Pissed off!!! How do I TALK to Paypal?!?!?

[Skaven]

Ok, this is REALLY pissing me off.

I purchased something using paypal. I am already verified, and I had them take the money out of my bank account ($877). I check my bank account today, and I have WAY less money than I was expecting. My statement looks normal... so I give my bank a call. They tell me that there are TWO!!! charges for $877! WTF?!?

One through the debt card, and the other was withdrawn directly from my account! ARRGH! I have other checks that have already gone out that WILL BOUNCE because of this.

To top it all off, I can't find ANYTHING on their page that resembles a phone number. No way I'm waiting for e-mail to get this thing done.

There has to be a number to call somewhere!! Anybody?

This is rediculous..

 

[PearlsGirl]

PayPal
P.O. Box 50185
Palo Alto, CA 94303
Toll Free Phone: (888) 221-1161
Customer Service Email: business@paypal.com

Was right there on their site.

_PsG

 

[hpkeeper]

heh... another "paypal is suck" thread, maybe I'll get rid of that account of mine before this happens to me.

 

[Skaven]

Thanks, I could only find the "Contact Us" page that only has their address..

Calling now...

 

[Skaven]

Brilliant... absolutely brilliant... :|

So here is what happened:

I click on "Send Money"
I then fill in the information for the amount/type and recipient.
Then click on "Continue"
It shows me the "send money confirm" page. Everything looks ok.


Pay To
user@domain.com
This recipient is not yet registered. PayPal will send an email to the recipient explaining how to open an account and receive your transaction.

Type Amount
Quasi-Cash $ 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Amount $ 1.00

Source of funds
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Instant Transfer
Bank One XXXXXX#### $1.00
More Payment Options

Then I selected that I would contact the seller for shipping info.
I then click "Send Money"
Poof! The money is gone. I get charged twice!

Here is what Paypal cust. service said to me. "When you do an Instant Transfer to your bank account, it puts a hold on your primary credit-card account to garantee the transfer."

To which I say: "Ok, why is that not EXPLICITLY stated BEFORE I send the money."
Paypal: "It is stated, that is what an 'Instant Transfer' is..."
Me: "How am I supposed to KNOW that?!"
Paypal: "You get a pop-up window when you send the money."

I didn't remember that part, so I got off the phone thinking that it was my own stupidity. But then I decided to call back, I wanted to speak to somebody else.
I explain exactly what happened again -- to a different lady. She says the same things... but I persist:

Me: "Where does it say that there will be a hold on my credit-card when I send the money."
Paypal: "Well, there is a 'More Payment Options' link that has information on the different types of payment."
Me: " 'More Payment Options' doesn't sound like it would have info on the current payment option..."
Paypal: "Well that is where it is"

In the meantime, I'm going to the web-page and trying it out myself. Sure enough in very small print, at the bottom of the details screen -- "More Payment Options". So I give it a click. Lo and behold, more payment options!!

Me: "I don't see anything about it putting a hold on my credit-card."
Paypal: "Well, you have to click on the question mark next to the payment type."

So I click on the question mark NEXT to "Instant Transfer" and get the following:
-----------------------------------------------
Instant Transfer is secured by a temporary hold to your primary credit or debit card. This is just like when you check into a hotel, and they pre-swipe your credit card, or when you set up an account at a video store.

The hold on your card will be released at your card-issuer's discretion, usually about 3-4 days. During this time, your credit card availability will be temporarily reduced by the amount of money you are sending.

It's best to use this feature with a credit card, rather than a debit card, because debit cards also draw on your checking account. If you want to find out which of your cards is primary, click on My Account - Profile- Credit Card.
-----------------------------------------------

There it is! HOW OBVIOUS! Anybody should be able to find that while doing a transaction... its so clear!! (dripping with sarcasm)
So I continue:

Me: "So Instant Transfer is the default transaction type..."
Paypal: "Yes, it is."
Me: "Can I change the default transaction type?"
Paypal: "No, you can not."
Me: "So how was I supposed to know that I was going to have a hold on my debit card? (which also happens to be my primary banking account)?"
Paypal: "You have to know what Instant Transfer means."
Me: "So I have to know to click on 'More Payment Options' and then find the info on Instant Transfer??"

This went on for about 5 minutes. I asked why there wasn't a popup window or at least SOME kind of warning on ANY of the pages. Why I had to dig for it... why they didn't make it obvious to the user etc... she said "This isn't a face to face company, you have to assume responsibility for finding the information... BLAH BLAH..."

Why can't you just put a WARNING up?!?!

Me: "Let me speak to your supervisor please."
Paypal: "I can send your request on to somebody else..."
Me: "But I want to talk to somebody about this."
Paypal: "You ARE talking to somebody..."

At this point I'm about to blow my lid... so I tell her to have that person contact me. "Ok, I will... CLICK"
If she hadn't done it, I would have.

So it seems that Paypal has a VERY sneaky way of putting your money on hold. They don't make it obvious at all to the end-user, and they don't even let you change it from the default!! I asked everybody I knew who has used Paypal, NONE of them were aware that there was a hold on their credit card when they sent a payment.

Anybody know what kind of access they have to the money that they have on hold?

On top of that, when I asked her what they would do if my checks bounced. She said that I should talk to my bank, because Paypal would not reimburse me. So I'm SCREWED with any charges I get for those bounced checks.

I think we need to make people aware of this. I also think that Paypal needs to make it MORE than obvious that they will be holding funds from our credit-cards. Besides, it just doesn't make sense to me! They have our bank-account information, they should know immediately that the funds are available. Why do they have to "back it up" by putting a hold on our credit-cards?!?!

Anybody else think this is bad business? Or am I the only one?!

One VERY FRUSTRATED customer... :disgust:

 

[rahvin]

NEVER EVER use a debit card on the internet. There, now you are warned.

 

[Skaven]

Tell me about it. <sheesh>

Problem is that I SUCK with credit-cards. At least the debit card takes right out of my account. I still don't agree with what Paypal is doing..

 

[BuckMaster]

Skaven they have a excuse for everything. I guess they think a common Internet User knows everything about their site and options. I guess for now on you need to move your curser around the whole webpage and if something highlights click on it to be safe. :| They do everything they can to cover themselves but after some kind of screw up its ALWAYS the users fault! Because you didnt read this or didnt click here ...blah blah blah.

Good Luck!

 

[Russ]

Sorry, but this cannot happen. Just ask the PayPal guy that hangs around here.

Yet, another example of why I refuse to use them to do business.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Damon]

Hi Skaven,


Based on what you have told me in the thread---this is what happened--

1. When you went to send money screen the choice was not clear as to what payment option you were using.
2. You requested a certain transaction called INSTANT ACH. Instant ACH initiates an ach deposit into your PayPal account (generally a 3-5 business day period to clear in), but we make the funds immediately available by securing it against the credit card. If your debit card was on file as your credit card it would explain the charges (the money transfer in and the hold). The hold on the credit card generally comes off in a 7-30 period from the issuing bank and we do not charge the card as long as the ach clears in.

It may seem complex and you are welcome to contact me at damon@paypal.com.

 

[Skaven]

Paypaldamon:
&quot;1. When you went to send money screen the choice was not clear as to what payment option you were using.&quot;

I didn't even know I HAD a choice! I saw &quot;Instant Transfer&quot; and assumed that it just meant that it would transfer the money from my bank account instantly. Nowhere does it give ANY indication that it will put a hold on my primary credit card... you have to KNOW where to look to find that info. If I knew where to look, I would have already known about it!

&quot;2. You requested a certain transaction called INSTANT ACH. Instant ACH initiates an ach deposit into your paypal account (generally a 3-5 business day period to clear in), but we make the funds immediately available by securing it against the credit card. If your debit card was on file as your credit card it would explain the charges (the money transfer in and the hold). The hold on the credit card generally comes off in a 7-30 period from the issuing bank and we do not charge the card as long as the ach clears in.&quot;

I requested it?!?!? HA! More like I was douped into using it. It is the default option. The default CAN NOT be changed. It says nothing about putting a hold on my card on the send money screen. On top of this all, you are telling me that the hold may not go away for 7-30 DAYS?!? That is INSANE!
What is this INSTANT ACH stuff anyway? The transaction that you claim I requested is called an &quot;Instant Transfer&quot; on my screen. Maybe if it said INSTANT ACH I would have actually tried to figure out what it meant!

All I have to say is, my funds better be available by Friday...

 

[Skaven]

What, no response?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. :|

 

[John]

<< What, no response? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. >>



He doesn't live on the BBS like ther rest of us, but he will answer your emails. Have you even bothered to email Damon?

 

[Skaven]

Ok, maybe I'm quick to judge... but my money is still on hold, and my checks are going to bounce. So I'm a bit edgy right now.

Also, I don't think this should be confined to e-mail. I want other people to know what is going on with this matter. If people know about it, I think that it could alleviate some problems.

But my question is, why does Paypal make the credit-card hold so obscure? Seems fishy to me...

 

[Damon]

Hi Skaven,

The choices for sending payment are fairly clear on the screen, but I have made it a point to our Product Group that it needs to be even clearer (regarding instant ACH withdrawals and the impact). Users that register their debit card as their credit card can negatively impact their bank account by using this feature and there will be better messaging.

It is a little hard for me to discern if that is what happened because I don't have access to your records. You can contact me at damon@paypal.com if you want me to verify that this is what happened.

 

[Skaven]

Paypaldamon:

That is exactly what happened. I saw &quot;Instant Transfer&quot; and assumed that it would just take the money out of my account. I was NOT aware of the credit-card hold on that type of transaction. Because I do have my debit card as my primary credit-card, it ended up putting a hold on my funds in the bank!!

There are plenty of things that can be done to prevent this from happening. There should be a drop-down box or something to select a payment type. The &quot;more payment options&quot; link isn't obvious enough. At the time I figured that I wanted an &quot;Instant Transfer&quot;, so I didn't even think about clicking on it.

Also, if &quot;Instant Transfer&quot; is selected, it should bring a pop-up windows that notifies the user that the funds will be put on hold from the primary credit-card. Click OK to continue or something similar to that.

I just think that the user should not have to dig for information like that. It should be presented to them one way or another. I also don't see the reasoning for putting the money on hold. You have access to our bank account, you should know within seconds if the funds are there. Why is there a need to back it up with a credit-card??

 

[Emulex]

Guys, you know better than putting a visa debit card up ANYWHERE, online.

Its bad news..

Paypal has the right to charge back any paypal to your credit cards...

Remove your debit cards now. If they and when they get hax0red you'll be sorry! Your rent money will be gone and your butt will be in trouble.

Always put a real visa card there if you have to, you can always dispute and charge back the $$ to paypal. Your credit card company will go to bat for you if they try to auto-charge your credit card. Disputes are successful to paypal, and there are stiff penalties to paypal when a dispute or &quot;charge back&quot; occurs to them. They can lose their merchant account or be fined for charge backs.

Again. don't be stupid and put a visa debit card anywhere online, its a real b*tch to deal with fraud and overcharges/etc with your bank. they don't have the departments to handle this as efficiently as your credit company does.

 

[Skaven]

Hmm.. I never thought about it that way. I'll remove it immediately.

Thanks for the tip!