Please explain this baseball ruling for me

oogabooga

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2003
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#1 I think he did get the save (per ESPN scoreboard):
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/schedules

#2) I didn't watch the game (still watching Giants @ Dodgers) but to get a save there are other preconditions. Pitching just with 2 run lead isn't going to get a save alone. I think the tying run needs to be a threat (IE, there had to have been a man on base with the tying run up to bat) or he had to have pitched all three outs of the 9th.
 

zinfamous

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Jul 12, 2006
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Originally posted by: SunnyD
It's golf/nascar. It doesn't need to make sense cause it's not a sport.

only with this fix, is your post relevant.


 

zinfamous

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Jul 12, 2006
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Originally posted by: oogabooga

#2) I didn't watch the game (still watching Giants @ Dodgers) but to get a save there are other preconditions. Pitching just with 2 run lead isn't going to get a save alone. I think the tying run needs to be a threat (IE, there had to have been a man on base with the tying run up to bat) or he had to have pitched all three outs of the 9th.

:thumbsup:

yeah, there are many rules, strangely enough, that go into getting an official save (which is a new and extremely worthless stat, to be honest).

I didn't see this game, so not sure what the immediate situation was to debate the ruling.


1: maximum 3 run lead when entering game.
2: 2 innings pitched, maximum
3: ...shit-load of other save rules that will be explained from game-to-game...when the situation calls for it.

#3 is why baseball rocks, and the haters just don't know ;)

 

SludgeFactory

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Sep 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: zinfamous
1: maximum 3 run lead when entering game.
2: 2 innings pitched, maximum
3: ...shit-load of other save rules that will be explained from game-to-game...when the situation calls for it.

#3 is why baseball rocks, and the haters just don't know ;)
There's no 2 inning maximum. Actually, one of the ways you can get a save is to come in as a reliever and pitch "effectively" for at least 3 innings. (And be the pitcher that finishes the game, of course.)

Every once in a while, there's a huge blowout with the winning team pulling the starter after 5 or 6 innings, and a reliever comes in and pitches the 7th, 8th and 9th for a truly meaningless save.
 

BeauJangles

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Aug 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: zinfamous
1: maximum 3 run lead when entering game.
2: 2 innings pitched, maximum
3: ...shit-load of other save rules that will be explained from game-to-game...when the situation calls for it.

No.

He must not be the winning pitcher.

He must finish the game.

One of the following:

(a) the lead cannot be more than three runs and he must pitch for at least one inning

(b) the tying run must be on deck, at bat, or on base when he enters the game.

(c) he pitches for at least three innings.

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory
Originally posted by: zinfamous
1: maximum 3 run lead when entering game.
2: 2 innings pitched, maximum
3: ...shit-load of other save rules that will be explained from game-to-game...when the situation calls for it.

#3 is why baseball rocks, and the haters just don't know ;)
There's no 2 inning maximum. Actually, one of the ways you can get a save is to come in as a reliever and pitch "effectively" for at least 3 innings. (And be the pitcher that finishes the game, of course.)

Every once in a while, there's a huge blowout with the winning team pulling the starter after 5 or 6 innings, and a reliever comes in and pitches the 7th, 8th and 9th for a truly meaningless save.

Yes. In that 30 - 3 drubbing the Rangers hung on the Orioles in '07, Wes Littleton of the Rangers earned a save, despite the fact his team had a 27 run lead.
 

Squisher

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Aug 17, 2000
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I heard on the other day where the official scorer changed who got a win in a game because one had pitched "more effective."

<--52 years old and still learning the rules.
 

DayLaPaul

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Apr 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: Squisher
I heard on the other day where the official scorer changed who got a win in a game because one had pitched "more effective."

<--52 years old and still learning the rules.

The official scorer has discretion on judgment calls only as it relates to whether a ball is a hit or error. There is nothing in the rule book that would allow him to decide what pitcher gets the win or loss. That's automatically determined by which pitcher was on the lineup card at the time of the go ahead run. Of course, this all gets thrown out of whack when a starting pitcher doesn't last 5 innings, but leaves with his team in the lead. In that case the win goes to whoever finished the 5th inning.
 

Squisher

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Aug 17, 2000
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Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
Originally posted by: Squisher
I heard on the other day where the official scorer changed who got a win in a game because one had pitched "more effective."

<--52 years old and still learning the rules.

The official scorer has discretion on judgment calls only as it relates to whether a ball is a hit or error. There is nothing in the rule book that would allow him to decide what pitcher gets the win or loss. That's automatically determined by which pitcher was on the lineup card at the time of the go ahead run. Of course, this all gets thrown out of whack when a starting pitcher doesn't last 5 innings, but leaves with his team in the lead. In that case the win goes to whoever finished the 5th inning.

WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER

10.19 (a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.

(b) The "must pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.

(c) When the starting pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions of 10.19 (a) or (b) and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory shall be awarded on the following basis:

(1) When, during the tenure of the starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by the scorer to have been the most effective;

(2) Whenever the score is tied the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is concerned;

(3) Once the opposing team assumes the lead all pitchers who have pitched up to that point are excluded from being credited with the victory except that if the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher;

(4) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game.

EXCEPTION: Do not credit a victory to a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when a succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain the lead. In such cases, credit the succeeding relief pitcher with the victory.

(d) When a pitcher is removed for a substitute batter or substitute runner, all runs scored by his team during the inning in which he is removed shall be credited to his benefit in determining the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead.

(e) Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the lead.

(f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records.

(g) In some non championship games (such as the Major League All Star Game) it is provided in advance that each pitcher shall work a stated number of innings, usually two or three. In such games, it is customary to credit the victory to the pitcher of record, whether starter or reliever, when the winning team takes a lead which it maintains to the end of the game, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has a commanding lead, and the scorer believes a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit for the victory.
 

DayLaPaul

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Apr 6, 2001
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Hmm interesting, I always thought it went to whoever finished the 5th inning. So you're saying the the scorer awarded the win to one pitcher, then later changed his mind and awarded it to another pitcher?

Also, what version of the rulebook are you citing? The current rulebook, section 10.19 deals with save situations and 10.17 deals with win/losses. While it still pretty much says the same thing as what you quoted, no where in the current text is the word "tenure" used. Is that even the proper usage of the word?

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/officia...official_scorer_10.jsp
 

oogabooga

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
Hmm interesting, I always thought it went to whoever finished the 5th inning. So you're saying the the scorer awarded the win to one pitcher, then later changed his mind and awarded it to another pitcher?

Also, what version of the rulebook are you citing? The current rulebook, section 10.19 deals with save situations and 10.17 deals with win/losses. While it still pretty much says the same thing as what you quoted, no where in the current text is the word "tenure" used. Is that even the proper usage of the word?

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/officia...official_scorer_10.jsp

I hadn't heard that "whoever pitched in the fifth". As far as I knew it usually is awarded to the next reliever so long as they don't blow the lead but then again I'm having some trouble thinking of a game I've seen with this situation recently. It's not common that a pitcher doesn't last 5 and his team has and maintains the lead though no? I suppose if the other team's starter is getting shelled a little more that's a situation.