Pipe Cement for a box?

[thescreensavers]

I am building an Black ABS box(11" x 10" x 12") using 3/8 thick Black ABS

I am using #5(0.125)Wood Screws, so at 3 times diameter for screw to screw spacing that's about 32 screws on one side of the box, which means the whole box will have a ton of drilling and screws....


Could I just drill about 15 holes and apply the ABS Pipe Cement in between then screw the Pieces together?

http://www.amazon.com/Oatey-30916-Sp...contact+cement

has 800 PSI strength after 48 hours and dries black and is not too expensive.

Weldon has some ABS glues but they are $20+ and dry white. $25 for clear which is hard to find..

I have never made something like this before but, I believe it will work just asking for opinions.

Moved from OT to The Garage
-ViRGE

 

[EliteRetard]

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/091/9/c/miss_cheerilee__dafaq_by_un_worst-d4unhey.jpg

 

[EliteRetard]

32 screws per foot?

Me thinks you doing it wrong.

 

[thescreensavers]

32 screws per foot?

Me thinks you doing it wrong.

Do the math, or do you have any valid suggestions?

 

[Humpy]

I don't know where to get the data but I think you would have to compare the pullout/pull-through strength of each screw you were eliminating to the strength of the glue. I'd guess the screws without glue will be stronger overall if they are installed accurately.

I'm interested in the application. Will the box be pressurized?

 

[thescreensavers]

I don't know where to get the data but I think you would have to compare the pullout/pull-through strength of each screw you were eliminating to the strength of the glue. I'd guess the screws without glue will be stronger overall if they are installed accurately.

I'm interested in the application. Will the box be pressurized?

Nope, its for a college project. Just to house the power supplies..electronics.. with a screen and buttons on the outside, it will be pushed on but no major loads.

Well #5 machine screws max torque is 7.7 inch-lb with I assume similar mating material. Since ABS is much weaker than Steel lets say it can handle 30% the amount to steel, so Max assumed torque in ABS is 2.31 inch-lb

T = K * D * F

Where T = torque, K is the bolt/nut coefficient, D diameter of bolt, and F is the prealod force

Lets assume a K value of 0.15

2.31 = 0.15 * (0.125) * F

F = 123.2 Lb

So the screw will push the head of the screw(D = 0.245) into the material with a 123.2 Lb of force so Force/Area = PSI

123.2/0.047( area of a circle of 0.245) = 2600 PSI

At 3 times the diameter of the #5 screw(0.125) the load between screws we assume should be around the same as the Force(123.2lb)

The Pipe Cement is rated at 800 PSI

So if all our assumptions are almost correct the pipe cement would be weaker (2.31 inch lb of Torque)

Thanks Humpy for the help for the thought process

But Even though the glue is weaker, having 15 bolts + the Glue and a fully square box it should be plenty strong. Maybe I am over thinking things

 

[master_shake_]

pl premium

 

[herm0016]

ug... just build the thing. engineers...

max torque should be a measure of the torque for the screw stripping out in the material, and your measurments should not even be based on that, they should be based on pull out strength of the screw in your material. or the pull out of the head through the attached part.

< engineer....

 

[Greenman]

32 screws per side of a 12' box that doesn't hold pressure is insane. Use four for the entire panel, it will be fine.

 

[WoodButcher]

Use the glue you linked SS. Cut the panels for your box then glue together a couple scraps to test, do a couple pieces so you can see how fast it sets up, what the working time is to get the panels screwed in place. I think if you hold them in place for 30 seconds or so it will be set so it won't move without breaking.
That is a solvent cement so I don't think you'll have much time, glue it, place and hold it still.
The glue alone should hold that box but I would predrill and screw 3 per edge being careful not to spin the screw when the head bottoms out.

 

[EliteRetard]

32 screws per side of a 12' box that doesn't hold pressure is insane. Use four for the entire panel, it will be fine.

Isn't that what I said?

And he lists it as 12 inches ("), not 12 feet (').

Maybe 32 screws would be worthwhile at 12 feet.

 

[herm0016]

and....pipe cement box. pipe cement is a type of cement, a box made of it is what i thought you wanted by the thread title.

 

[PottedMeat]

3/8 is thick stuff

i'd use a router to make clean flat edges, apply the cement, and use framing clamps to hold it in place



lol if i did this all the damn pieces would be the right length but skewed at some slight angle

 

[thescreensavers]

ug... just build the thing. engineers...

max torque should be a measure of the torque for the screw stripping out in the material, and your measurments should not even be based on that, they should be based on pull out strength of the screw in your material. or the pull out of the head through the attached part.

< engineer....

lol , I do this too much, just build it is great but since I know just enough it clouds things up.

The calculations that I did were just ones I can obtain quickly, they were for max torque from a chart but a lot of assumptions. Pull out strength would have been good but I would have to create data.

3/8 is thick stuff

i'd use a router to make clean flat edges, apply the cement, and use framing clamps to hold it in place

lol if i did this all the damn pieces would be the right length but skewed at some slight angle

If I am lucky I'll have a waterjet(up "soon") cut it all out, if not the Mill I go

Use the glue you linked SS. Cut the panels for your box then glue together a couple scraps to test, do a couple pieces so you can see how fast it sets up, what the working time is to get the panels screwed in place. I think if you hold them in place for 30 seconds or so it will be set so it won't move without breaking.
That is a solvent cement so I don't think you'll have much time, glue it, place and hold it still.

The glue alone should hold that box but I would predrill and screw 3 per edge being careful not to spin the screw when the head bottoms out.

Yea I will definitely test it out, Data sheet says 1-2 min for set time at room temp, so Ill most likely put it in the fridge to give me more time.

Only three per edge would save me some time , All I need the screws for is to clamp/align it all so that could work.

I'm going to buy Plastite screws now which should work better than wood screws, stepping up to #6 since they do not have #5 in those screws.

 

[WoodButcher]

A few tips I learned working with plastics.
I would glue it together and allow it to set w/o screws, the fast set can work to your advantage.
Cover the area where you will glue up w/ wax paper, (workbench or table, whatever as long as it's clean and flat) the wax paper won't stick to your work as well as newsprint.
Don't try to clean the splooge when it's wet. Scrape or cut after the fact before it hardens solid.
If your parts are square one will align the next so don't wait for a hard set before starting the next.
Extra hands can be helpful, have masking tape handy for clamping purposes.
After the glue hardens then screw.

 

[thescreensavers]

A few tips I learned working with plastics.
I would glue it together and allow it to set w/o screws, the fast set can work to your advantage.
Cover the area where you will glue up w/ wax paper, (workbench or table, whatever as long as it's clean and flat) the wax paper won't stick to your work as well as newsprint.
Don't try to clean the splooge when it's wet. Scrape or cut after the fact before it hardens solid.
If your parts are square one will align the next so don't wait for a hard set before starting the next.
Extra hands can be helpful, have masking tape handy for clamping purposes.
After the glue hardens then screw.

Thanks for the tips but why not screw and glue? (no pun intended).

I will be milling pilot holes in the receiving end and water jetting or( milling holes) on the other piece so it will be lined up 100%, then Using a power drill and adjust the torque so I can tighten quickly and not over torque

My Current Plan was to Glue/screw the front side onto the bottom first. Since I have some things going inside (shelves of some sort which rely on the front piece only. Then attach the left and right sides on then wait a day to harden. Then put the top piece on, Depending on how messy I might install the internals then glue the back piece on.

CAD of the craziness, Its a TEC Can Cooler

http://i.imgur.com/C2wbwtq.png


Build Thread

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457799/the-ultimate-arduino-controlled-beverage-tec-cooler

 

[WoodButcher]

Most people wouldn't have it all predrilled and ready as you have already planned. This is a complex setup, it looks simple but one small error and the project is a wreck. As long as you pre assemble dry with the screws and it all works the way you expect you should be fine to assemble with glue.
Not knowing what skillset and tools someone else has I would always recommend the simplest ways of getting from a to b.
Seeing your thread at ocnet seems to me your already at b.... rofl
I made a chilled water loop a few years back w/ tecs. Interesting stuff it is.



Keep us posted here how you make out, I'd love to see the finished product.

 

[EliteRetard]

LOL all this to cool one drink...

I can cool about 48 times faster than your rig for just a few dollars.
Cheapazz foam cooler, ice, salt, water, 4x 12 packs, and 5 minutes.

That said, still looks like a fun project for the heck of it.
I'd probably experiment with circulating sub freezing liquid though for much shorter cooling times.

 

[thescreensavers]

^ Yep its just for the heck of it playing with peltiers cooling a soda + college project

I talked to someone knowledgeable today they said 4 screws per side should be ok and If I wanted I could use a hypodermic needle and squirt some glue in if I wanted but it is not needed.

Well in that case Ill just use a few more and see how it goes.

The Waterjet should be up in the next week which is good news I can have it do all the pilot holes on the outside pieces and save me a bit of work. I will have to clamp the stuff down good.