PhysX previews

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

imported_Shaq

Senior member
Sep 24, 2004
731
0
0
"Standard - one GPU renders both Graphics + PhysX (not ideal as you'll need a lot of GPU horsepower).
SLI mode - have two GPUs render both Graphics + PhysX.
Multi-GPU mode - GPU1 renders Graphics and GPU2 renders PhysX."

It looks like you can run in multi-GPU mode or SLI mode according to Guru3d. It will be interesting to see which is faster. I think that the Multi-GPU mode would eliminate microstutter however. I wonder if a regular PCI slot card would be enough to process PhysX? If there is one with stream processors.

Does anyone think this could help sell GX2's? If you don't have two PCI x8 slots on your motherboard I think it might. But we will have to see the performance vs. 260 and 280 I guess.

EDIT:http://www.firingsquad.com/har..._performance/page8.asp

It looks like 2 9800 GTX's do indeed perform better than a GTX 280 on the Warmonger benchmark. 78.9 vs. 63.7 @ 1600 and the others are basically the same. So far I'm glad I didn't upgrade my GX2 for a 280.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
multi gpu mode actually works (today) with non nvidia motherboards, and asymmetrical cards as well.
 

imported_Shaq

Senior member
Sep 24, 2004
731
0
0
Originally posted by: taltamir
multi gpu mode actually works (today) with non nvidia motherboards, and asymmetrical cards as well.
But you still need two PCI-X slots correct? I don't see any vanilla PCI slot cards that have the stream processors.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
pcie, not pcix, pcix is an old old slot for servers. faster then pci, slower then agp.

but yes, you need two.
 

ccubed

Member
Jul 4, 2008
75
0
0
What about running an ATI card for the rendering and having an Nvidia card strictly for PhysX?
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: ccubed
What about running an ATI card for the rendering and having an Nvidia card strictly for PhysX?
I suppose that would be fine, but mixing drivers might be unpredictable. Has been for most in the past. It's one of the main reasons people run driver cleaner when going from ATI to Nvidia or Nvidia to ATI. You don't want any driver remnants left over to screw with your system.

But, it can definitely be tried. Anyone want to send me a 4850/70? :D
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
yea. in theory it should work... in theory.
that used to be the prime way to get more monitors on a machine before crossfireX allowed more then 2 monitors.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
So, again, as someone already asked: Can you use a gfx card in the pcie 1x slot for physx? And will the old Physx cards be any good for this newer implementation of Physx?

Of course now that i think of it, there was a limitation to what GPUs that can use Physx. If I remember correctly there are no GPUs that support Physx that go in a 1x slot. Is this true?
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: spittledip
So, again, as someone already asked: Can you use a gfx card in the pcie 1x slot for physx? And will the old Physx cards be any good for this newer implementation of Physx?

Of course now that i think of it, there was a limitation to what GPUs that can use Physx. If I remember correctly there are no GPUs that support Physx that go in a 1x slot. Is this true?
AFAIK, there arent any graphics cards for PCI-e 1x slots. At least not any that are Physx ready (8 series and above Nvidia)

The Ageia Physx PPU uses a 1x slot AFAIK. Technically, you can use any ATI or NV card as the gaming card, and the Physx card to run physx.

Actual Physx cards are still supported in Nvidia's Physx driver pack. BUT there is no guarantee how much longer they will support stand alone Physx cards. As of right now, they do.

I just ran UT3 HeatRay Physx level using 2 9800GTX+'s. Not in SLI, but with the primary 9800GTX+ doing the game rendering, and the secondary card running Physx only.
Now, I'm about to try SLI + Physx.

Lots of interesting combos with this. Very flexible. I could use an 8600GT in the second PCI-e slot to run Physx while the 9800GTX+ renders the game.

Anyway, too much info. Sorry. I hope your question was answered?
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
166
106
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: ccubed
What about running an ATI card for the rendering and having an Nvidia card strictly for PhysX?
I suppose that would be fine, but mixing drivers might be unpredictable. Has been for most in the past. It's one of the main reasons people run driver cleaner when going from ATI to Nvidia or Nvidia to ATI. You don't want any driver remnants left over to screw with your system.

But, it can definitely be tried. Anyone want to send me a 4850/70? :D
FYI, this won't work under Vista. You can only have 1 set of WDDM drivers installed.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: ViRGE
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: ccubed
What about running an ATI card for the rendering and having an Nvidia card strictly for PhysX?
I suppose that would be fine, but mixing drivers might be unpredictable. Has been for most in the past. It's one of the main reasons people run driver cleaner when going from ATI to Nvidia or Nvidia to ATI. You don't want any driver remnants left over to screw with your system.

But, it can definitely be tried. Anyone want to send me a 4850/70? :D
FYI, this won't work under Vista. You can only have 1 set of WDDM drivers installed.
Are you sure about that? I mean I knew that mixing drivers would be testy at best. If so, that is just another chalk up for Vista. Thanks for that important bit of info Virge.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: spittledip
So, again, as someone already asked: Can you use a gfx card in the pcie 1x slot for physx? And will the old Physx cards be any good for this newer implementation of Physx?

Of course now that i think of it, there was a limitation to what GPUs that can use Physx. If I remember correctly there are no GPUs that support Physx that go in a 1x slot. Is this true?
AFAIK, there arent any graphics cards for PCI-e 1x slots. At least not any that are Physx ready (8 series and above Nvidia)

The Ageia Physx PPU uses a 1x slot AFAIK. Technically, you can use any ATI or NV card as the gaming card, and the Physx card to run physx.

Actual Physx cards are still supported in Nvidia's Physx driver pack. BUT there is no guarantee how much longer they will support stand alone Physx cards. As of right now, they do.

I just ran UT3 HeatRay Physx level using 2 9800GTX+'s. Not in SLI, but with the primary 9800GTX+ doing the game rendering, and the secondary card running Physx only.
Now, I'm about to try SLI + Physx.

Lots of interesting combos with this. Very flexible. I could use an 8600GT in the second PCI-e slot to run Physx while the 9800GTX+ renders the game.

Anyway, too much info. Sorry. I hope your question was answered?
There are 1x cards, but they are old crappy cards and are not 9xxx or 8xxx models. At least at Newegg there aren't any. I am guessing they don't ahve any b/c there was no demand for them. however, it would be nice to finally use some of those mainly useless pcie 1x slots...

Is the support for the Physx cards as crappy as it was before? Or has Nvidia's implementation made better use of it? That could be a route to take if nothing else, if the implementation is better than previously.

edit: I shouldn't say pcie x1 slots are useless. They just have been for my purposes :D
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
isnt there an 8800GT pci card? (not PCIe). that should work as a basic secondary physX processor.
Well, if the DRIVERS work with mixing pci card with PCIe card.
 

imported_Shaq

Senior member
Sep 24, 2004
731
0
0
I'm liking it so far. I ran the Nurien demo, Warmonger and GRAW2. I haven't found the rest of the demos yet. I got a 57fps avg. with my 9800GX2 in Nurien. With multi display mode I'm not sure if my OC is working. Rivatuner doesn't work in that mode or it's the new drivers. Ageia island in GRAW2 is a little over the top on debris flying through the air. The explosions are nice though.
 

shangshang

Senior member
May 17, 2008
830
0
0
next wave of new games will bring lots Physx with them! NV owners will be well positioned to reap the benefit
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
http://www.driverheaven.net/ar...articleid=122&pageid=5

Check out those graw playback examples. (there are two, first is a flag, the second shows actual first order physics and how it affects the gameplay, also READ what they had to say!)

Check out the second movie, true use of first order physX that works (still, does not look completely "right", but it is intuitive.) without physX, you can shoot at a fence. after X shots it will explode.
With physX the AI and the player can shoot at a fence and it will break in segments where you hit it. both the AI (which is the more impressive part) and players utilize that to create a hole to shoot through while maintaining cover (you are not seen, there is just a gun sticking out through a tiny hole, makes ambushes possible).
This adds a whole new dimension to games, a dimension we wanted since physX was first announced and was never delivered.

physX has mainly been used for some extra particle effects until now, which is downright pathetic. The first movie on that page is typical of physX thus far... the flag "waves in the wind" (who cares) gets ugly holes "cut through it" when you shoot it. And clips over itself because for some reason all clothe items in physX clip over themselves. The unrealistic motion of the clothe isn't helping either. It is fancier, not more realistic.
Completely pathetic, and waste of technology.

The UT3 example is just showing that physX on GPU gives faster FPS, while doing the exact same "extra particle effect" type physX as the CPU. the destruction looks the same (and it is not fully destructible or first order physics, and it does NOT look realistic either). Extra FPS is nice, but not the holy grail of immersion.

We already have a thread for the previews, please use it

-ViRGE
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
another damn PhysX thread
:D

How about i wait 3 more days and D/L Nvidia's *free* pack to try it for myself. Then we can really talk about it. if it looks spectacular - if slow - on my 8800GTX, then i will pick up a cheap ass nvidia GPU for the physics acceleration. it won't be perfect in my 4x 2nd PCIe slot but should give me a good idea and the "feel" of it for myself. All you guys with nvidia GPUs can do the same for yourselves instead of watching Demos

Nvidia is doing this part right ... they are remembering US!
:heart:

finally . . .

Then if i fall in love with it, i can get a SLi board and wait for the 5 games that will use it this year
:roll:


i am gonna get a 16x+16x MB and QC anyway :p;
 

will889

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2003
1,463
5
81
No you'll get 3 suck ass games and one "ok" game, then maybe one "good" game. Maybe - in a year. Totally not worth it. Non refined. Non viable. Gimmicky (JMO).
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,286
6
81
Originally posted by: taltamir
isnt there an 8800GT pci card? (not PCIe). that should work as a basic secondary physX processor.
Well, if the DRIVERS work with mixing pci card with PCIe card.
There is no such a creation.
I think that the max Nvdia card produced in PCI flavor is the 8600GT.

The 8800GT is not produced in the PCI and AGP buses...
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: will889
No you'll get 3 suck ass games and one "ok" game, then maybe one "good" game. Maybe - in a year. Totally not worth it. Non refined. Non viable. Gimmicky (JMO).
August 12, Nvidia is offering a free D/L of Warmonger - a full game - and a few maps and some tech demos showcasing PhysX

http://www.guru3d.com/article/physx-by-nvidia-review/5

i will want to try them out; my 8800GTX will give me an idea if i need to pick up an 8600GT [for example] as the PhysX processor

my 4870 will wait patiently
 

will889

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2003
1,463
5
81
Originally posted by: adlep
Originally posted by: taltamir
isnt there an 8800GT pci card? (not PCIe). that should work as a basic secondary physX processor.
Well, if the DRIVERS work with mixing pci card with PCIe card.
There is no such a creation.
I think that the max Nvdia card produced in PCI flavor is the 8600GT.

The 8800GT is not produced in the PCI and AGP buses...
Never seen or heard of an 8600GT "PCI" card - 6200 would be the best PCI NV card I have seen (true PCI no PCIe). Do you have a link to an 8600GT PCI card? I'm not saying it's not there somewhere - just that I have never see one or heard one mentioned before.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY