Photography Class vs The Internet

[dmw16]

About a year ago I bought a Nikon D60 and a few lenses (50mm fixed and an 18-55mm). I have taken casual photos but nothing serious.

However, I'd like to start learning to "take photos" rather than just pictures.

I've considered classes at local schools and such, but they either seem very basic (what the camera mods are, etc) or way too advanced. They also run between $200-$500.

So here is my question to the photographers of anandtech...can I develop into a decent amateur photographer by reading web resources and posting my work for critique here (and other places)?

Thanks.

 

[magomago]

internet > class

 

[dmw16]

Could you elaborate? Does my plan of reading resources like the ones in the sticky then posting my shots make sense?

 

[bobdole369]

Purchase and read teh book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson.

http://www.amazon.com/Understa...-Updated/dp/0817463003

That $20 or whatever is the best money you'll spend. Once you understand "how" to take the picture everytime, you'll stop fighting the camera and let your creative process take over.

I've always been a big believer in that you cannot teach art. Creativity is inborn and no matter how much I spend I realize I'll never be an artist. That goes along with photography, you can teach someone the how's, but you can't teach them what looks good.

As for asking for critiques and whatnot - its not a bad idea, but you really need to think about what you are asking of others. You won't always get a reply, and you sure won't always like what you hear.

 

[magomago]

forums is one key method. go also and look at dpreview forums. Iono about all the forums, but pentax slr forum generally has lots of photos to see. Olympus does as well. Lighting forum doesn't have much discussion about avaiblie light photographs...but lots of good critique for flashes and people who are more brutally honest about photos. For viewing photos, it seems that AT camera forums is more about technology discussion than actual photography. although feel free to post pics here so people can review it

also, go online and search for tutorials to learn more. cambridge in color, planet neil, strobist, luminous landscape, etc and others I can't remember. This is how I learned all the basiscs of photography and then some. I think its much better than a class. I tried taking a class maybe 1 year ago and was bored to death because it was too basic --> and it was an 'advanced' class.

You know, I recently sent an email to a friend and I'll post it here for you:

this is the stuff I used - i also did a lot more searchign online. if i

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/ has a lot of great stuff
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/ as well
www.planetneil.com/ (i would link specific stuff there, but its blocked at work for being a social networking website. great stuff for flash)
http://strobist.blogspot.com/ (great stuff for off camera flashes (meaning you buy a wireless transmitter from your flash and the actual flash is not placed in front of the camera, but at an angle typically0


so as you read some of these article you need to keep these concepts in mind: ISO, Aperature, Shutter speed. I won't describe them, becuase its your job to do the reading. But determing the photographic exposure (which is measured in eV) is really a balance between these 3. Pay attention to how Aperature controls DOF (depth of focus).


http://www.luminous-landscape....nding-histograms.shtml teaches you about histograms

http://www.luminous-landscape....nding-series/dof.shtml depth of field

http://www.luminous-landscape....-series/dslr-mag.shtml under crop factor

http://www.luminous-landscape....derstandexposure.shtml UNDERSTANDING THIS IS IMPORTANT. IF you can't grab this concept here, you are on the path of failboat.


http://www.cambridgeincolour.c...als/camera-sensors.htm digital cameras - basic sensor theory

http://www.cambridgeincolour.c...ls/camera-metering.htm more exposure...this is REALLLY important. Exposure is a huge part of taking a good picture, so you will get several articles on this

http://www.cambridgeincolour.c...orials/histograms1.htm more histogram information. Lots of good stuff. If you can take a photo, look at the histogram, and adjust your exposure as you want it...then you relaly have a double whammy is simple getting the actual photos. They may be composed horribly, or the style may not be there, but getting a well exposed picture and learning how to tweak exposure according ot the histogram is an invaluable skill

http://www.cambridgeincolour.c...ials/white-balance.htm white balance basics

http://www.cambridgeincolour.c...ials/dynamic-range.htm a KEY article on DR. Even I should read it. I know what it is, and how to use it...but my explanation can get spotty.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.c...camera-sensor-size.htm more sensor theory. Its good to know because things 'make sense'

CIC really has a lot of good tutorials that you need to exhaust


http://www.photonhead.com/simcam/shutteraperture.php a great java simulator of how apertaure and shutter affect eachothert
http://www.photonhead.com/begi...shutterandaperture.php
http://www.photographyjam.com/...speed-aperture-and-iso
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture (pay attention to the aperture area section)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_length
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutter_speed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_(photography)

IIRC, the sticky has good links/information in it as well. This stuff should get you started, as well as give you an idea of what you should be searching for. as you read you probably won't understand it the first time. Just keep reading, it comes together...and then when you go through it all a second time it will all click much better. The goal is that by the end of it all, you will immediately understand what happens if with a given expsoure you drop the iso, double the iso and open up by a stop. You should know what it does for sharpness (as a general, looser than a village whore, rule) as you open up, what it does for DOF, what happens to noise, why - if you plan to do PP - you should try to expose as far to the right on the histogram as possible, what the histogram is and what information it shows, etc. etc. etc.

But like the guy above me stated...simply getting the exposure down is like 50% of photograhy lol. And here is a little hint: there is no real 'proper' exposure that you can nail down and decide. it is all really artistic. just b/c you have some blown highlights doesn't mean its the end of the world. hell you could blow a lot of highlights and have a great photo. it really depends on the mood...although if you take a snapshot of your cousin and its clearly too dark...everyone will say its underexposed

 

[dmw16]

Thanks. I'll pick up the book and start reading the links.

I want to do motorsports photography eventually, so maybe the class money would be better spent on a telephoto and a monopod.

And leave my cousin out of it

 

[magomago]

If you want to do motorsports photography, I wouldn't THINK you need the best lens out there. Then again I'm thinking a paved race track during the day with plenty of light. and high shutter speeds. A mono pod sounds like a good idea....and perhaps learning how to pano is another good idea (which i don't think is easy at all... i'm amazed when people come out with photos that are nearly razor sharp. Even after PP its impressive)

 

[dmw16]

Yeah, I would figure on outdoors in good light for motorsports stuff.

I'd like to learn the basics of photography before diving into anything serious, but you are probably right that I wouldn't need the most expensive lens out there.

Yeah, some pan shots are awesome. I assume practice, practice, practice.

 

[Billb2]

Look with both eyes, one though the camera and one around it.
Takes some practice to get you brain to see two things at the same time.
It makes composition of fast moving objects (racecars?) a lot easier.

 

[idiotekniQues]

these are definitely for the beginner, although in the workshops we get much more advanced than this, but perhaps a bit here or there may hit the spot. 12 videos at the link below:

http://www.digitaldaysphoto.com/photo_tips.html

 

[oogabooga]

Understanding exposure is a good book to have. It's the first book I read and it was a great starting resource. Well worth the money.

 

[Fardringle]

I say do both: study as much as you can online and in books, and take a hands-on photography class. But don't waste your money on the $200+ classes at a community college or university. Look around for continuing education classes through your public school district. Around here (Salt Lake City, Utah), a 6 week "advanced" photography course taught by a pro photographer costs $55 through the school district, or $350 at the community college. It's not hard to choose when it's the same person teaching both classes..

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Well, I would say that having both is the best way to go about it. Formal education provides structure and a logical flow of learning. It can also teach you the proper way to think through a shot - not all of us are born artists that just "get" it. An artist doesn't just know what looks good, but knows how to GET things that look good. These techniques can most easily be learned in a hands-on class setting because it forces you to practice the technique there and now, gives you the resources to do so, and gets you thinking about things in a certain way. If you simply read about the technique on a website, would you honestly go out right there, grab a model from the street or what have you, and try it? Probably not. There's a lot of just "winging it" with non-class learning.

I've never taken a photography class, but I want to. There are things that traditional photography classes won't teach you, at least not until the very advanced classes, but they can provide a solid foundation to build off of. They can also save you lots of time just fiddling with things like lighting - you're messing around trying to figure out the best way to light something and how light interacts with various surfaces, various angles, various distances, various colors, etc. And an instructor could just TELL you exactly how these work.

Classes can also teach you how to make money from photography, like the proper way to go about it. What certificates you need to make yourself marketable. How to properly build a portfolio and market yourself. What the law is in terms of copyright (lectured from a practicing copyright lawyer rather than fellow internet photogs who may or may not be right).

These types of classes would probably have to be taken at a dedicated art college, not some podunk general education community college.

 

[Munky]

Don't waste your money on photo classes. There are plenty of resources online to teach you both the artistic and technical aspects of photography. Reading some books helps also, I currently have these two:

Within the Frame

Creative Nature and Outdoor Photography

This guy has a bunch of useful resources on his site:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: magomago
internet > class

Money wise yes. Socially, a classroom is where it is at. You can get a lot out of even a basic photography class by having all your peers sit in a room and dissect your photography. All by taking a lighting class you get hands on with equipment (and room) you otherwise would have to beg, borrow, and or steal to use.

Of course I am biased... I get free college classes through work. I probably would not chunk down $300 for a course unless i was real serious about photography.

 

[dmw16]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: magomago
internet > class

Money wise yes. Socially, a classroom is where it is at. You can get a lot out of even a basic photography class by having all your peers sit in a room and dissect your photography. All by taking a lighting class you get hands on with equipment (and room) you otherwise would have to beg, borrow, and or steal to use.

Of course I am biased... I get free college classes through work. I probably would not chunk down $300 for a course unless i was real serious about photography.

If I had it to do over again I'd have taken some photography classes in college (but the engineering curriculum didn't really allow a lot of branching out). My worry is I'll spend $300 and find out the class is just the basics of terminology and camera operation which I either already have learned or could read on the internet.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: dmw16

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: magomago
internet > class

Money wise yes. Socially, a classroom is where it is at. You can get a lot out of even a basic photography class by having all your peers sit in a room and dissect your photography. All by taking a lighting class you get hands on with equipment (and room) you otherwise would have to beg, borrow, and or steal to use.

Of course I am biased... I get free college classes through work. I probably would not chunk down $300 for a course unless i was real serious about photography.

If I had it to do over again I'd have taken some photography classes in college (but the engineering curriculum didn't really allow a lot of branching out). My worry is I'll spend $300 and find out the class is just the basics of terminology and camera operation which I either already have learned or could read on the internet.

Yes, this is what I'm worried about as well. I've thought about going to attend an art college to better round out my knowledge, but only if I can insert myself into an already semi-advanced class. Just thinking of sitting in an intro level class where I probably have an additional 6 years of shooting experience over my peers makes me want to cry.

 

[dmw16]

When all of the course descriptions I've found mention transferring pictures by this crazy thing called a "card reader" I know they aren't for me

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

Originally posted by: dmw16

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: magomago
internet > class

Money wise yes. Socially, a classroom is where it is at. You can get a lot out of even a basic photography class by having all your peers sit in a room and dissect your photography. All by taking a lighting class you get hands on with equipment (and room) you otherwise would have to beg, borrow, and or steal to use.

Of course I am biased... I get free college classes through work. I probably would not chunk down $300 for a course unless i was real serious about photography.

If I had it to do over again I'd have taken some photography classes in college (but the engineering curriculum didn't really allow a lot of branching out). My worry is I'll spend $300 and find out the class is just the basics of terminology and camera operation which I either already have learned or could read on the internet.

Yes, this is what I'm worried about as well. I've thought about going to attend an art college to better round out my knowledge, but only if I can insert myself into an already semi-advanced class. Just thinking of sitting in an intro level class where I probably have an additional 6 years of shooting experience over my peers makes me want to cry.

It depends on the school I suppose. The particular one I attended had an actual visual arts department and offered specific programs for photography. So they had lighting, studios, dark rooms, photoshop classes, you name it. Probably not what the average school would provide so i would look for one that may have visual arts programs.

I owned an SLR for 10+ years and started with a basic photography class. In my case, although I had always been interested in photography, I had never botherd to really understand metering, camera controls, etc. So even the basic course offered a lot of information is a setting that offered a great learning experience.

 

[corkyg]

There are many benefits to either classes or Internet. But, tyhere is also another facet - photo excursions. These can be exotic as well as local and pragmatic. Look for one in your area. Nothing beats face to face disucussion combined with practical work in the field. Example . . . PE

 

[SpotBrainCell]

Noob here.

Good links mogo. Thanks!

OP look up the book "Learning to See Creatively.". Has some good ideas and has helped me.