.

4. do civics come with safety locks for the steering wheel?

5. for a mental image of what my car is doing, try to imagine the stereotypical movie scene of "crap, bad guy is after me, and the engine WON'T start!" I swear it sounds exactly like that. Only it doesn't take five attempts, just two (for now) =)

6. MOST IMPORTANTLY, **do I have to go to the dealer I bought from to get this problem fixed? This is actually a *very urgent* question, because I was about to swing it by the dealer out here in Newton, MA, instead of driving back to town.

thanks again for the insights!
:Q

 

[iamwiz82]

it could be that your key isnt making contact very well. I assume it is 2 sided. Try with one end up, and then the other, to see if it is a problem with a certain side.

 

[Thegonagle]

Just go to the nearest dealer.

They'll get it fixed up for you. If this was an older Honda, I could almost guarantee that a new main relay or igniter would solve the problem, but I would guess there is a problem with your key's transponder or the reader, since your car is so new (and the igniter, an electronic part inside the distributor, might be a thing of the past, I'm not sure if new the Civic engines have a distributor).

 

[thedeliman]

*update*

well, I brought it to the local dealer, and the mechanic there said he can start the car just fine (five consecutive attempts). Even though I told him it happened twice in 1.5 weeks, to him it sounded like I was a hypochondriac for the car or something.

so... he suggested I leave it overnight and see what develops.
I suggested he check the wiring, key's digital chip, etc...but we'll see what happens.

 

[Doggiedog]

It's the digital key!

I'm almost positive of it! I had such a friggin problem with that stupid key and I kept getting the same response from the dealership. They would always be able to start the car when they did it but whenever I needed to start the car, it wouldn't start.

I don't think it has anything to do with contacts because I think the whole key is a contact. Fortunately, I only had to deal with that problem for 2 years and got a new car. But it is a real hassle especially when you really need to start the car.

I tried everything for two years. Waiting, wiping the keys/ignition, jamming the key in fast/slow, turning slowly, you name it and nothing worked.

Good luck to you.

DD

 

[Nocturnal]

take it back to the place you bought it or factory. you have a warranty. also, if the car breaks three times for the same exact reason you can get a new car!!!! thank god for the lemon law!

 

[XZeroII]

Hit it a couple times. If that doesn't work, get out of the car and start yelling at it.

 

[Farbio]

when u try and start it the first time, does the key turn all the way to start? or is it stuck in auxiliary or is it stuck from turning at all? if so, i probably can help you

 

[Thegonagle]

Well, the unfortunate truth is that they can't diagnose a problem that isn't there when they try to diagnose it.

If it is even the slightest bit possible, the next time it happens, I would drive immediately and directly to that same local dealership without turning off the key and tell them that it just did it again, and to scan the computer with their Honda scanner for a code. The code they would be looking for would be for the code-key (or what ever Honda calls it). I've seen it before on a brand new Nissan that I needed to trade. One of the brand new keys was defective and I couldn't start the car to drive it off the trailer. The sales manager at my destination and I pushed it into the service bay and the tech hooked up his scanner. The computer said "bad key code," so I got the other key and the car started right up.

They'll probably end up making you a new key at some point.

 

[thedeliman]

update #2:

hmm... for some reason, I started thinking it was the key today also (with its chip inside). the key turns fine, and I swear it's just like I describe it: just imagine a stereotypical movie scene where good guy can't start the car as bad guy comes within yards of the car. The sounds, the frustrations, it's all the same! =)

I pray that the next time this happens, it'll be during normal business hours. Now Garfang, how do I go about this again? if it stalls when starting, and then I get it to start, are you saying I should drive it to Honda Village (the local dealer, not the one I purchased from) and, with the car still running at the dealership, ask a technician to scan for the key code?

about this lemon law in MA: (a paragraph that caught my eye)

"Substantial Impairment":
The Lemon Law only covers serious defects- those which substantially impair the use, market-value or safety of the vehicle. The law does not list the defects which are considered substantial. You must be able to demonstrate specifically how the use, safety or market value of your vehicle is substantially impaired by the defect. For example, to prove market value impairment, you must show that your vehicle is worth at least 10 percent less than it would be without the defect. Although a defect may be annoying, it is not necessarily substantial."

thoughts that I had about this paragraph:
1) it's my word vs theirs, especially since this difficulty starting only occurs 1-2% of the time, with at least 45 minutes of park time. they could say I'm bluffing.
2) what if they say "it's not a substantial impairment"?

finally, can I just flat-out request they make a new key, precisely because it's a)so cheap for them, b)it'll get me off their back about the lemon law, and c)it may very well be the reason why my car is acting up?

thanks, guys!

karl

 

[Doggiedog]

My problem was never diagnosed because I got rid of the car. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't the individual keys that were defective since it didn't matter which key I used. It was probably something within a sensor in the ignition.

 

[Thegonagle]

Well, every time you turn the car on and then back off, it counts as a "cycle." Codes are only stored for a finite number of cycles, then if the problem doesn't recur, the code is erased. I'm not a Honda tech, so I don't know how many cycles any particular codes are stored for, so I'd try not to chance it by turning the car off and on too many times. Maybe if you went in the morning after, it would still be OK, but I don't know. I'm just saying what I would try to do if it was my car. (BTW, those chipped keys are NOT cheap, even for the dealer, so it's a safe bet they won't just give you a new key without having some idea that it will solve the problem. For some reason, dealers hate making warranty claims to the manufacturer, so they like to be sure.)

 

[Turkey]

Honda just issued a recall on over a million cars due to faulty ignitions, one of their biggest recalls ever. You may have one of them. Register online at Honda's site to check.

 

[Muadib]

I think it's your key too. Didn't you get a spare?

 

[GrumpyMan]

Did you activate the key with Microsoft, if not after 30 starts it won't start again. J/K ing.



Take it back to the dealer and tell them to fix it or they can give you a new car.

 

[thedeliman]

haha =)

well, i'm going to pick up my car now. we'll see what they say.
i'm expecting a standard "we looked, and we looked, but we couldn't find anything"