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Plan to help Turkey hit Kurds shows Bush hasn't learned

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,563
3
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http://www.suntimes.com/news/n...ST-EDT-novak30.article

The morass in Iraq and deepening difficulties in Afghanistan have not deterred the Bush administration from taking on a dangerous and questionable new secret operation. At a high level, U.S. officials are working with their Turkish counterparts on a joint military operation to suppress Kurdish guerrillas and capture their leaders. Through covert activity, their goal is to forestall Turkey from invading Iraq.
While detailed operational plans are necessarily concealed, broad outlines have been presented to selected members of Congress as required by law. U.S. Special Forces are to work with the Turkish army to suppress the Kurds' guerrilla campaign. The administration is trying to prevent opening another war front in Iraq that would have disastrous consequences. But this gamble risks major exposure and failure.

The Turkish initiative reflects the temperament and personality of George W. Bush. Even faithful congressional supporters of his Iraq policy have been stunned by the president's upbeat mood, oblivious to the loss of his political base. Despite the failing effort to impose a military solution in Iraq, he is willing to try imposing arms -- though clandestinely -- on Turkey's ancient problems with its Kurdish minority, comprising one-fifth of the country's population.

The development of an autonomous Kurdish entity inside Iraq, resulting from the decline and fall of Saddam Hussein, has alarmed the Turkish government. That led to Ankara's refusal to permit entry of U.S. combat troops through Turkey into Iraq, an 11th hour complication for the 2003 invasion. As political power grew for the Kurds inside Iraq, the Turkish government became steadily more uneasy about the centuries-old project of a Kurdistan spreading across international boundaries -- and chewing up big pieces of Turkey.

The dormant PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) Turkish Kurd guerrilla fighters came to life. By June, the Turkish government was demonstrating its concern by lobbing artillery shells across the border. Ankara began protesting, to both Washington and Baghdad, that the PKK was using northern Iraq as a base for guerrilla operations. On July 11 in Washington, Turkish Ambassador Nabi Sensoy became the first Turkish official to claim publicly that the Iraqi Kurds have claims on Turkish territory. On July 20 (two days before his successful re-election), Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan threatened a trans-border military incursion into Iraq against the Kurds. On July 25, Murat Karayilan, head of the PKK Political Council, predicted "the Turkish army will attack southern Kurdistan."

Turkey has a well-trained, well-equipped army of 250,000 near the border, facing some 4,000 PKK fighters hiding in the mountains of northern Iraq. But significant cross-border operations surely would bring to the PKK's side the military forces of the Kurdistan Regional Government, the best U.S. ally in Iraq. What is Washington to do in the dilemma of two friends battling each other on an unwanted new front in Iraq?

The surprising answer was given in secret briefings on Capitol Hill last week by Eric S. Edelman, a former aide to Vice President Dick Cheney and now undersecretary of defense for policy. A Foreign Service officer who once was U.S. ambassador to Turkey, he revealed to lawmakers plans for a covert operation of U.S. Special Forces helping the Turks neutralize the PKK. They would behead the guerrilla organization by helping Turkey get rid of PKK leaders that they have targeted for years.

Edelman's listeners were stunned. Wasn't this risky? He responded he was sure of success, adding that the U.S. role could be concealed and always would be denied. Even if all this is true, some of the briefed lawmakers left wondering whether this was a wise policy for handling the beleaguered Kurds who had been betrayed so often by U.S. governments in years past.

Hard experience has not dissuaded President Bush from difficult ventures employing the use of force. On the contrary, two of the most intrepid supporters of the Iraq intervention -- John McCain and Lindsey Graham -- were surprised by Bush during a recent meeting with him. In sharing their impressions with colleagues, they commented on how unconcerned the president seemed. That may explain his willingness to embark on such a questionable venture against the Kurds.




Now I am certainly no fan of the sleazoid Robert Novak, who was the first to leak the Valerie Plame story, and yet was never prosecuted, nor even, apparently, called to testify.
But he DOES have excellent sources, and it is clear by his naming names that this story is solid.
I guess the morass justs keep getting deeper and deeper in Iraq, while Bush is the original Alfred E. Newman saying "What, Me Worry?
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
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I don't see whats wrong with this. Turkey is trying to stop a guerrilla force trying to invade their borders.Bush is helping out.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,116
3,653
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Edelman's listeners were stunned. Wasn't this risky? He responded he was sure of success, adding that the U.S. role could be concealed
Obviously that is why we?re speaking of it now, because it is ?concealed?. Our government couldn?t conceal a chipped toenail at this point. We have so many traitors leaking intelligence it?s ludicrous.

Turkey has a well-trained, well-equipped army of 250,000 near the border, facing some 4,000 PKK fighters hiding in the mountains of northern Iraq. But significant cross-border operations surely would bring to the PKK's side the military forces of the Kurdistan Regional Government, the best U.S. ally in Iraq. What is Washington to do in the dilemma of two friends battling each other on an unwanted new front in Iraq?
That is?. interesting. The PKK is clearly no friend if it isn?t killing the terrorists, but why are we using Turkey to do what we ourselves are apparently unwilling to do? Why do we not use the PKK to do it themselves if they are so ?friendly??

I would call Turkey a 3rd and undesirable solution to the situation in the North. Besides, what the hell IS the situation in the northern part of Iraq? Other than Turkey?s aggressive moves, isn?t it a largely quiet and well behaved region?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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You must wonder how leaky Congress is?

Secret briefing are made available to the press.

If you can not trust the Congressional leadership to keep quiet, then why should they be trusted with anything that is vital to the US interests.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
You must wonder how leaky Congress is?

Secret briefing are made available to the press.

If you can not trust the Congressional leadership to keep quiet, then why should they be trusted with anything that is vital to the US interests.
Might be someone in the Bush Administration.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,876
826
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Originally posted by: Hacp
I don't see whats wrong with this. Turkey is trying to stop a guerrilla force trying to invade their borders.Bush is helping out.
I agree. Also, wtf...secret operation? LOL If it made it's way to a friggin local news rag, it aint secret. Nor was it supposed to be.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,576
431
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Topic Title: Plan to help Turkey hit Kurdish guerrillas shows techs hasn't learned that his attempts to spin everything into an anti-Bush rant are idiotic
Fixed!
 

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
1,326
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Turkey can kiss their entrance into the EU goodbye if they invade Iraq and the Kurds.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Turkey can kiss their entrance into the EU goodbye if they invade Iraq and the Kurds.
Didn't hurt the UK!

I think we should all endorse Turkey taking over the entirety of Iraq. Let them worry about it. Who could have envisioned Iraq eventually being in the EU? Perfect!

 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Turkey can kiss their entrance into the EU goodbye if they invade Iraq and the Kurds.

I don't think Turkey wants to invade Iraq. They just want to prevent the South Eastern most lands of their country from rebelling and annexing to a kurdish state.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,876
826
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Turkey can kiss their entrance into the EU goodbye if they invade Iraq and the Kurds.
Didn't hurt the UK!

I think we should all endorse Turkey taking over the entirety of Iraq. Let them worry about it. Who could have envisioned Iraq eventually being in the EU? Perfect!
Anything is possible...look at the list of UN Human Rights Council...China? Cuba? Ghana?

LOL

And China as most favored nation status?

LOL
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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Basically, we have left the Kurds alone, given them money and weapons, in exchange for their assurance that they will not shoot at us.

They await the chance to declare a Kurdistan, which includes part of Turkey.

Turkey is correct in suggesting that if the U.S. cannot control the terrorists in Northern Iraq, they will. Since this will have unfortunate side effects, the U.S. should step up to the plate and go after the terrorists like GWB constantly claims we do.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,563
3
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Originally posted by: yllus
Topic Title: Plan to help Turkey hit Kurdish guerrillas shows techs hasn't learned that his attempts to spin everything into an anti-Bush rant are idiotic
Fixed!
Let me get this straight. Iraq is a sovereign country. The U.S. is now conspiring with another country (Turkey) to have Turkish troops enter Iraq and then the U.S. will help those troops carry out military operations. Against Iraqis.
Hmm... sort of sounds like a U.S. terrorist attack...on Iraq. Or maybe the U.S. is just attacking Iraq. Again.
Any way you look at it, it shows the Iraqis are NOT in charge of their country.
Is there any doubt as to why Iraqis look at the Iraqi government and ask why they should support it?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Novak is 100% correct in being alarmed. If we have not learned it yet, its costing us 2 billion a week just to contain the mess GWB created in Iraq. Our neocon nuts have never met a problem that they think can't be improved by a little of their meddling. And their fantasy Tattoo, is that it will never backfire on them. Despite the fact that every time they meddle it does backfire big time. And the American taxpayer then has to step in just to contain the mess they made leaving the overall problem they were trying to fix slightly worse to add injury to insult. But if we don't dopeslap and firmly place our neocons nuts back into Pandora's box, its just a matter of time before they will really screw up and
no amount of taxpayer money will be able to contain the mess. And this Kurdish question is just one such possible way to create an ultimate nightmare scenario of no return.

And oddly enough, such Kurdish meddling is a huge threat to the existing Iraqi question. But meanwhile back at the ranch, no strike that I mean Iraq, GWB&co. are holding on by a fingernail and hoping that the Iraqi democratic government will start asserting itself. And that requires the Sunni and the Shia to agree. And of the three major groups, the Sunnis will be the big losers in the whole Iraqi operation under GWB. As they go from being numero uno under Saddam to at best a 20% of the population minority group. And the Shia have 55-60% of the population and and therefore must dominate and democratic Iraq. But the Kurds are the giant joker and are the big winners of the current status quo. And the Kurdish choice is to cast their lot with the democratic majority, become like the Sunni a small majority, and perhaps ally with the Sunnis to prevent the Shia from being the new oppressors. But enough baggage exists there to make such Kurdish Sunni alliance about as easy as our NAACP allying with the KKK.

Or the Kurds can do something else. Which is to form their own state. And the notion that the Kurds speak with one voice is absurd. But meanwhile they straddle the fence
and more importantly they build up their bank account from the oil wells they control. And bank accounts can be used to buy both heavy and light weapons. And the PPK certainly has a terrorist wing with their own set of dreamers every bit as rational as our neocons. And to prevent their dreams of a united Kurdishstan rising up and carving up an empire made up of parts of Iraq and Turkey being submerged by the Iraqi alliance other option, those PPK nuts could well tempt a Turkish intervention to force their fellow Kurds to follow them into war.

And in that event, a mid-east war would be on and the USA would have far too few troops to contain anything as the entire mid-east goes onto a war footing.

But it would end the US debate as the question would become how do we get out troops out as fast as possible and maybe even still alive. With just a small part of the Turkish army weighing in at about 1.5X what we have in Iraq, a huge Iranian army just to the East, and a large Saudi army just to the South. And all roads go through Iraq. And gee if we just keep monkeying around and poking around with sharp sticks, we could get them all moving. And when the powder keg explodes, the entire mid-east will magically reassemble its self into paradise on earth.-----and meanwhile I have some Ocean front property to sell you in Wyoming.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
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Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: yllus
Topic Title: Plan to help Turkey hit Kurdish guerrillas shows techs hasn't learned that his attempts to spin everything into an anti-Bush rant are idiotic
Fixed!
Let me get this straight. Iraq is a sovereign country. The U.S. is now conspiring with another country (Turkey) to have Turkish troops enter Iraq and then the U.S. will help those troops carry out military operations. Against Iraqis.
Hmm... sort of sounds like a U.S. terrorist attack...on Iraq. Or maybe the U.S. is just attacking Iraq. Again.
Any way you look at it, it shows the Iraqis are NOT in charge of their country.
Is there any doubt as to why Iraqis look at the Iraqi government and ask why they should support it?
The Kurdish rebels regularly commit acts of terror within Turkey. there would be nothing from with going after those guerrillas just as we go after every other terrorist group.

quit fantasizing... or tripping.. whichever.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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It's ridiculous policies like this that make me wonder if in fact the US's only real goal in the middle east is to destabilize it.

 

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