Piracy and the Gray Area

[Aikouka]

So, this post was linked to in the Game of Thrones leak thread, and this part in particular caught my eye:

2) Telling people how to pirate or how to get around copy protection is not OK.

When I saw that, it got me wondering how exactly that applied to less blatant areas. I'd say that it's not terribly uncommon for home theater fans/enthusiasts to want to eschew discs for whatever reason (ease, no unskippable trailers, etc.), but given the copyright protections on the discs (AACS), you can't do that without breaking the protection. So, if someone asks me what software I use to rip the discs that I have purchased, am I even allowed to say anything? Frankly, I'm pretty certain we have discussed it over the 6.5 years since this post was written, and it might be considered "okay" as ripping the discs you own is considered a "gray area".

So, I'd like a bit of clarification on that if I could get it.

Oh, and apologies if this should've been in that really old thread. Let's just say that if Shakespeare lived in modern times, I'm pretty sure that he'd say, "To necro, or not to necro, that is the question--"

 

[pcslookout]

I would like to know this too!

 

[NuclearNed]

A similar issue that I'd like to tack on to this thread...

There is a homebrew tool named RawkSD that allows Wii Rock Band songs to be ripped from the original disk. The benefit is that doing this would allow me to play every song I've *legally purchased* from one giant Rock Band 2 song list, instead of constantly swapping disks back and forth. Unfortunately, it would be real easy to use this tool to pirate songs. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that Nintendo frowns on homebrew apps like this one.

I'm having trouble getting the tool to work. Would it be ok to start a thread on this subject?

 

[master_shake_]

So, this post was linked to in the Game of Thrones leak thread, and this part in particular caught my eye:



When I saw that, it got me wondering how exactly that applied to less blatant areas. I'd say that it's not terribly uncommon for home theater fans/enthusiasts to want to eschew discs for whatever reason (ease, no unskippable trailers, etc.), but given the copyright protections on the discs (AACS), you can't do that without breaking the protection. So, if someone asks me what software I use to rip the discs that I have purchased, am I even allowed to say anything? Frankly, I'm pretty certain we have discussed it over the 6.5 years since this post was written, and it might be considered "okay" as ripping the discs you own is considered a "gray area".

So, I'd like a bit of clarification on that if I could get it.

Oh, and apologies if this should've been in that really old thread. Let's just say that if Shakespeare lived in modern times, I'm pretty sure that he'd say, "To necro, or not to necro, that is the question--"

in canada it's pretty cut ad dry

Digital locks can be hacked for the following purposes:

• law enforcement and national security activities;
• reverse engineering for software compatibility;
• security testing of systems;
• encryption research;
• personal information protection;
• temporary recordings made by broadcast undertakings;
• access for persons with perceptual disabilities; and
• unlocking a wireless device.

you can't

http://balancedcopyright.gc.ca/eic/site/crp-prda.nsf/eng/rp01182.html

 

[jpishgar]

For personal, backup use, this is certainly something that can be discussed. If done, it needs to be done carefully, because moderators are empowered to often parse intent and tone. They aren't here to police personal behavior or assign guilt, and the benefit of the doubt will be paid where it is due.

esquared makes it clear the stance on piracy. Discussion is permitted, but enabling or referencing how to do it is not.

Talking about how Game of Thrones was pirated 800,000 over this last weekend is allowed.
Explaining where to get it is not.
Asking how to backup your Blu-Ray copy of Game of Thrones Season 1 is allowed.
Asking how to make duplicate copies of your Blu-Ray set of Game of Thrones Season 1 to give all your friends is not.

It's an important distinction between personal, private use which is permissible within the constraints of the law and running afoul of it.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.
-JP

 

[Ryan Smith]

For personal, backup use, this is certainly something that can be discussed. If done, it needs to be done carefully, because moderators are empowered to often parse intent and tone. They aren't here to police personal behavior or assign guilt, and the benefit of the doubt will be paid where it is due.

esquared makes it clear the stance on piracy. Discussion is permitted, but enabling or referencing how to do it is not.

Talking about how Game of Thrones was pirated 800,000 over this last weekend is allowed.
Explaining where to get it is not.
Asking how to backup your Blu-Ray copy of Game of Thrones Season 1 is allowed.
Asking how to make duplicate copies of your Blu-Ray set of Game of Thrones Season 1 to give all your friends is not.

It's an important distinction between personal, private use which is permissible within the constraints of the law and running afoul of it.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.
-JP

Indeed. This has been our policy for years and it hasn't changed. So long as it's fair use, then I want you guys to be comfortable talking about it here. What I don't want however is for this to be a den of thieves, which is why we clamp down on people helping others download material, or be a jerk about it by gloating.

 

[LevelSea]

Indeed. This has been our policy for years and it hasn't changed. So long as it's fair use, then I want you guys to be comfortable talking about it here. What I don't want however is for this to be a den of thieves, which is why we clamp down on people helping others download material, or be a jerk about it by gloating.

The very act of ripping (backup use) requires that you break the DRM, which is a violation of the DMCA, no?

 

[cabri]

The very act of ripping (backup use) requires that you break the DRM, which is a violation of the DMCA, no?

Many consider that to be an acceptable use.

The re-distribution of such afterwards is the main problem.

 

[potzocalli]

Many years ago I remember accepted law was "You may have 1 copy for archival purposes" . Is this still true? (or was it ever true?)

 

[jpishgar]

Don't be a jerk.

I like that. Let's make that our motto.

 

[Zodiark1593]

The very act of ripping (backup use) requires that you break the DRM, which is a violation of the DMCA, no?

Wouldn't it be the developer of the tool that has broken the DRM protection rather than the end user?

 

[cabri]

Wouldn't it be the developer of the tool that has broken the DRM protection rather than the end user?

End user is the one that utilized the tool.

 

[rudeguy]

The very act of ripping (backup use) requires that you break the DRM, which is a violation of the DMCA, no?

You are correct.

The DMCA does make circumventing encryption a crime. The DMCA does not have a fair use clause and the Fair Use bill died long ago. It is a crime to rip a DVD that you own to your own computer.

HOWEVER....is that law enforceable? How would anyone know that you had ripped it if you ripped it solely for your own use? The only way it would be known is if you broke one of the very simple rules posted above.

The problem we have and always have had is that people don't use common sense. Some person will see a thread asking about which software to use to rip his DVD collection and will assume its ok to talk about torrenting HBO shows. People just don't use common sense.

If the FBI wants to come arrest me because I ripped the copy of Super Troopers I bought 5 years ago, so be it. If the FBI wants to shut down AT because people were posting torrent links and discussing how to hack encryption? Well that would suck.