PlayBook OS 2.0 looks pretty great

[silverpig]

Hands on with the new OS

Good review, great features, some innovative new stuff that goes beyond what iOS and Android currently do - it looks like we have a winner here.

Yes yes, "they should have launched this 10 months ago". They didn't, it's here now.

I kind of wish I had picked up a 16GB over Christmas for $199. I really love the OS/UI, love the formfactor, and the hardware and build quality is pretty fantastic.

The article said the android app player works very well, and it takes devs ~10 minutes to do a port. This could be the turn around folks.

 

[Bateluer]

The article said the android app player works very well, and it takes devs ~10 minutes to do a port. This could be the turn around folks.

No, it won't. The Playbook was dead when it launched, to say nothing of how it stands against competing tablets in the same price range that are actually running a standard OS with support. Tablets like the Kindle Fire, Nook Tablet, the Tab 7+, and the upcoming Tegra 3 250 Asus tablet will completely kill the Playbook.

AFAIK, RIM killed the plans for larger Playbooks a few months ago. I'm kinda surprised they haven't thrown in the towel with the 7in model too. With their massive losses in 2011, I don't see them as having money to burn on unprofitable ventures like the Playbook.

 

[silverpig]

No, it won't. The Playbook was dead when it launched, to say nothing of how it stands against competing tablets in the same price range that are actually running a standard OS with support. Tablets like the Kindle Fire, Nook Tablet, the Tab 7+, and the upcoming Tegra 3 250 Asus tablet will completely kill the Playbook.

AFAIK, RIM killed the plans for larger Playbooks a few months ago. I'm kinda surprised they haven't thrown in the towel with the 7in model too. With their massive losses in 2011, I don't see them as having money to burn on unprofitable ventures like the Playbook.

Massive losses? They are still profitable. $265M net income in the last quarter, no debt, and this is after taking the $485M writedown on the playbook (a non-cash write down). Revenue was up 25% from the previous quarter, they are sitting on over $1B in cash and have over $4B in receivables.

The PlayBook is also profitable, even at $299. I think it costs just under $200 to produce one.

 

[Bateluer]

Massive losses? They are still profitable. $265M net income in the last quarter, no debt, and this is after taking the $485M writedown on the playbook (a non-cash write down). Revenue was up 25% from the previous quarter, they are sitting on over $1B in cash and have over $4B in receivables.

The PlayBook is also profitable, even at $299. I think it costs just under $200 to produce one.

And next to no one is buying the PBs, or their phones for that matter. Their 2011 annual report had investor's crying for blood. RIM won't be around at the end of 2012. Buy a Playbook as a gimmick or toy if you wish, but understand its a zombie product.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Massive losses? They are still profitable. $265M net income in the last quarter, no debt, and this is after taking the $485M writedown on the playbook (a non-cash write down). Revenue was up 25% from the previous quarter, they are sitting on over $1B in cash and have over $4B in receivables.

If that's the case why are investors calling for the CEOs to step down?

I think it costs just under $200 to produce one.

Where did that number come from?

 

[silverpig]

And next to no one is buying the PBs, or their phones for that matter. Their 2011 annual report had investor's crying for blood. RIM won't be around at the end of 2012. Buy a Playbook as a gimmick or toy if you wish, but understand its a zombie product.

Uh, their 2011 annual report was quite positive.

One particular investor group that owns a small percentage of RIM's shares has been pretty vocal for the last ~8-9 months or so, and their last three quarterly reports haven't been good, but their revenue in Q3 2012 is back up to Q3 2011 levels.

The problems people had with they playbook were:

1. No native email
2. Lack of apps

Native email is here next month, and they just got all the android apps.

Most people who have actually used the OS love it save for the above, and the hardware has always gotten consistently good reviews.

It's no iPad killer, but with OS 2.0 and at $299, it'll start flying off the shelves. Heck, it did pretty well over Christmas.

 

[ponyo]

I'll read it later but it's going to have to be mind blowing great to get me interested at this point. They promised the world with 1.0 too and massively disappointed. It's show me and convince me time now. Good review from one site means nothing. RIMM is so desperate that if I see positive review from a website, I'm automatically going to assume paid review. I need universal praise and love from the buying public before I believe.

 

[silverpig]

If that's the case why are investors calling for the CEOs to step down?



Where did that number come from?

Their share price has dropped like a rock, and they are slow as shit on executing on the new OS.

But the new OS is finally here and it looks great.

It came from the internet.

 

[Rifter]

Massive losses? They are still profitable. $265M net income in the last quarter, no debt, and this is after taking the $485M writedown on the playbook (a non-cash write down). Revenue was up 25% from the previous quarter, they are sitting on over $1B in cash and have over $4B in receivables.

The PlayBook is also profitable, even at $299. I think it costs just under $200 to produce one.

You cant possibly be serious, lets look at stock prices:

Jan 1 2011 = $59
Oct 1 2011= $21
Now = $15

They are not making money, they are going to fold this year, its going to happen. If they were making money there stock would not have tanked 400% in the last year.

 

[silverpig]

You cant possibly be serious, lets look at stock prices:

Jan 1 2011 = $59
Oct 1 2011= $21
Now = $15

They are not making money, they are going to fold this year, its going to happen. If they were making money there stock would not have tanked 400% in the last year.

http://www.rim.com/investors/documents/

Show me a single quarter where they've not made money. They are profitable, growing, have no debt, are sitting on cash, invest heavily in R&D, and have new stuff coming out that has positive initial reaction.

 

[Bateluer]

Their share price has dropped like a rock, and they are slow as shit on executing on the new OS.

But the new OS is finally here and it looks great.

It came from the internet.

Their new OS, BlackBerry 10, was pushed back to late 2012. What you're seeing a rehash of existing OS. Which was obsolete years ago, relative to Android, iOS, and WP7.

Their annual report was positive spin and marketing, investors saw through it.

 

[silverpig]

Their new OS, BlackBerry 10, was pushed back to late 2012. What you're seeing a rehash of existing OS. Which was obsolete years ago, relative to Android, iOS, and WP7.

Their annual report was positive spin and marketing, investors saw through it.

Did you actually read the annual report? Find the numbers in there that you are calling BS on.

BlackBerry 10 is pushed back to the fall for smartphones. This is the PlayBook OS. PlayBook OS 2.0 is nowhere near obsolete, wasn't obsolete years ago, and has been hailed as being a real competitor to iOS and Android, being based on QNX.

Very few who have used it have complained about the OS itself. It was the lack of integrated email and lack of apps that people complained about. Both of those are (supposedly) fixed, and it includes some useful features that iOS and Android don't have.

 

[kaerflog]

Damm, have you been hiding in a cave for the last year or so ???
RIM have been bleeding customers and have no new product out.
What are they going to do with all the cash reserve when noone is buying their products ??
I can't see them surviving 2012.

 

[kaerflog]

The Nile is strong in here.

 

[Bateluer]

D
BlackBerry 10 is pushed back to the fall for smartphones. This is the PlayBook OS. PlayBook OS 2.0 is nowhere near obsolete, wasn't obsolete years ago, and has been hailed as being a real competitor to iOS and Android, being based on QNX.

Wat? You're kidding right? Playbook OS a competitor to iOS/Android? That was what RIM intended it to be, but it cratered. Badly.

 

[silverpig]

Wat? You're kidding right? Playbook OS a competitor to iOS/Android? That was what RIM intended it to be, but it cratered. Badly.

Differentiate between the PlayBook and the OS. The OS itself is rock solid, intuitive, fluid, and works well. The hardware has always gotten good reviews, save for the stupid power button. The PlayBook (the entire thing) flopped initially because of the lack of apps and native email, not because the OS itself was bad, and not because the hardware was bad.

It got off to a terrible start, but the new price, android apps, and integrated email fix the problems that were keeping it out of people's hands.

I'm not saying this will outsell the iPad, but if they have addressed everyone's complaints, I don't see why it wouldn't sell. RIM is also still in a strong position financially to execute on whatever it wants to do. Their problem is the lack of ability to execute efficiently.

 

[smartpatrol]

http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/09/ios-marketshare-up-from-26-in-q3-to-43-in-octnov-2011/

RIM has been bleeding marketshare at an alarming rate for some time, and they haven't hit the bottom yet.

Sure, they are a profitable company. But, when they are losing customers this quickly, and their new OS is still 3 quarters away, that is a HUGE cause for concern.

 

[Bateluer]

Differentiate between the PlayBook and the OS. The OS itself is rock solid, intuitive, fluid, and works well. The hardware has always gotten good reviews, save for the stupid power button. The PlayBook (the entire thing) flopped initially because of the lack of apps and native email, not because the OS itself was bad, and not because the hardware was bad.

It got off to a terrible start, but the new price, android apps, and integrated email fix the problems that were keeping it out of people's hands.

I'm not saying this will outsell the iPad, but if they have addressed everyone's complaints, I don't see why it wouldn't sell. RIM is also still in a strong position financially to execute on whatever it wants to do. Their problem is the lack of ability to execute efficiently.

Err, no. When you flop that badly, you don't recover. Not when your competitors are offering highly polished, aggressively priced alternatives. The way RIM is bleeding cash and customers, they're not going to get a do-over either. The public has already written off the Playbook as a failure and no OS update is going to being it back, not with products like the iPad 3 launching soon, the Asus Transformer Prime and the 1080p Prime, Kindle Fire, etc.

 

[kaerflog]

LOL, the OP must know something everyone else don't know.
An update to an old tablet is going to jump start a dying company ??
They don't have any new product coming out.
You think people will suddenly start buying these old Playbooks because of an update ??
This is too funny.

 

[silverpig]

http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/09/ios-marketshare-up-from-26-in-q3-to-43-in-octnov-2011/

RIM has been bleeding marketshare at an alarming rate for some time, and they haven't hit the bottom yet.

Sure, they are a profitable company. But, when they are losing customers this quickly, and their new OS is still 3 quarters away, that is a HUGE cause for concern.

They have been losing marketshare, but the market has been growing insanely fast. They haven't been losing customers quickly. They gain more than they lose, and have sold more product this quarter than last by a large margin.

 

[silverpig]

Err, no. When you flop that badly, you don't recover. Not when your competitors are offering highly polished, aggressively priced alternatives. The way RIM is bleeding cash and customers, they're not going to get a do-over either. The public has already written off the Playbook as a failure and no OS update is going to being it back, not with products like the iPad 3 launching soon, the Asus Transformer Prime and the 1080p Prime, Kindle Fire, etc.

They're not bleeding cash. Have you looked at a single piece of data I posted in the thread? They have tons of cash and are having no problems at all generating more.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

They're not bleeding cash. Have you looked at a single piece of data I posted in the thread? They have tons of cash and are having no problems at all generating more.

They have tons of cash yes. But their customers are businesses and corporations. Everyone is encroaching on their core business and they're trying to go for consumers, but consumers are not going for it. They are not innovating and what they're doing now is not leading anywhere. They were in denial when the iPhone first came out in 2007, and they've been slow to move. As we see more businesses and corporations move to iPhones and Android phones, we won't be seeing consumers moving to Blackberry phones.

 

[Deeko]

And next to no one is buying the PBs, or their phones for that matter. Their 2011 annual report had investor's crying for blood. RIM won't be around at the end of 2012. Buy a Playbook as a gimmick or toy if you wish, but understand its a zombie product.

Marketshare is certainly dropping, but didn't their last financial report indicate 14.5 million phones sold? I was unaware that 14.5 million is an equivalent to "next to no one".

Hands on with the new OS

Good review, great features, some innovative new stuff that goes beyond what iOS and Android currently do - it looks like we have a winner here.

Yes yes, "they should have launched this 10 months ago". They didn't, it's here now.

I kind of wish I had picked up a 16GB over Christmas for $199. I really love the OS/UI, love the formfactor, and the hardware and build quality is pretty fantastic.

The article said the android app player works very well, and it takes devs ~10 minutes to do a port. This could be the turn around folks.

It looks very nice, but its likely too late for the PlayBook to make a splash. However, this bodes well for the BB10 phones, or perhaps another iteration of the PlayBook.

You cant possibly be serious, lets look at stock prices:

Jan 1 2011 = $59
Oct 1 2011= $21
Now = $15

They are not making money, they are going to fold this year, its going to happen. If they were making money there stock would not have tanked 400% in the last year.

They are making money. They have consistently turned a profit. Investors are fleeing because they are worried about the future of the company - however, they have made a profit every quarter during this period. Regardless of your opinion on their future, they have consistently made a profit, and have a lot of money in the bank.

Look - RIM needs their BB10 phones to be huge to turn things around, there's no doubt about that, but anyone saying they aren't making money or will go bankrupt this year obviously isn't paying attention. If the BB10 isn't a game changer, might they die a slow death, like Palm did? Its possible - but the key word in that sentence was "slow", its not going to happen tomorrow.

Anyway, I know its "cool" to hate RIM on these forums, but you do realize that this thread is about PlayBook OS 2.0, not your opinion on RIM's future financials, right? If you want to gleefully banter about RIM's current position in the market, Pliablemoose has a thread in OT on the subject. This is the Mobile Devices & Gadgets subforum, where we talk about gadgets, not if you hate Mike Lazardius.

 

[smartpatrol]

RIM won't go bankrupt any time soon. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see them get bought out by someone like Microsoft, Amazon, or Facebook in the next year.

Bottom line, in a year from now, I doubt RIM will exist in the form it does today. BlackBerry 10 may or may not ever see the light of day.

 

[Mopetar]

Err, no. When you flop that badly, you don't recover.

Once upon a time Apple was much worse off and managed to pull themselves out of the death spiral that they had been in up to that point. RIM might be able to do it as well, but I'm less than confidant about such prospects given that co-CEOs Herp and Derp are still around and they've been shown to be pretty inept over the last several years.