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Phoenix Threatened by Riots

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Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
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Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
they should expect to be treated as they would treat illegals in their own country and quit whining like a bucnh of little babies.
Why? How do you come to this conclusion?

I'd rather have an intelligent illegal person in this country rather than somebody like yourself.
I'd rather have an intelligent, educated, English speaking, LEGAL immigrant then somebody like yourself. :p
Well, what will you do when stupidity is declared illegal?
Turn you in? :lips:
What if what they did was not illegal? What if people could freely just move to the U.S without restriction? I wonder if you'd still have a problem with mexicans and others.
Exactly right. When I can move to Mexico and have the same rights as I have here then it's a whole deifferent scenario. That's not the way it is and letting Mexicans move to the US unfettered isn't going to change that either, so your point is??
The focus on the "illegal" aspect of this is disingenuous. You are judging the crime's severity and I'm saying the crime is not too severe.
It's not just the FACT that what they're doing is illegal although that's all the reason one needs to be against it. They drive down the legal residents wages, place additional burdens on the taxpayers, and send their money back to Mexico, where they will have the option to go when they retire and they will be able to retire on a lot less money then I can.

I notice most of these people don't seem to care if they get to be American citizens. Why is that?

If you don't come up wih a valid argument I'm done wasting my time discussing this with you. I don't owe the illegal people anything because I didn't invite them here, so if they're here illegally then they need to quit their whining and demonstrating for rights that they don't have in this country. As far as I'm concerned, their squatters and need to be kicked out. Too bad, so sad, but that's the way it is.

I judge people based on merit rather than place of birth. As for valid arguments, I don't even know what your position is despite my repeated requests for clarification. All i get is a circular argument , i.e., they are illegal because they are illegal. Then you throw in some non sequituirs about how mexico treats illegal immigrants.


 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
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LMAO, they are illegal because they are breaking the law and as non-citizens they have no voice in what our law is. I guess that's too hard of a concept for you to understand.

I'm not judging them on their merit, I'm judging them on their respect for OUR LAW!!! DUHHH!!

Merit? Are the only people who have merit from Mexico? What about the rest of the world's coutries who have people standing in line to come here LEGALLY!! You sir are a rascist bigot if that's what your trying to argue.

Now take your psuedo-arguments someplace else because you got nothing. Merit, ROTFLMFAO!!
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
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Where did you glean that I only favor immigration from mexico? Another leap in the dark?

Have you ever broken any state or federal laws? This is the key point you keep missing, probably because you are dense. I'm assuming you have gone 35 in a 25, littered, maybe violated some copyright and other intellectual property laws, and you may have abused narcotic substances. Where is your respect for the law?

<-- awaits more circularity
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Where did you glean that I only favor immigration from mexico? Another leap in the dark?

Have you ever broken any state or federal laws? This is the key point you keep missing, probably because you are dense. I'm assuming you have gone 35 in a 25, littered, maybe violated some copyright and other intellectual property laws, and you may have abused narcotic substances. Where is your respect for the law?

<-- awaits more circularity
Did you forget the "illegal" adjective in front of "immigration" on purpose or do you support illegal immigration from all countries? Our whole conversation has been about "ILLEGAL" immigration so I'm going to assume you favor illegal immigration from the whole world. All I can say is DUHHHHH!! LMAO, the probelm we are having is with our southern boarder, not Afghanistan, or Timbuktu so just keep pretending that your a great humanitarian, you seem to have yourself fooled and I guess that's all that counts to you. :p

Your the one arguing in a circle not addressing any points. If I ever broke a law and got caught I fullu expect to pay the price. I expect the same thing to happen to the people here illegally when they are caught (in Mexico being there illegally is a felony and has a two year sentence). Do you have a problem with that?

:laugh:

 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
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There we go. You fully expect to pay the price. We disagree what the price should be. Thank you for taking so long to get to a simple point.

And you must have been dropped on your head by your illegal immigrant nanny. You are now assuming I mean all immigration when you previously said I only supported illegal mexican immigration?

Finally, now that we are done with the main point, why do you keep bringing up mexico's laws regarding illegal immigration? YOu say illegal immigrants have no say in OUR laws but you keep invoking mexican law WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY. Sure you tried, but that was just another illogical rant from you. Give me something substantive.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
There we go. You fully expect to pay the price. We disagree what the price should be. Thank you for taking so long to get to a simple point.
You don't seem to think there should be any punishment, it should be only on merit, but I think we already have a system set up that judges possible immigrants by merit. Ergo whoever thinks they can just move here because they have "merit" should get sent back home when caught and get in line with everybody else.
And you must have been dropped on your head by your illegal immigrant nanny. You are now assuming I mean all immigration when you previously said I only supported illegal mexican immigration?
Your talking in circles again. The above doesn't make any sense in the context of our argument so far? YOU are the who needs to clarify his position here, not me.
Finally, now that we are done with the main point, why do you keep bringing up mexico's laws regarding illegal immigration? YOu say illegal immigrants have no say in OUR laws but you keep invoking mexican law WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY. Sure you tried, but that was just another illogical rant from you. Give me something substantive.
If you weren't so busy attacking the messenger, insulting me, or trying to put words in my mouth you would see that I clearly stated previously in this post:

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Do you people soil yourself when you see people that don't look like you?
What does that have to do with it?

As far as I can tell that remark is nothing but a back handed attempt at calling people who are against illegal immigration rascist.
Speeding is illegal, I do it all the time. I equate illegal immigration to speeding. You people equate illegal immigration to murder, theft, and sodomy. The question is not how much you hate the illegality of the act but of how highly you rate the illegality.

And sure, you can continue soiling yourselves because a fellow human being wants a decent life, I won't call you racist. I promise :)
Your not a judge so it doesn't mean a hill of beans if you think illegal immigration is the same as speeding. If you want to get smart ass about it then I think we should treat the illegal immigrants the same as their country of origin treats it's illegal immigrants. How highly does Mexico rate that illegalality?

Now argue with that one. :p
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
What if what they did was not illegal? What if people could freely just move to the U.S without restriction?
That would be nice. Then any other country could just empty out its prisons and send these former prisoners, now paragons of society, to their new home in the US.

There are immigration laws for a reason, the principal idea behind them being the controlled flow of foreign persons into society and economic structure. An open, unrestricted border is not just foolish, it is disruptively dangerous.

 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
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1. I said I judge people on merit and that even a non-citizen should be deported for stupidity.

2. I was highlighting your illogical leaps of faiths, which are all you seem to rely on. I'm trying to clear away your non-sequiturs to get to the substance of your position.

3. This is also a quote from you: "You've got some nerve trying to imply people as racist because they're against illegal immigration and then turn around and demand an apology from me because you don't have a case to argue. LOL, your in a tough spot you want the very same people your trying to infer are racisit to feel sorry/take pity for your case. That's why I broght up how Mexico treats it's illegals."

So you clearly were not limiting the invocation as you now claim.

4. What are the current federal rules regarding deportation of illegal aliens?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
1. I said I judge people on merit and that even a non-citizen should be deported for stupidity.
Clearly anybody who thinks that should be the first to go.
2. I was highlighting your illogical leaps of faiths, which are all you seem to rely on. I'm trying to clear away your non-sequiturs to get to the substance of your position.
What leaps of faith, you must mean that whole "rule of law" thingy?? How inconvient for you.
3. This is also a quote from you: "You've got some nerve trying to imply people as racist because they're against illegal immigration and then turn around and demand an apology from me because you don't have a case to argue. LOL, your in a tough spot you want the very same people your trying to infer are racisit to feel sorry/take pity for your case. That's why I broght up how Mexico treats it's illegals."

So you clearly were not limiting the invocation as you now claim.
That's why I brought it up the second time. So??
4. What are the current federal rules regarding deportation of illegal aliens?
Death by firing squad? I personally would put all illegals caught in this country to work building a big fence on the southern border. That should get the idea across.

 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
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So now you've undermined your entire position by favoring actions far more legally severe than the action you rail against. Not to mention the fact, I ASKED YOU WHAT CURRENT LAW IS.

Is English your first language?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
So now you've undermined your entire position by favoring actions far more legally severe than the action you rail against. Not to mention the fact, I ASKED YOU WHAT CURRENT LAW IS.

Is English your first language?
It's my only language and I support English as everybody's official language. If you can't speak it then you should have to pay for your own interpreter. :p

Is deflection your only language? What do you think we should do to illegals? Pat them on the back and give them an "attaboy"? How about you quit pussyfooting around and state your position instead of picking mine apartI know what the law is, deportaion. I also favor toughening the law and the laws for employing an illegal. According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security the following incomplete list are some examples of the most common violations of United States Immigration laws:

Filing false statements on applications or petitions.

Making a false claim that you are a United States citizen.

Making, altering or using counterfeit immigration documents.

Making, altering or using counterfeit documents to support immigration applications or petitions.

Failing to report the arrival of illegal aliens.

assisting or encouraging aliens to come to the United States in violation of the law.

Harboring an illegal alien.

Knowingly employing aliens who do not have permission to work in the United States.

Recruiting or referring for a fee aliens who do not have permission to work in the United States.

Failing to complete and maintain immigration Form I-9 for all new employees, whether citizens or aliens.

Failing to depart the United States when ordered removed (deported).

Entering or attempting to enter the United States at a time or place which is not authorized.

Attempting to enter the United States by misrepresenting (lying about) material facts.

Entering into a marriage to circumvent the immigration laws.

Entering or attempting to enter the United States without permission after having been removed (deported).



Did you know that if an illegal has been deported once the second time they are caught it's a felony?

Per Wikipedia, are you aware the Pew Hispanic Center state that 57% of illegal aliens are of Mexican origin and about 24% are of non-Mexican Latin American origin ( 81% Latinos ). They also report that while the number of legal immigrants (including LPRs, refugees, and asylees) arriving has not varied substantially since the 1980s, the number of illegal aliens has increased dramatically and, since the mid 1990s, has surpassed the number of legal immigrants.

Anybody who cares about this country should be against illegal immigration.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
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Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,014
306
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Why don't you state your position on this instead of talking in circles? 1EZduzits position is perfectly clear and he is 100 percent correct on the issue. You still haven't made a valid argument in favor of your position, whatever that is. Oh, and stop calling everyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration a racist, its pretty ignorant.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Why don't you state your position on this instead of talking in circles? 1EZduzits position is perfectly clear and he is 100 percent correct on the issue. You still haven't made a valid argument in favor of your position, whatever that is. Oh, and stop calling everyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration a racist, its pretty ignorant.
He has an indefensible position. Illegal is illegal and he tries to say it's no worse then a speeding ticket. Apparently he thinks that if you've ever jaywalked you should be deported.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Are you or do you know Marshall Dillion? The reason I ask is it's apparent that you must be from Dodge City. :laugh:
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,943
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I can't believe anybody is even arguing about this article. If a cop pulls you over finds out your an illegal immigrant then he / she should act on that information and deport your ass. There's no gray area here - just because an illegal immigrant managed to find a way into the country doesn't mean they shouldn't be kicked the hell out once the authorities are aware of them.

I can't say, though, that I'm in favor of rounding up all illegal immigrants and deporting them in en mass. First, I think we'd run into some serious privacy issues if our police or INS went around demanding to see people's proof of citizenship. Second, I think we'd create humanitarian disasters in many of the countries that would be receiving these immigrants.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Why don't you state your position on this instead of talking in circles? 1EZduzits position is perfectly clear and he is 100 percent correct on the issue. You still haven't made a valid argument in favor of your position, whatever that is. Oh, and stop calling everyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration a racist, its pretty ignorant.
He has an indefensible position. Illegal is illegal and he tries to say it's no worse then a speeding ticket. Apparently he thinks that if you've ever jaywalked you should be deported.
No, genius, i think the punishment for illegal immigration should be the same as jaywalking. And though your joke is stupid, you can't blame me for dodging your irrelevant nonsense. I don't care for your nonsensical ranting and circular arguments.

And JD50, what is EZ's position? It's that illegals are bad because they are illegal and they are illegal because they are bad. That's not a position is a logical fallacy.

Let me try another avenue. Let's posit you hate illegals because they take american jobs and resources which are too scarce. Shouldn't you also favor limiting the number of children americans can have like the chinese?
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,943
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Why don't you state your position on this instead of talking in circles? 1EZduzits position is perfectly clear and he is 100 percent correct on the issue. You still haven't made a valid argument in favor of your position, whatever that is. Oh, and stop calling everyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration a racist, its pretty ignorant.
He has an indefensible position. Illegal is illegal and he tries to say it's no worse then a speeding ticket. Apparently he thinks that if you've ever jaywalked you should be deported.
No, genius, i think the punishment for illegal immigration should be the same as jaywalking. And though your joke is stupid, you can't blame me for dodging your irrelevant nonsense. I don't care for your nonsensical ranting and circular arguments.

And JD50, what is EZ's position? It's that illegals are bad because they are illegal and they are illegal because they are bad. That's not a position is a logical fallacy.

Let me try another avenue. Let's posit you hate illegals because they take american jobs and resources which are too scarce. Shouldn't you also favor limiting the number of children americans can have like the chinese?
Personally, I'd just much rather see these people seek to immigrant through legal ways - meaning that we still control who does and does not come into the country. Why restrict who comes in? Because, quite frankly, many resources within our country are overstretched as they are, we are facing many, many internal crises that are only made worse by a larger population.

Should we close our borders? No, but we should have a sensible immigration policy in place that takes into account the country's needs, not just the needs of those who seek to live in the United States.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
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76
What we need is a comprehensive population control measure. I'd call it "The Malthusian Project" and any mormon or evangelical freak who has 14 kids (all with single syllable names!) will be summarily beaten, castrated, and imprisoned.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,943
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
What we need is a comprehensive population control measure. I'd call it "The Malthusian Project" and any mormon or evangelical freak who has 14 kids (all with single syllable names!) will be summarily beaten, castrated, and imprisoned.
As much as it clearly pains you, we must make distinctions between citizens of the united states and those who have legally immigrated versus those who are not in our country legally. Ultimately, the US government's purpose is to serve its citizens and those who live legally within its borders.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Why don't you state your position on this instead of talking in circles? 1EZduzits position is perfectly clear and he is 100 percent correct on the issue. You still haven't made a valid argument in favor of your position, whatever that is. Oh, and stop calling everyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration a racist, its pretty ignorant.
He has an indefensible position. Illegal is illegal and he tries to say it's no worse then a speeding ticket. Apparently he thinks that if you've ever jaywalked you should be deported.
No, genius, i think the punishment for illegal immigration should be the same as jaywalking. And though your joke is stupid, you can't blame me for dodging your irrelevant nonsense. I don't care for your nonsensical ranting and circular arguments.

And JD50, what is EZ's position? It's that illegals are bad because they are illegal and they are illegal because they are bad. That's not a position is a logical fallacy.

Let me try another avenue. Let's posit you hate illegals because they take american jobs and resources which are too scarce. Shouldn't you also favor limiting the number of children americans can have like the chinese?
LOL, your as egotisitical as TastesLikeChicken and just like him stringing a good line of BS only takes you so far. Instead of asking questions and attacking the messengers how about some answers? It's a tough problem and your obviously not up to it.
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
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That's impractical. There are some very stupid nutjobs who are american citizens and breeding nonstop. Haven't you seen Idiocracy?

Besides, an illegal couple can just drop a baby on U.S. soil and it'll be a "citizen"
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,493
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Why don't you state your position on this instead of talking in circles? 1EZduzits position is perfectly clear and he is 100 percent correct on the issue. You still haven't made a valid argument in favor of your position, whatever that is. Oh, and stop calling everyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration a racist, its pretty ignorant.
He has an indefensible position. Illegal is illegal and he tries to say it's no worse then a speeding ticket. Apparently he thinks that if you've ever jaywalked you should be deported.
No, genius, i think the punishment for illegal immigration should be the same as jaywalking. And though your joke is stupid, you can't blame me for dodging your irrelevant nonsense. I don't care for your nonsensical ranting and circular arguments.

And JD50, what is EZ's position? It's that illegals are bad because they are illegal and they are illegal because they are bad. That's not a position is a logical fallacy.

Let me try another avenue. Let's posit you hate illegals because they take american jobs and resources which are too scarce. Shouldn't you also favor limiting the number of children americans can have like the chinese?
LOL, your as egotisitical as TastesLikeChicken and just like him stringing a good line of BS only takes you so far. Instead of asking questions and attacking the messengers how about some answers? It's a tough problem and your obviously not up to it.

I'm attacking the messenger? Who are you speaking for? Seems like you're the one puling a TLC and throwing out inapplicable cliches because you fail to understand the question, much less the framework of the discussion.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,014
306
126
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Another non-sequitur/rant that doesn't answer my question. I didn't ask you how the laws were broken but what they were. I will take your answer as NO.

Now, why does caring for this country mean fearing immigrants.
Why don't you state your position on this instead of talking in circles? 1EZduzits position is perfectly clear and he is 100 percent correct on the issue. You still haven't made a valid argument in favor of your position, whatever that is. Oh, and stop calling everyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration a racist, its pretty ignorant.
He has an indefensible position. Illegal is illegal and he tries to say it's no worse then a speeding ticket. Apparently he thinks that if you've ever jaywalked you should be deported.
No, genius, i think the punishment for illegal immigration should be the same as jaywalking. And though your joke is stupid, you can't blame me for dodging your irrelevant nonsense. I don't care for your nonsensical ranting and circular arguments.

And JD50, what is EZ's position? It's that illegals are bad because they are illegal and they are illegal because they are bad. That's not a position is a logical fallacy.

Let me try another avenue. Let's posit you hate illegals because they take american jobs and resources which are too scarce. Shouldn't you also favor limiting the number of children americans can have like the chinese?
Ummm....his position is that they are illegal immigrants because they immigrated illegally. Thats pretty obvious, although it seems that you are having problems understanding the basic concept of entering a country illegally, and that being a bad thing.
 

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