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Phoenix Threatened by Riots

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1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Meh, I live in Phoenix and I like the illegals. I don't feel threatened by them and often hire them to do some work around my property.
In other words you like cheap labor... as long as it isn't you working on the cheap. That's what started this whole problem.
Who doesn't?
And that's why I'm deadset against illegal aliens. If your too cheap to pay a fair wage then I think we need to adjust our labor supply to only legal workers, Fuck the border states shoving it up everybody else's ass for their own gratifacation.

I live over 1000 miles from the boarder and we have an illegal alien problem here because a bunch of cheap asses like you.
But for cheap asses like him, it's not a problem, it's a benefit. Stop hating.
Hey genius, asking the authorities to enforce the law isn't hating, it's called justice. :p
Somehow I doubt I'll be fined for hiring some random day workers to mow my lawn or trim my trees.
Just keep thinking that way.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Meh, I live in Phoenix and I like the illegals. I don't feel threatened by them and often hire them to do some work around my property.
In other words you like cheap labor... as long as it isn't you working on the cheap. That's what started this whole problem.
Who doesn't?
And that's why I'm deadset against illegal aliens. If your too cheap to pay a fair wage then I think we need to adjust our labor supply to only legal workers, Fuck the border states shoving it up everybody else's ass for their own gratifacation.

I live over 1000 miles from the boarder and we have an illegal alien problem here because a bunch of cheap asses like you.
But for cheap asses like him, it's not a problem, it's a benefit. Stop hating.
Hey genius, asking the authorities to enforce the law isn't hating, it's called justice. :p
The question is how heavily you enforce the law. If every crime were a capital offense, there would be almost no crime.

 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,016
308
126
I'm still wondering how deporting someone that comes into this country illegally is too harsh of a punishment. They are not supposed to be here so we make them leave, how is that even punishment at all?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Meh, I live in Phoenix and I like the illegals. I don't feel threatened by them and often hire them to do some work around my property.
In other words you like cheap labor... as long as it isn't you working on the cheap. That's what started this whole problem.
Who doesn't?
And that's why I'm deadset against illegal aliens. If your too cheap to pay a fair wage then I think we need to adjust our labor supply to only legal workers, Fuck the border states shoving it up everybody else's ass for their own gratifacation.

I live over 1000 miles from the boarder and we have an illegal alien problem here because a bunch of cheap asses like you.
But for cheap asses like him, it's not a problem, it's a benefit. Stop hating.
Hey genius, asking the authorities to enforce the law isn't hating, it's called justice. :p
The question is how heavily you enforce the law. If every crime were a capital offense, there would be almost no crime.
That's an easy one. How "heavily" you enforce the law depends upon the damage breaking said law does to society.

In a previous post, you pointed out that

IT does not matter where the population growth comes from, it needs to be limited. The economist just recently ran an article on the "END of Cheap Food". Be afraid
So by your own admission illegal immigrants pose a great threat to our society because the more illegals that come in the greater restrictions that must be placed on tax paying American citizens by means of limiting population growth. Less illegal immigrants = less population growth and therefore less restrictions that would be required for tax paying American citizens.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Stoneburner

If I break into your house, would making me leave be too harsh a punishment? What should my punishment be?
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Meh, I live in Phoenix and I like the illegals. I don't feel threatened by them and often hire them to do some work around my property.
In other words you like cheap labor... as long as it isn't you working on the cheap. That's what started this whole problem.
Who doesn't?
And that's why I'm deadset against illegal aliens. If your too cheap to pay a fair wage then I think we need to adjust our labor supply to only legal workers, Fuck the border states shoving it up everybody else's ass for their own gratifacation.

I live over 1000 miles from the boarder and we have an illegal alien problem here because a bunch of cheap asses like you.
But for cheap asses like him, it's not a problem, it's a benefit. Stop hating.
Hey genius, asking the authorities to enforce the law isn't hating, it's called justice. :p
The question is how heavily you enforce the law. If every crime were a capital offense, there would be almost no crime.
That's an easy one. How "heavily" you enforce the law depends upon the damage breaking said law does to society.

In a previous post, you pointed out that

IT does not matter where the population growth comes from, it needs to be limited. The economist just recently ran an article on the "END of Cheap Food". Be afraid
So by your own admission illegal immigrants pose a great threat to our society because the more illegals that come in the greater restrictions that must be placed on tax paying American citizens by means of limiting population growth. Less illegal immigrants = less population growth and therefore less restrictions that would be required for tax paying American citizens.
I was not being serious. My point was, illegal immigration and overbreeding pose the exact same threat.

And you can't use non-proximate harm to justify the punishment. Our law system is based on Beccaria for the most part and he would have shuddered at such thinking. Of course, you have to still show there is harm in the first place and whether such harm is mitigated. All the claims of economic harm have been largely bunk.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
All the claims of economic harm have been largely bunk.
And you know that because your an expert on bunk?

Illegal Immigration is a Crime

Illegal Immigration Is Not A Victimless Crime

Apologists for illegal immigration try to paint it as a victimless crime, but the fact is that illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population ? the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not begin to cover the cost of services received by them. The quality of education, health care and other services for Americans are undermined by the needs of endless numbers of poor, unskilled illegal entrants.

Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants desperate for any job unfairly depresses the wages and working conditions offered to American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,016
308
126
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Stoneburner

If I break into your house, would making me leave be too harsh a punishment? What should my punishment be?
I've basically made that same point twice. Stoneburner keeps ignoring me and then goes on a rant about people not answering his questions.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Stoneburner

If I break into your house, would making me leave be too harsh a punishment? What should my punishment be?
I've basically made that same point twice. Stoneburner keeps ignoring me and then goes on a rant about people not answering his questions.
If you break into my house because, let's say, somebody is trying to kill you and you want to escape, I wouldn't mind. If somebody broke into my house to kill me, that's a different story. Since you are invoking this metaphor, why aren't you looking at the intent of the "offending" party here?

Because you're not very christian.

Besides, what if there was a rule that anybody born in your house has a right to be in that house? Your children would never leave :) I guess the metaphor fails.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
All the claims of economic harm have been largely bunk.
And you know that because your an expert on bunk?

Illegal Immigration is a Crime

Illegal Immigration Is Not A Victimless Crime

Apologists for illegal immigration try to paint it as a victimless crime, but the fact is that illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population ? the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not begin to cover the cost of services received by them. The quality of education, health care and other services for Americans are undermined by the needs of endless numbers of poor, unskilled illegal entrants.

Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants desperate for any job unfairly depresses the wages and working conditions offered to American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.

Besides the fact I don't trust those studies, they cut both ways. You realize they are an equally strong argument for making all immigrants LEGAL?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Originally posted by: Stoneburner


I was not being serious. My point was, illegal immigration and overbreeding pose the exact same threat.
Now we are getting somewhere. We both agree that illegal immigration is a threat. Once we fix that problem we can take a look at if we are "overbreeding". If we are we can discuss measures to mitigate that threat as well.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
All the claims of economic harm have been largely bunk.
And you know that because your an expert on bunk?

Illegal Immigration is a Crime

Illegal Immigration Is Not A Victimless Crime

Apologists for illegal immigration try to paint it as a victimless crime, but the fact is that illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population ? the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not begin to cover the cost of services received by them. The quality of education, health care and other services for Americans are undermined by the needs of endless numbers of poor, unskilled illegal entrants.

Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants desperate for any job unfairly depresses the wages and working conditions offered to American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.

Besides the fact I don't trust those studies, they cut both ways. You realize they are an equally strong argument for making all immigrants LEGAL?
What about the other hundred million that want in? Are you really advocating giving them all a damn good reason (above what we already do) to illegally enter the country?
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Darwin, I'm saying that they pose the exact same threat, that only implies a level of threat relative to the other, not a level of threat in general.

And if there are a 100 million able bodied people working legally, paying taxes, increasing productivity, maybe we can compete with china's 1 billion for a longer period of time :)
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Stoneburner

If I break into your house, would making me leave be too harsh a punishment? What should my punishment be?
I've basically made that same point twice. Stoneburner keeps ignoring me and then goes on a rant about people not answering his questions.
If you break into my house because, let's say, somebody is trying to kill you and you want to escape, I wouldn't mind. If somebody broke into my house to kill me, that's a different story. Since you are invoking this metaphor, why aren't you looking at the intent of the "offending" party here?
I'm breaking in because I want to live in your house. You have nice stuff. I'll probably lounge on your couch most of the day and watch TV. I'm going eat whatever you happen to have in the fridge. Don't worry, I'll do your laundry for you now and then and we'll call it even.

Because you're not very christian.
You're right, I'm not a Christian. What's your point, Jesus freak?

Besides, what if there was a rule that anybody born in your house has a right to be in that house? Your children would never leave :) I guess the metaphor fails.
There are laws that cover children and dependency, just as their are laws which cover immigration. Do you have any idea what you're talking about or do you just use a dictionary and darts to choose words to type?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Darwin, I'm saying that they pose the exact same threat, that only implies a level of threat relative to the other, not a level of threat in general.

And if there are a 100 million able bodied people working legally, paying taxes, increasing productivity, maybe we can compete with china's 1 billion for a longer period of time :)
Do you realize that many of the coporations that moved jobs from the USA to Mexico for their cheap labor have now moved those jobs to China for their even cheaper labor?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Originally posted by: Stoneburner

And if there are a 100 million able bodied people working legally, paying taxes, increasing productivity, maybe we can compete with china's 1 billion for a longer period of time :)
Therein lies the problem. Sure they may be able bodied people but they will keep wages at rock bottom (even if you make them all legal) so they will pay very minimal taxes if any at all. If immigrants get EITC then a very large portion of them might get MORE money back then they actually pay in.

So... You have a hundred million, plus whoever is still here and still coming, paying minimal taxes but they are using public services. Schools, health care, police/fire services, housing assistance, food stamps, etc...

We are seeing illegal immigrants putting strains on those services already and you want to throw another 100 million into the mix? That is simply absurd.

Then again, since your worried about "competing with China" perhaps you are advocating giving those 100 million people the same living conditions/services as China gives their unskilled workers?
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
jethus chritht, 100 million? Didn't the last census record a national population of less than 300 million? That mean there's a 33.3% chance I'm an illegal alien!
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,553
1,150
126
If you come the the US without proper documentations or permission, you are breaking the law. PERIOD.

Now you have the nerve to use the threat of riots? Call in the National Guards and shoot them like dogs.

<<<---------- FIRST GENERATION of LEGAL immigrant.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,294
0
76
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
jethus chritht, 100 million? Didn't the last census record a national population of less than 300 million? That mean there's a 33.3% chance I'm an illegal alien!
Most figures for illegal aliens run about 15 million.

There have been more veiled threats and nonsensical soundbites from the protesters at Pruitt's furniture store. They talk about human rights and being able to migrate and work with dignity. Wow... that's a great argument. National borders? Laws? Responsibility? Accountability? What are those?

Their other angle is the racism charge... another dumbass argument. That's sure to get people on their side. "If you don't support us then you're racist."

I don't know of many people or articles that demand shutting off immigration. I don't know of many protests going on outside immigration offices demanding a stop to immigration. For the most part Americans love immigration and immigrants love America. Immigration has to take place in a regulated, lawful manner: That's it.

These retards are really shooting themselves in the foot. They have been emboldened for some reason and now they're starting to reap the backlash... and it's just the tip of the iceberg.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Stoneburner

And if there are a 100 million able bodied people working legally, paying taxes, increasing productivity, maybe we can compete with china's 1 billion for a longer period of time :)
Therein lies the problem. Sure they may be able bodied people but they will keep wages at rock bottom (even if you make them all legal) so they will pay very minimal taxes if any at all. If immigrants get EITC then a very large portion of them might get MORE money back then they actually pay in.

So... You have a hundred million, plus whoever is still here and still coming, paying minimal taxes but they are using public services. Schools, health care, police/fire services, housing assistance, food stamps, etc...

We are seeing illegal immigrants putting strains on those services already and you want to throw another 100 million into the mix? That is simply absurd.

Then again, since your worried about "competing with China" perhaps you are advocating giving those 100 million people the same living conditions/services as China gives their unskilled workers?
Now you are being nonsensical. I ask you again, if you are so afraid of illegal immigrants shouldn't you be afraid of overbreeding for the same reason? And if these people are no longer ILLEGAL and they are fully incorporated into the american system, wouldn't they be no different than other americans? Wouldn't they be providing more than "minimal" benefit to the economy? One of the anti immigration links in here invoked the fact illegal immigrants kill regular americans whose lost wages represent lost productivity. So if each american represents productivity, why not have more americans?
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: jjzelinski
jethus chritht, 100 million? Didn't the last census record a national population of less than 300 million? That mean there's a 33.3% chance I'm an illegal alien!
Most figures for illegal aliens run about 15 million.

There have been more veiled threats and nonsensical soundbites from the protesters at Pruitt's furniture store. They talk about human rights and being able to migrate and work with dignity. Wow... that's a great argument. National borders? Laws? Responsibility? Accountability? What are those?

Their other angle is the racism charge... another dumbass argument. That's sure to get people on their side. "If you don't support us then you're racist."

I don't know of many people or articles that demand shutting off immigration. I don't know of many protests going on outside immigration offices demanding a stop to immigration. For the most part Americans love immigration and immigrants love America. Immigration has to take place in a regulated, lawful manner: That's it.

These retards are really shooting themselves in the foot. They have been emboldened for some reason and now they're starting to reap the backlash... and it's just the tip of the iceberg.
I agree for the most part on your accounts, I just wonder how much of an issue this really is. I realize to folks who live along the border it's huge, and it's increasingly becoming a nuisance to folks up to a thousand miles from the border, but past the nuisance aspect what's the big deal? If there ever was a domino effect, the anti-immigration effect on the agricultural industry would be one. I find it extremely hard to believe you're going to find enough Americans to work for the "wage" rates our agricultural industry have matured around.

So what's the big deal? Schools? 9 times out of 10 the children of illegals are going to get stuck in shitty, underfunded shcools anyhow so middle-america's little johnny won't have much of an excuse why his grades suck there. Nor will we have much of an excuse why we're bitching so much about being over taxed when we're not even in their districts.

Security? AS long as we can differentiate people of middle-eastern descent from hispanics we should be good to go.

Now I'm going to stop right here and suggest that the biggest issue we have with illegal mexican immigrants is the attitude; they're not grateful enough to be piggy backing off our goodgraces. Am I way off with this one?
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,294
0
76
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Stoneburner

And if there are a 100 million able bodied people working legally, paying taxes, increasing productivity, maybe we can compete with china's 1 billion for a longer period of time :)
Therein lies the problem. Sure they may be able bodied people but they will keep wages at rock bottom (even if you make them all legal) so they will pay very minimal taxes if any at all. If immigrants get EITC then a very large portion of them might get MORE money back then they actually pay in.

So... You have a hundred million, plus whoever is still here and still coming, paying minimal taxes but they are using public services. Schools, health care, police/fire services, housing assistance, food stamps, etc...

We are seeing illegal immigrants putting strains on those services already and you want to throw another 100 million into the mix? That is simply absurd.

Then again, since your worried about "competing with China" perhaps you are advocating giving those 100 million people the same living conditions/services as China gives their unskilled workers?
Now you are being nonsensical. I ask you again, if you are so afraid of illegal immigrants shouldn't you be afraid of overbreeding for the same reason? And if these people are no longer ILLEGAL and they are fully incorporated into the american system, wouldn't they be no different than other americans? Wouldn't they be providing more than "minimal" benefit to the economy? One of the anti immigration links in here invoked the fact illegal immigrants kill regular americans whose lost wages represent lost productivity. So if each american represents productivity, why not have more americans?
I do not fear overbreeding (and I do not fear illegal aliens) and my position has nothing to do with how many people there are in the US. So forget that line of thinking. I could pretty much care less if there's 250, 300, or 350 million citizens.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,779
3,306
126
Is it a matter of fear, or is it a matter of what we want?

I want this nation to retain its English language Judeo-Christian heritage, I want it not to be split up and divided, I want the state I grew up in to be recognizable as the United States, and I want all workers in our land to be treated fairly and decently ? there should absolutely be no guest worker to abuse. I want every job to be a job Americans will do.

I also don?t want them rioting and assuming complete control over localities in our land.

Perhaps these desires are based on a fear, yet is it not a rational problem we face? I do not view this as wanting action based on irrationality, but instead of what will come to pass if the current trend continues unstopped. It must be stopped, though I don?t see nearly enough outrage necessary to change our course and our destination as a deeply divided, foreign values orientated and impoverished nation.
 

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