physx on ati

[Pelu]

anyone remember that prank of some guys claiming that ati cards runned physx lol... I remember that thing today and i was wondering in what end up that...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Pelu
anyone remember that prank of some guys claiming that ati cards runned physx lol... I remember that thing today and i was wondering in what end up that...

Who said it was a hoax? I'm pretty sure they got PhysX running on a 3xxx series card way back when.

 

[RockinZ28]

I dunno but I wish it were true and they updated it. Was looking into it for Batman. Don't think it's worth my time to install XP and drive to my parents house to pick up a pci-e cable for my modular psu to plug in my 8800gts + 4890 tho, a quick driver update to run on ati would be real nice.

 

[dflynchimp]

I don't think they meant the project as a hoax. Probably what happened is they got some form of code together that allowed them to run rudimentary implementations of the physx code, at least enough for them to put put screan shots. But they started advertising their efforts before they had all the kinks worked out and chances are they couldn't get the code into a publishable or bug free format.

 

[EnzoLT]

it wasnt a hoax. they just met strong opposition from both ati and nvidia.

 

[Sylvanas]

Was this the guy from Beyond3D or something that got it running on a 3870? From what I remember I think he pulled the project but Nvidia offered him some form of developer role if he was employed by them or just privy to Beta's and stuff I don't know.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: EnzoLT
it wasnt a hoax. they just met strong opposition from both ati and nvidia.

Only 2/3 correct. This guy, Eran Badit of NGOHQ.com, received help from Nvidia.

 

[dflynchimp]

this was all before Nvidia chose the stance of locking out its competitor by changing the physX driver to not run when an ATI card is present in the system...

 

[Keysplayr]

Yes, about 15 months before. AMD made their choice long ago. I guess Nvidia just finally opted to make it real.

 

[Pelu]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Pelu
anyone remember that prank of some guys claiming that ati cards runned physx lol... I remember that thing today and i was wondering in what end up that...

Who said it was a hoax? I'm pretty sure they got PhysX running on a 3xxx series card way back when.

want me to pull hoax like this to prove that this was also a hoax... because I can get a screenshot like that showing the radeon card in teh physx control panel and no download or driver at all

 

[Pelu]

okok so is not a hoax... is more like a pure vaporware... in other words the big ones nvidia and ati screw this guy up... nvidia because they are greedy and ati becasue they are clumsy and doesnt show anything good?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Pelu
okok so is not a hoax... is more like a pure vaporware... in other words the big ones nvidia and ati screw this guy up... nvidia because they are greedy and ati becasue they are clumsy and doesnt show anything good?

Has your posting tirade of late been spawned by perhaps Nvidia's lockout of PhysX when ATI card it present? If you're that dead set on running PhysX, then just sell both of your cards and get a better card that can run PhysX. Your call. But by god, be done with it already.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Pelu
okok so is not a hoax... is more like a pure vaporware... in other words the big ones nvidia and ati screw this guy up... nvidia because they are greedy and ati becasue they are clumsy and doesnt show anything good?

Has your posting tirade of late been spawned by perhaps Nvidia's lockout of PhysX when ATI card it present? If you're that dead set on running PhysX, then just sell both of your cards and get a better card that can run PhysX. Your call. But by god, be done with it already.

Perhaps people don't want to be done with it? It's a noteworthy discussion with regards to how NVIDIA is managing PhysX. It's also timely in that with the release of Bat Man: AA, PhysX finally has a title people give a crap about. I have both the PC and Xbox demo versions of the game, and aside from the usual better looking PC graphics, PhysX does add quite a bit to the game visually.

Bat Man could potentially be the PhysX win NV was looking for, but their lack of support for true discrete PhysX card might sour the win for them. Public opinion is probably going to be the deciding factor on PhysX' long term success. Perhaps with enough rants about it, NVIDIA might realize it wasn't the wisest move.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Pelu
okok so is not a hoax... is more like a pure vaporware... in other words the big ones nvidia and ati screw this guy up... nvidia because they are greedy and ati becasue they are clumsy and doesnt show anything good?

Has your posting tirade of late been spawned by perhaps Nvidia's lockout of PhysX when ATI card it present? If you're that dead set on running PhysX, then just sell both of your cards and get a better card that can run PhysX. Your call. But by god, be done with it already.

Perhaps people don't want to be done with it? It's a noteworthy discussion with regards to how NVIDIA is managing PhysX. It's also timely in that with the release of Bat Man: AA, PhysX finally has a title people give a crap about. I have both the PC and Xbox demo versions of the game, and aside from the usual better looking PC graphics, PhysX does add quite a bit to the game visually.

Bat Man could potentially be the PhysX win NV was looking for, but their lack of support for true discrete PhysX card might sour the win for them. Public opinion is probably going to be the deciding factor on PhysX' long term success. Perhaps with enough rants about it, NVIDIA might realize it wasn't the wisest move.

The "be done with it" comment addresses his presence all over the video forum the past two days trying to figure out how to hack Vista, or the 190 drivers. But whatever. To each his own.

Batman is really a sweet looking game. But Nvidia doesn't lack support for true discrete PhysX cards. Just not with ATI cards.
Between you, me, and the doorknob, I think Nvidia knows the allure of PhysX and what it means to all, and I mean ALL, true gamers. True gamers "want" PhysX, whether they choose to admit it or not (specifically all the PhysX nay-sayers). If and when PhysX becomes the standard for gaming physics, and AMD doesn't jump aboard this ship (might already be too late), that would be a very grave situation for them. Larrabee and Havok are probably two years out. That is a LOT of time for new PhysX titles to bust out. What is going to happen? I'm talking frankly here. What's going to happen in the real world of gamers card purchases? I think the shareholders are loving life right now. Or will be soon. DX10.1 was hardly ever an issue, and that will even be moot soon as DX11 is just about here. Could you imagine the mass hysteria if Nvidia launched GT300 with DX11.1 support? Duck and cover. Stop, drop and roll!

Sorry for the babble, but I'm surprised so many people don't see what's happening.

 

[Pelu]

hey dudes... I dont have a magic wand... to get those cards sold... maybe Harry Potter can get that done... lol!

 

[imported_Shaq]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Pelu
okok so is not a hoax... is more like a pure vaporware... in other words the big ones nvidia and ati screw this guy up... nvidia because they are greedy and ati becasue they are clumsy and doesnt show anything good?

Has your posting tirade of late been spawned by perhaps Nvidia's lockout of PhysX when ATI card it present? If you're that dead set on running PhysX, then just sell both of your cards and get a better card that can run PhysX. Your call. But by god, be done with it already.

Perhaps people don't want to be done with it? It's a noteworthy discussion with regards to how NVIDIA is managing PhysX. It's also timely in that with the release of Bat Man: AA, PhysX finally has a title people give a crap about. I have both the PC and Xbox demo versions of the game, and aside from the usual better looking PC graphics, PhysX does add quite a bit to the game visually.

Bat Man could potentially be the PhysX win NV was looking for, but their lack of support for true discrete PhysX card might sour the win for them. Public opinion is probably going to be the deciding factor on PhysX' long term success. Perhaps with enough rants about it, NVIDIA might realize it wasn't the wisest move.

The "be done with it" comment addresses his presence all over the video forum the past two days trying to figure out how to hack Vista, or the 190 drivers. But whatever. To each his own.

Batman is really a sweet looking game. But Nvidia doesn't lack support for true discrete PhysX cards. Just not with ATI cards.
Between you, me, and the doorknob, I think Nvidia knows the allure of PhysX and what it means to all, and I mean ALL, true gamers. True gamers "want" PhysX, whether they choose to admit it or not (specifically all the PhysX nay-sayers). If and when PhysX becomes the standard for gaming physics, and AMD doesn't jump aboard this ship (might already be too late), that would be a very grave situation for them. Larrabee and Havok are probably two years out. That is a LOT of time for new PhysX titles to bust out. What is going to happen? I'm talking frankly here. What's going to happen in the real world of gamers card purchases? I think the shareholders are loving life right now. Or will be soon. DX10.1 was hardly ever an issue, and that will even be moot soon as DX11 is just about here. Could you imagine the mass hysteria if Nvidia launched GT300 with DX11.1 support? Duck and cover. Stop, drop and roll!

Sorry for the babble, but I'm surprised so many people don't see what's happening.

If PhysX can get in the major titles next year I think it can become the standard. It is going to be in Dragon Age and Borderlands this year which are pretty big titles. But next year about 30 good games should come out since a lot of them got delayed. Hopefully Nvidia is trying to get included in Bioshock 2, Rage, Crysis 2, Mass Effect 2 etc. However I think Rage will use Havok and Crysis 2 will use their own engine so they may have to put it in lesser games which won't help adoption, but if they can get in AAA games next year it will be interesting.

 

[ronnn]

Most are sure it was a hit thing with ngoqh and there never was a driver that ran physx. At least no one has it and has reproduced their supposed results.

I agree physx can become standard, if a console can support it. Still will be a difficult sell without amd and intel on side.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Nvidia doesn't lack support for true discrete PhysX cards. Just not with ATI cards.

I have a PCI X-Fi sound card. It works on any system with a compatible PCI slot and compatible OS - regardless of cpu, memory, or video card used. The reason for this is because it is a discrete sound card.

If NVIDIA either won't or isn't able to have PhysX capable cards function regardless of the video card used, they don't support a discrete PhysX card. They have a NVIDIA proprietary add on card for their primary video card, or something... I dunno... It's not a discrete PhysX card. Theoretically, a discrete PhysX card should be able to perform the required calculations with any or without a video card at all. That's the way other discrete cards work.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Nvidia doesn't lack support for true discrete PhysX cards. Just not with ATI cards.

I have a PCI X-Fi sound card. It works on any system with a compatible PCI slot and compatible OS - regardless of cpu, memory, or video card used. The reason for this is because it is a discrete sound card.

If NVIDIA either won't or isn't able to have PhysX capable cards function regardless of the video card used, they don't support a discrete PhysX card. They have a NVIDIA proprietary add on card for their primary video card, or something... I dunno... It's not a discrete PhysX card. Theoretically, a discrete PhysX card should be able to perform the required calculations with any or without a video card at all. That's the way other discrete cards work.

Your ASUS P6T also has ADI AD2000B 8-channel premium onboard audio that probably has just as good audio reproduction as your X-Fi, but you choose not to use it. It sits there. Wasted silicon. Most modern motherboards have onboard audio. A discrete audio card really isn't required, but more of a "want" than anything else.

If you "want" PhysX capability in your system, You'll need at least one Nvidia GPU. AMD made a choice. They will not support PhysX technology. Nvidia put all the capital, research, any and all resources into PhysX technology. Work with many game developers to further the tech. And always working to improve this tech. Why should AMD, with it's negative stance towards PhysX technology, benefit from Nvidia's labors by being able to run PhysX with a dedicated Nvidia GPU? That was a free ride for an unsupportive AMD.
If AMD had supported PhysX from the beginning, rest assured PhysX would have already become the standard. I believe it still will, but just take longer without AMD's support. AMD opted to hold back the tech industry with this move for their own business reasons. Similar to Nvidia's business reasons for locking out PhysX in systems with ATI cards present.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr


If you "want" PhysX capability in your system, You'll need at least one Nvidia GPU. AMD made a choice. They will not support PhysX technology. Nvidia put all the capital, research, any and all resources into PhysX technology. Work with many game developers to further the tech. And always working to improve this tech. Why should AMD, with it's negative stance towards PhysX technology, benefit from Nvidia's labors by being able to run PhysX with a dedicated Nvidia GPU? That was a free ride for an unsupportive AMD.
If AMD had supported PhysX from the beginning, rest assured PhysX would have already become the standard. I believe it still will, but just take longer without AMD's support. AMD opted to hold back the tech industry with this move for their own business reasons. Similar to Nvidia's business reasons for locking out PhysX in systems with ATI cards present.

Given that Nvidia seems to have arbitrary and changeable rules about which of its own cards it will allow to work with PhysX why do you think it would have been a good idea for ATI to get involved?

Do you think Nvidia would have shown more respect to ATI users than its own ones?

 

[Dribble]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
Given that Nvidia seems to have arbitrary and changeable rules about which of its own cards it will allow to work with PhysX why do you think it would have been a good idea for ATI to get involved?

Do you think Nvidia would have shown more respect to ATI users than its own ones?

As I understand it they just upped the min spec?

Batman does look like a second dawn for physx, not just because it's a big game but because it looks like it's almost showing off a TWIMTBP physx toolkit. i.e. Nvidia is averaging TWIMTBP so developers using it can take their game and give it some standard easily addable physx graphical niceties. Expect to see lots of similar looking effects to batman in new games. i.e. stuff blowing around (paper in batman, leaves in outdoor game, etc), stuff blowing up with bigger sparks, fancy volumetric fog and smoke, etc.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: Dribble

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
Given that Nvidia seems to have arbitrary and changeable rules about which of its own cards it will allow to work with PhysX why do you think it would have been a good idea for ATI to get involved?

Do you think Nvidia would have shown more respect to ATI users than its own ones?

As I understand it they just upped the min spec?

Batman does look like a second dawn for physx, not just because it's a big game but because it looks like it's almost showing off a TWIMTBP physx toolkit. i.e. Nvidia is averaging TWIMTBP so developers using it can take their game and give it some standard easily addable physx graphical niceties. Expect to see lots of similar looking effects to batman in new games. i.e. stuff blowing around (paper in batman, leaves in outdoor game, etc), stuff blowing up with bigger sparks, fancy volumetric fog and smoke, etc.

Just out of interest does the PC version of Batman have extra effects over the Xbox/PS3?

 

[Dribble]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: Dribble

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
Given that Nvidia seems to have arbitrary and changeable rules about which of its own cards it will allow to work with PhysX why do you think it would have been a good idea for ATI to get involved?

Do you think Nvidia would have shown more respect to ATI users than its own ones?

As I understand it they just upped the min spec?

Batman does look like a second dawn for physx, not just because it's a big game but because it looks like it's almost showing off a TWIMTBP physx toolkit. i.e. Nvidia is averaging TWIMTBP so developers using it can take their game and give it some standard easily addable physx graphical niceties. Expect to see lots of similar looking effects to batman in new games. i.e. stuff blowing around (paper in batman, leaves in outdoor game, etc), stuff blowing up with bigger sparks, fancy volumetric fog and smoke, etc.

Just out of interest does the PC version of Batman have extra effects over the Xbox/PS3?

PC version isn't out yet. The demo looks like the standard higher textures/res's but same underlying game that you get from a PC port. Obviously physx and 3d are extra.

Thinking about my previous comment more, it's not all games, it's unreal engine 3 games. Epic put software and hardware physx support in that from the start. I bet nvidia developed, or at least got rights for all the physx code which gives the fancy effects in mirrors edge. They have then been extending it, and offering this to any and all TWIMTBP developers who they can convince to use it.

Being as it's a standard engine for example if some game wants draping tear-able cloth flags they just take nvidia's UE3 tear-able cloth flag object and in no time at all they too can have draping tear-able cloth flags hanging from the ceiling in their game.

Hence the sudden rash of physx games appearing, all showing off a very similar bunch of effects.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: Keysplayr


If you "want" PhysX capability in your system, You'll need at least one Nvidia GPU. AMD made a choice. They will not support PhysX technology. Nvidia put all the capital, research, any and all resources into PhysX technology. Work with many game developers to further the tech. And always working to improve this tech. Why should AMD, with it's negative stance towards PhysX technology, benefit from Nvidia's labors by being able to run PhysX with a dedicated Nvidia GPU? That was a free ride for an unsupportive AMD.
If AMD had supported PhysX from the beginning, rest assured PhysX would have already become the standard. I believe it still will, but just take longer without AMD's support. AMD opted to hold back the tech industry with this move for their own business reasons. Similar to Nvidia's business reasons for locking out PhysX in systems with ATI cards present.

Given that Nvidia seems to have arbitrary and changeable rules about which of its own cards it will allow to work with PhysX why do you think it would have been a good idea for ATI to get involved?

Do you think Nvidia would have shown more respect to ATI users than its own ones?

Why would you think it "arbitrary"? You mean the change of minimum GPU specs in order to run PhysX to 32 shaders and 256MB? That is exactly in line with my recent PhysX testing and a correct assessment of required GPU power. Nothing arbitrary about that.

And why do you think that had anything to do with ATI? If ATI HAD gotten involved way back when, I'm sure that right now, there would be a minimum spec to run PhysX for their cards as well. And you can be damn sure there wouldn't be a lock out.

Should Nvidia show "more" respect to ATI users than it's own users? This soap opera you see playing out is a result of ATI denying, or could not provide it's own users of this technology.
Could have been several reasons why this is. Their "political stance" wouldn't let them. They actually "couldn't" get PhysX to run on their hardware behind closed doors, and opted to publicly state that Havok will be the way they wish to go. Not out of choice. Who knows?
Could be many other reasons.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Dribble

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: Dribble

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
Given that Nvidia seems to have arbitrary and changeable rules about which of its own cards it will allow to work with PhysX why do you think it would have been a good idea for ATI to get involved?

Do you think Nvidia would have shown more respect to ATI users than its own ones?

As I understand it they just upped the min spec?

Batman does look like a second dawn for physx, not just because it's a big game but because it looks like it's almost showing off a TWIMTBP physx toolkit. i.e. Nvidia is averaging TWIMTBP so developers using it can take their game and give it some standard easily addable physx graphical niceties. Expect to see lots of similar looking effects to batman in new games. i.e. stuff blowing around (paper in batman, leaves in outdoor game, etc), stuff blowing up with bigger sparks, fancy volumetric fog and smoke, etc.

Just out of interest does the PC version of Batman have extra effects over the Xbox/PS3?

PC version isn't out yet. The demo looks like the standard higher textures/res's but same underlying game that you get from a PC port. Obviously physx and 3d are extra.

Thinking about my previous comment more, it's not all games, it's unreal engine 3 games. Epic put software and hardware physx support in that from the start. I bet nvidia developed, or at least got rights for all the physx code which gives the fancy effects in mirrors edge. They have then been extending it, and offering this to any and all TWIMTBP developers who they can convince to use it.

Being as it's a standard engine for example if some game wants draping tear-able cloth flags they just take nvidia's UE3 tear-able cloth flag object and in no time at all they too can have draping tear-able cloth flags hanging from the ceiling in their game.

Hence the sudden rash of physx games appearing, all showing off a very similar bunch of effects.

Disagree. Explain the new smoke effects in Batman. I've never seen another game that does this. Character walks through smoke, and the smoke swirls around him and actually creates eddies behind him in the charaters wake. You will see newer, more innovative uses of PhsyX as time goes on and new games are released. Especially with more powerful hardware with higher capabilities on the immediate horizon.