Picked up a Lee Enfield No.1 Mk. III SMLE .303 rifle today

[pontifex]

Went to a local gun show to look for mags for one of my pistols. Got those but came home with a Lee Enfield No.1 Mk. III SMLE .303 caliber rifle also.

$350 from a local collector who was selling some of his collection. He was an elderly guy, joked about the gun being as old he was. I told him I was new to older military firearms collecting and he was really nice and answered all my questions about the gun.

He said it's all original, but the stock was refinished. Looks pretty damn good. Even the bore is in really good shape.

I've always wanted to collect older military guns (specifically from WWII) but never really started. Most of the time they seem to be pretty expensive, plus I don't really know that much about what to look for and such. I took the plunge today with this one.

Something just stuck out with this one. I went back to it twice after looking at some other stuff and I just had to have it.

Now I'm trying to find out some more info about them, like where it was made and everything. I didn't think to ask the guy selling it. Going to do some research and maybe get a few books about them.

I did pick up a few boxes of what looks to be milsurp .303 ammo so I'll get to shoot it here as soon as the weather gets better. got soaked twice walking to and from the show because I had to park like a mile away and it was pouring down rain. I want to take it to my uncle who is a gunsmith and have him look it over beforehand though.

I'll welcome any info you guys have on these things.

And here are some pics!

Enfield1
Enfield2
Enfield3
Enfield4
Enfield5
Enfield6
Enfield7
Enfield8
Enfield9

 

[LemonHead]

Nice! My dad picked one up a few years back at a gun show. Used by the brits in WWI & II and others. The .303 cartrage is more expensive to get. They did make a version that shot the .308 if I recall

Here's the wiki on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Wow that thing is in fantastic shape. I was thinking the price was a little on the high side, but after looking at the pics, [borat]niiiice[/b]

Any more pics of the proof or inspectors marks? I can't really tell who made it.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

The S arrow A is an India marking. Make sure that thing is really a .303 and not a 7.62, a lot of these were converted to 7.62 NATO after India's independence.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
The S arrow A is an India marking. Make sure that thing is really a .303 and not a 7.62, a lot of these were converted to 7.62 NATO after India's independence.

I posted on actual gun forum that I visit also and one guy told me that the stock seems to be one from the 1960's. he also said that it looks like my rifle was originally made in 1918 at the Enfield factory and then refurbished at the Ishapore factory in India in the 1920s. He was going by the same pics I had posted here and referencing a book he had about the Enfields.

I'm a bit disappointed to hear that, but I still like it.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Nothing to be disappointed about. Every gun has it's on history.

The S arrow A is the Ishapore mark after India's independence in 1947 so a 60s era stock would be correct. They rebarreled a lot of these to 7.62 NATO and were called Enfield 2A or 2A1 (can't remember the difference)

What does the band say on the left side of rifle? It looks like an R arrow F but can't find anything on what that would be. A 1918 would probably be only made by SSA or the NAF IIRC.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Nothing to be disappointed about. Every gun has it's on history.

The S arrow A is the Ishapore mark after India's independence in 1947 so a 60s era stock would be correct. They rebarreled a lot of these to 7.62 NATO and were called Enfield 2A or 2A1 (can't remember the difference)

What does the band say on the left side of rifle? It looks like an R arrow F but can't find anything on what that would be. A 1918 would probably be only made by SSA or the NAF IIRC.

It says R arrow F. there is an I under the arrow. Under that it says 1926.
i found a site that says RFI markings indicate Ishapore, but this looks like RIF unless the I is to be read after the F since it's on the next line?

 

[CatchPhrase]

GUNS GUNS GUNSGUNS GUNS gunsgunsguns!

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

That would be weird though as Ishapore rifles made before Independence should be stamped GRI somewhere on the buttsocket. If the 1926 is a rearsenal date or something, I would have to doubt it is RFI, but I could be wrong. Enfields aren't my strong suit.

I think most bands on the left side are blank anyway. The arrow is a proof mark used by the British, but many other countries under Britain rule used the arrow as well when proofing.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
That would be weird though as Ishapore rifles made before Independence should be stamped GRI somewhere on the buttsocket. If the 1926 is a rearsenal date or something, I would have to doubt it is RFI, but I could be wrong. Enfields aren't my strong suit.

I think most bands on the left side are blank anyway. The arrow is a proof mark used by the British, but many other countries under Britain rule used the arrow as well when proofing.

I might have to look for an Enfield expert in the area and see if I can get any positive IDs on it.

 

[GooeyGUI]

That rifle was in the "Top Ten Rifles" on the military channel. It's a very nice weapon, but I forget what they actually said about it. Sorry, but every time I look it's usually top ten something else and I haven't seen it lately.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: GooeyGUI
That rifle was in the "Top Ten Rifles" on the military channel. It's a very nice weapon, but I forget what they actually said about it. Sorry, but every time I look it's usually top ten something else and I haven't seen it lately.

I saw a clip of it on youtube. just a bit of history behind it really.

 

[sjwaste]

You really don't want one chambered in 7.62 NATO if you plan to shoot it. I've read a few stories of them failing, it's just too powerful. Something about the steel being a bit too porous on some of those, so I never took the chance. The price was a little high, Ishapores used to go for under $200 but have since increased. It's a pretty cool rifle, though. See if you can find some surplus, but I've heard that Pakistani .303 has issues (could be wrong, but better to err on the side of caution).

What others do you have? I have an M38 Mosin Nagant, no longer operating because cases started splitting really bad on it. Also have a Swiss K-31, which is awesome, but a little expensive to take to the range nowadays.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
You really don't want one chambered in 7.62 NATO if you plan to shoot it. I've read a few stories of them failing, it's just too powerful. Something about the steel being a bit too porous on some of those, so I never took the chance. The price was a little high, Ishapores used to go for under $200 but have since increased. It's a pretty cool rifle, though. See if you can find some surplus, but I've heard that Pakistani .303 has issues (could be wrong, but better to err on the side of caution).

What others do you have? I have an M38 Mosin Nagant, no longer operating because cases started splitting really bad on it. Also have a Swiss K-31, which is awesome, but a little expensive to take to the range nowadays.

This is my first historical military firearm.

Sounds like I got ripped off a little because I made a uninformed, spur of the moment purchase, but now I know a ton more than I used to and can plan ahead for any future purchases.

oh, and based on other forums posts, looks like the .303 ammo i purchased for it might be Pakistani...

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: pontifex
This is my first historical military firearm.

Sounds like I got ripped off a little because I made a uninformed, spur of the moment purchase, but now I know a ton more than I used to and can plan ahead for any future purchases.

oh, and based on other forums posts, looks like the .303 ammo i purchased for it might be Pakistani...

Eh, its ok. I had the same thing happen when I bought my Mosin. I think I paid like $125 for it, when they were worth maybe $75 tops at the time. I still had plenty of fun with it before it became unsafe to use.

Google that Pakistani ammo. There's one that was supposedly a bad origin to use. There was also another that just stunk really bad b/c they used cordite in the primer (I think). I don't own one, so I never paid careful attention to it, but I remember reading something about it. It might just be that it misfires a lot.

Since this is your first surplus, I'll tell you this, but if you already knew I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. If you chamber one, fire, and nothing happens, keep the rifle pointed downrange for 30 sec. You could probably get away with less, but a hangfire is a lot worse than a misfire if you do, so I don't. It happens with surplus ammo, especially when it hasn't been stored well. I'm lucky enough to be near the NRA HQ, which has a great range in it. They keep a dud box, use that if your range has one.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: pontifex
This is my first historical military firearm.

Sounds like I got ripped off a little because I made a uninformed, spur of the moment purchase, but now I know a ton more than I used to and can plan ahead for any future purchases.

oh, and based on other forums posts, looks like the .303 ammo i purchased for it might be Pakistani...

Eh, its ok. I had the same thing happen when I bought my Mosin. I think I paid like $125 for it, when they were worth maybe $75 tops at the time. I still had plenty of fun with it before it became unsafe to use.

Google that Pakistani ammo. There's one that was supposedly a bad origin to use. There was also another that just stunk really bad b/c they used cordite in the primer (I think). I don't own one, so I never paid careful attention to it, but I remember reading something about it. It might just be that it misfires a lot.

Since this is your first surplus, I'll tell you this, but if you already knew I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. If you chamber one, fire, and nothing happens, keep the rifle pointed downrange for 30 sec. You could probably get away with less, but a hangfire is a lot worse than a misfire if you do, so I don't. It happens with surplus ammo, especially when it hasn't been stored well. I'm lucky enough to be near the NRA HQ, which has a great range in it. They keep a dud box, use that if your range has one.

Yep, I was already warned about the delayed fire with surplus ammo. One guy told me Greek ammo is one of the best to use. I assumed he meant Greek manufactured?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: pontifex
This is my first historical military firearm.

Sounds like I got ripped off a little because I made a uninformed, spur of the moment purchase, but now I know a ton more than I used to and can plan ahead for any future purchases.

oh, and based on other forums posts, looks like the .303 ammo i purchased for it might be Pakistani...

Eh, its ok. I had the same thing happen when I bought my Mosin. I think I paid like $125 for it, when they were worth maybe $75 tops at the time. I still had plenty of fun with it before it became unsafe to use.

Google that Pakistani ammo. There's one that was supposedly a bad origin to use. There was also another that just stunk really bad b/c they used cordite in the primer (I think). I don't own one, so I never paid careful attention to it, but I remember reading something about it. It might just be that it misfires a lot.

Since this is your first surplus, I'll tell you this, but if you already knew I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. If you chamber one, fire, and nothing happens, keep the rifle pointed downrange for 30 sec. You could probably get away with less, but a hangfire is a lot worse than a misfire if you do, so I don't. It happens with surplus ammo, especially when it hasn't been stored well. I'm lucky enough to be near the NRA HQ, which has a great range in it. They keep a dud box, use that if your range has one.

Yep, I was already warned about the delayed fire with surplus ammo. One guy told me Greek ammo is one of the best to use. I assumed he meant Greek manufactured?

Dunno of any Greek surplus .303 ammo. If they mean Olympic (which is current made ammo) stay away from it, it's junk.

Sellier and Bellot make pretty good stuff.

I don't know anything about the Pakistani ammo other than it's corrosive, so clean accordingly.

 

[Triumph]

You could've bought 5 Mosin Nagant's for the price of that one rifle.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Triumph
You could've bought 5 Mosin Nagant's for the price of that one rifle.

but I didn't really want a Mosin Nagant at the time.

 

[sjwaste]

I'd work off of the assumption that any surplus you use is corrosive and clean accordingly. I usually plug the muzzle end of the barrel, pour in windex, and agitate with the cleaning rod w/ a loose-fitting brush. Drain and repeat once, then clean as normal (solvent and patches, or whatever else you like). Oil and store.

As for not wanting a Mosin, they're basically getting what you pay for. I probably won't buy another to replace mine. It's a fun rifle to learn on, but most are not terribly accurate, even if you get one with a good looking bore. In the carbine length (M38, 44), they also have very little mass. Even using the light ball ammo (and I don't recommend using heavier rounds, as they just weren't issued with that, so it might be pushing the design limits a bit), they kick really hard. After about 20 rounds, it's not a whole lot of fun. Of course, I'm talking about the Russian manufactures here, which are the cheap ones that just about every surplus enthusiast starts off with. The Finnish M39 is far more accurate, generally in better condition, and also worth considerably more (think $300 for a decent specimen). I don't have one, but I'd like to take one to the range for a day.

 

[dennilfloss]

That rifle is a classic. In Canada too we used to simply call it a 303.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I'd work off of the assumption that any surplus you use is corrosive and clean accordingly. I usually plug the muzzle end of the barrel, pour in windex, and agitate with the cleaning rod w/ a loose-fitting brush. Drain and repeat once, then clean as normal (solvent and patches, or whatever else you like). Oil and store.

As for not wanting a Mosin, they're basically getting what you pay for. I probably won't buy another to replace mine. It's a fun rifle to learn on, but most are not terribly accurate, even if you get one with a good looking bore. In the carbine length (M38, 44), they also have very little mass. Even using the light ball ammo (and I don't recommend using heavier rounds, as they just weren't issued with that, so it might be pushing the design limits a bit), they kick really hard. After about 20 rounds, it's not a whole lot of fun. Of course, I'm talking about the Russian manufactures here, which are the cheap ones that just about every surplus enthusiast starts off with. The Finnish M39 is far more accurate, generally in better condition, and also worth considerably more (think $300 for a decent specimen). I don't have one, but I'd like to take one to the range for a day.

Blasphemy! A Mosin may not be accurate, or beautifully crafted, but it is the most fun rifle I have to shoot, and the fireball alone is worth the 89 bananas I paid for it. At that price, there's no reason not to have one. As a piece of military surplus, it belongs in any collection. The recoil really isn't that bad when you're standing up. I can go through 40 or 50 rounds, but when sitting down, 2 rounds per shoulder and I had yellow bruises the next morning.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I'd work off of the assumption that any surplus you use is corrosive and clean accordingly. I usually plug the muzzle end of the barrel, pour in windex, and agitate with the cleaning rod w/ a loose-fitting brush. Drain and repeat once, then clean as normal (solvent and patches, or whatever else you like). Oil and store.

As for not wanting a Mosin, they're basically getting what you pay for. I probably won't buy another to replace mine. It's a fun rifle to learn on, but most are not terribly accurate, even if you get one with a good looking bore. In the carbine length (M38, 44), they also have very little mass. Even using the light ball ammo (and I don't recommend using heavier rounds, as they just weren't issued with that, so it might be pushing the design limits a bit), they kick really hard. After about 20 rounds, it's not a whole lot of fun. Of course, I'm talking about the Russian manufactures here, which are the cheap ones that just about every surplus enthusiast starts off with. The Finnish M39 is far more accurate, generally in better condition, and also worth considerably more (think $300 for a decent specimen). I don't have one, but I'd like to take one to the range for a day.

Blasphemy! A Mosin may not be accurate, or beautifully crafted, but it is the most fun rifle I have to shoot, and the fireball alone is worth the 89 bananas I paid for it. At that price, there's no reason not to have one. As a piece of military surplus, it belongs in any collection. The recoil really isn't that bad when you're standing up. I can go through 40 or 50 rounds, but when sitting down, 2 rounds per shoulder and I had yellow bruises the next morning.

You want recoi in a milsurpl try the Enfeild No 5 Mk 1 Jungle Carbine. Ouch....

I have one but not ashamed to admit I slipped a recoil pad on it.

 

[Kelvrick]

Enfield eh, I was thinking about one of those just because it was british. Personally, I would have picked up a mauser or swiss K31 over an enfield but thats just me.

The mosin's sure are fun, the metal butt plate makes things nice as well. I think they were designed to be used with the big coats that russians wear for their winter and so in our regular clothes here, there is a little more bite for each shot.

 

[JoeBleed]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
The Finnish M39 is far more accurate, generally in better condition, and also worth considerably more (think $300 for a decent specimen). I don't have one, but I'd like to take one to the range for a day.

wow, so my $89 M39 is worth that much after only a few years... She is a good rifel. I will never sell it.

I do want an orginal nagant just for comparison. My M44 is alos nice. REAL fun to shoot ad a twilite time.



As for the corosive amo, defentlay clean apropetly. Regular gun oil and cleaning agents don't work. the windex works, soapy water works. and when you are done with that hit it with wd-40 to displace the water until you can get back and clean and oil it.

look for "The box o truth" website, he has a good articl on there about caring for rifles that fire corosive ammo.

Edit: here is the link
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/cr.htm
#13 for the corosive ammo cleaning.
#63 for anyone with an in acurate nagant.