Phoenix Suns to wear 'Los Suns' jerseys to protest Arizona's immigration law.

[OutHouse]

can people come up with situations in which reasonable suspicion would be present?

sure, in fact i heard a sheriff in a AZ county give just such an account the other day on the news. a deputy tried to make a traffic stop and they sped away. the suspect pulls into a driveway and and bolts. inside the Ford Taurus were 8 other people... gee i wonder if they were illegal.

 

[OutHouse]

Do you honestly believe that racial profiling will not be used to determine "reasonable suspicion"?

I do. cops will be under a microscope about this and they will make damn sure that any arrest made under this law will be due to reasonable suspicion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I have really gone back and forth with this law since reading about it, and then actually reading the passages that were already quoted above. My issue lies with the following sentence:

"where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien and is unlawfully present in the United States"

How do you develop reasonable suspicion that a person is an illegal immigrant? I can't really think of any way that won't just end up harassing lots of legal immigrants / natural born citizens.

So I guess my question is: can people come up with situations in which reasonable suspicion would be present? If not, then the law will either be applied contrary to what it is stating (no profiling), or will have no teeth.

If the law just said that they can ask you to prove citizenship at any legal stop, whether there is suspicion of illegal residence or not, then that would be fine (assuming of course that it is applied fairly, which we'd have to at least give the benefit of the doubt for now).

The devil is in the details of enforcement. "reasonable suspicion" is a common standard, and I agree that this will be something that may be abused.

That possibility isn't a certainty though. It's clear that when this is put into effect that everyone and their brother will be looking into it. The MSM will certainly be there for it, and I'll bet $20 American that we'll have a thread here about it.

If it's abused, a judge will strike the law down and lawsuits abound will be seen.

Knowing that I would think that abuse will be strongly discouraged. Will it happen? Certainly. What law isn't abused? The test will be if that's a common thing or an aberration.

 

[spidey07]

Do you honestly believe that racial profiling will not be used to determine "reasonable suspicion"?

Absolutely. The law even forbids it. And I personally support racial profiling, it's a tool that works very well.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I do. cops will be under a microscope about this and they will make damn sure that any arrest made under this law will be due to reasonable suspicion.

I personally don't. Law enforcement officers in Arizona (specifically Maricopa County) have shown that they have no respect for the law itself and will use whatever means necessary to "get the job done".

The example you pointed out in another post is certainly "reasonable suspicion", harassing some non-white guy with out of state plates and a broken tail light (and don't lie and tell me that it won't happen) is not.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The law mimics Federal law. It does not go beyond it. If it added extra requirements of proof over the Feds; then it would be easily shot down.

Reasonable suspicion is if the person is unable to answer questions or produce identification to properly identify themselves; that is presently required by existing laws.

Do you honestly believe that racial profiling will not be used to determine "reasonable suspicion"?

I would suspect that the LEO will bend over to avoid such.

However, if the amount of interaction with people of Hispanic race stays the same you can not call it profiling.

Those that are worried abouit racial profiling are also the ones that want it to happen to justify leaving the ILLEGALS alone. They do not care about the Legals.

 

[HumblePie]

Do you honestly believe that racial profiling will not be used to determine "reasonable suspicion"?

Reasonable suspicion is one such as someone not speaking English such as only French, or Spanish, or Russian, or whatever. Language is not racial.

Another is a traffic stop. Someone gets pulled over for speeding. They are required to present a drivers license and insurance proof. Failure to have those, leads to suspicion of being an illegal immigrant. At which point the officer can also ask for proof of that. There are plenty of ways to obtain reasonable suspicion without racial profiling. Sure it is easier to use racial profiling, but the law states it can not be done. So lawful ways must be used.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I would suspect that the LEO will bend over to avoid such.

However, if the amount of interaction with people of Hispanic race stays the same you can not call it profiling.

Those that are worried abouit racial profiling are also the ones that want it to happen to justify leaving the ILLEGALS alone. They do not care about the Legals.

No, I care more about US citizens and legal immigrants being harassed needlessly by LEOs looking for Illegals.

 

[xj0hnx]

I would suspect that the LEO will bend over to avoid such.

However, if the amount of interaction with people of Hispanic race stays the same you can not call it profiling.

Those that are worried abouit racial profiling are also the ones that want it to happen to justify leaving the ILLEGALS alone. They do not care about the Legals.

The other thing that makes this just a ridiculous knee jerk BS is how many Hispanics work in law enforcement, everything from local police to ICE. The way the loonies are carrying on you'd think that law enforcement was comprised only of whites.

 

[spidey07]

No, I care more about US citizens and legal immigrants being harassed needlessly by LEOs looking for Illegals.

There will be no more harassment than there is today. That's the point. How often are you really stopped by police? Just like before the law and just like after they'll ask to see your ID. But after the law they can actually DO SOMETHING about illegals instead of letting them go.

 

[nick1985]

BTW-I'd like to know where you pulled that statistic out of.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010...w-worrisome-for-Democrats/UPI-84241273077057/

And thats a New York Times poll.


The majority agree with the law.

 

[Kanalua]

Good for the Suns!

Of course fans should then be able to show up at the US Airways Center tomorrow without a ticket and be allowed in for free, right?

When stadium personnel ask fans for a ticket tell fans should tell them no, why should fans have to produce a ticket? Then fans should do all they can to get into the US Airways Center to see the game without worry of any repercussions or having to show proof of having a valid ticket to view the game in the Arena...

 

[blackangst1]

Really? I find that hard to believe...

Since you quoted that its illegal for the feds to conduct investigation based on race, you obviously think AZ LEO can. Please quote the part of the law that says this. And in return, I will quote where it specifically says it cant.

Youre a tool.

 

[blackangst1]

Do you honestly believe that racial profiling will not be used to determine "reasonable suspicion"?

Given the attention Sheriff Joe has gotten over the last 5 years for his enforcement of laws already on the books, AZ is under a microscope (none of the over 2000 lawsuits have ever stuck BTW). So No, I dont believe it. Why would a state so saturated with primarily latinos profile against them anyway? What trend in AZ law enforcement have you seen that makes you think they will profile? Or are you pulling shit out of your ass?

 

[Jaskalas]

Knowing that I would think that abuse will be strongly discouraged. Will it happen? Certainly. What law isn't abused? The test will be if that's a common thing or an aberration.

Can someone explain to me HOW this law can be abused?

 

[blackangst1]

I personally don't. Law enforcement officers in Arizona (specifically Maricopa County) have shown that they have no respect for the law itself and will use whatever means necessary to "get the job done".

The example you pointed out in another post is certainly "reasonable suspicion", harassing some non-white guy with out of state plates and a broken tail light (and don't lie and tell me that it won't happen) is not.

Really? Can you cite cases where this has happened? Just because someone talks on the news and claims abuse happened doesnt mean it did. Please cite court cases. Thanks in advance for no reply.

 

[spidey07]

Can someone explain to me HOW this law can be abused?

It's racist against the Hispanic race. Which isn't even a race, but it's still racist.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Since you quoted that its illegal for the feds to conduct investigation based on race, you obviously think AZ LEO can. Please quote the part of the law that says this. And in return, I will quote where it specifically says it cant.

Youre a tool.

Hey asshole, I didn't attack you so back the fuck off...

 

[nick1985]

Hey asshole, I didn't attack you so back the fuck off...

You cant make a post in P&N without a personal attack...you should know this!


Dickface. :awe:

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I personally don't. Law enforcement officers in Arizona (specifically Maricopa County) have shown that they have no respect for the law itself and will use whatever means necessary to "get the job done".

The example you pointed out in another post is certainly "reasonable suspicion", harassing some non-white guy with out of state plates and a broken tail light (and don't lie and tell me that it won't happen) is not.

driving with a broken tail light is a traffic/MV violation. they have every right to pull someone over for it.
in fact, it's happened to me before. got pulled over, officer asked for drivers license, registration, insurance. i provided all 3 and was given a fix it ticket.

being white or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.
stop fucking playing the race card.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

No, I care more about US citizens and legal immigrants being harassed needlessly by LEOs looking for Illegals.

i will GLADLY be detained for a few minutes if it means less illegals leeching off our country.

 

[blackangst1]

Hey asshole, I didn't attack you so back the fuck off...

No you didnt but you sure did spout a bunch of emotional drivel that you know nothing about. If you believe what you wrote, you ARE a tool. A tool of the pro-immigration crowd. Toughen up and defend your position, Dorothy.

 

[Atreus21]

I'm going to quote some of my opponents in the abortion debate:

"It's the law. Get over it."

 

[CrackRabbit]

driving with a broken tail light is a traffic/MV violation. they have every right to pull someone over for it.
in fact, it's happened to me before. got pulled over, officer asked for drivers license, registration, insurance. i provided all 3 and was given a fix it ticket.

being white or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.
stop fucking playing the race card.

It has everything to do with it.
Out of state White guy gets off with a fix-it ticket.
Out of state non-white guy gets asked if he is a legal citizen of the US even after providing the aforementioned documents.

Those documents are NOT proof of citizenship if you are from certain states.

 

[CrackRabbit]

i will GLADLY be detained for a few minutes if it means less illegals leeching off our country.

Then you are a fool.
I would love to have the illegals gone, but I will not give up my freedom to do so.