Phil Jackson: Jordan better than Kobe

[JM Aggie08]

Pippen is a btich.

 

[Zargon]

Pippen is a btich.

and yes hes more successful in basketball off the court than jordan, who has shown to have horrid draft pick judgement

I mean really, adam morrison? get off the hype train MJ

 

[xalos]

Kobe and Jordan are two of the greatest players ever. It would be tough to say one was truly better than the other. I would say that Phil Jackson is a little biased toward Jordan because they had a much better coaching relationship. Jackson's offense didn't showcase Kobe's abilities and I think its safe to say that we didn't see Kobe develop completely.

Kobe is/was more naturally talented than Jordan but his growth was slowed due to the path his career had to take. It would've been interesting to see Kobe develop to his true potential. I really feel like Jordan developed to his maximum potential and has the career to prove it. As far as natural talent goes though.. Lebron has/had more than possibly both Jordan and Bryant combined but he doesn't have that killer instinct that Bryant and Jordan possess so Lebron will probably go down in NBA history as a "what could've been".

 

[child of wonder]

WHAT?

lol.

Yes, because I'm sure Pippen would have developed into a top 50 player had the Seattle Sonics not traded him so he could mature under the tutelage of Dale Ellis and Tom Chambers.

 

[SP33Demon]

No Larry Bird? I think when its all said and done, Lebron will replace Magic on your list. He's already a more skilled version of Magic, just not the leader or winner that Magic was. Time will tell, but if my life depended on it, I'm taking Magic without hesitation. I also would replace Duncan with Olajuwon, and replace Kareem with Wilt.

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Olajuwon
Wilt

Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Rick Barry deserve to at least be coming off the bench. Kobe should be on the team, but I guess to me he is one of those guys you'd rather beat than win with.

Olajuwon at PF is pure speculation at best. Why not just put Wilt Chamberlain or Shaq or Kareem at PF then? Lmao @ stupid scenarios.

And I'm taking the Big O any day of the week before Bird or Magic or [insert stupid out of position scenario here]. MJ and Big O, who gives a fck about the rest of the team at that point.

 

[Childs]

Olajuwon at PF is pure speculation at best. Why not just put Wilt Chamberlain or Shaq or Kareem at PF then? Lmao @ stupid scenarios.

And I'm taking the Big O any day of the week before Bird or Magic or [insert stupid out of position scenario here]. MJ and Big O, who gives a fck about the rest of the team at that point.

Olajuwon's true height was around 6'9" to 6'10". Plus he had the outside jumper and could score facing the basket. He has more skills than most traditional all time great centers. If people can slot Duncan into 4, I can put Olajuwon there to accommodate he and Wilt in the same front court.

And I think you need to rethink your use of the phrase pure speculation at best and stupid scenario. Neither applies to ranking all time greats by position. The only speculating I did was whether Lebron would be seen as greater than Magic, and to some people, that is already the case.

 

[Miramonti]

In some cases, Lebron isn't even as good as Wade. Wade can always create and get off a makeable shot, and over his career, he is more clutch than James down the stretch, particularly in playoffs. Only recently has James even been associated with being "clutch".

However in some ways, James is better than Jordan and Bryant. He dominates a game end to end in a way that Pippen would, but better, and with an elite ability to score. And he puts out this effort far more frequently.

Jordan, on the other hand, could be unstoppable on offense in a way not seen since wilt, but with a clutch ability that was probably better than wilt. Yet he wasn't an instant 'physical mismatch' like Wilt or Shaq were, or like Lebron is today, and relied on superior ability and quickness.

It's a little scary that James is FAR from done creating his legacy, but also a bit scary that he has 4 mvp's already and is barely a 'go-to' guy for buckets at the end of games (and may never be an 'elite' clutch scorer.)

As for Kobe, he wasn't even a finals' mvp when he played with Shaq. And since his stats clearly show he wasn't as effective as Jordan was during his career,

Jordan > Kobe²

 

[SP33Demon]

Olajuwon's true height was around 6'9" to 6'10". Plus he had the outside jumper and could score facing the basket. He has more skills than most traditional all time great centers. If people can slot Duncan into 4, I can put Olajuwon there to accommodate he and Wilt in the same front court.

And I think you need to rethink your use of the phrase pure speculation at best and stupid scenario. Neither applies to ranking all time greats by position. The only speculating I did was whether Lebron would be seen as greater than Magic, and to some people, that is already the case.

Hakeem was 6-10 with a 7-2 wingspan. Dwight Howard's wingspan is slightly longer (7-4) but no way he had the quickness/coordination that Hakeem had, no center could compete. Bigger (heavier) centers could back Hakeem down but it didn't matter b/c he would block them all day (see Shaq).

You can slot Hakeem wherever you want, but it's still a stupid convo to put true centers into the PF spot because realistically they still need to use their brain that's been programmed over a lifetime at Center. Maybe I'm just a realist.

 

[Childs]

Hakeem was 6-10 with a 7-2 wingspan. Dwight Howard's wingspan is slightly longer (7-4) but no way he had the quickness/coordination that Hakeem had, no center could compete. Bigger (heavier) centers could back Hakeem down but it didn't matter b/c he would block them all day (see Shaq).

You can slot Hakeem wherever you want, but it's still a stupid convo to put true centers into the PF spot because realistically they still need to use their brain that's been programmed over a lifetime at Center. Maybe I'm just a realist.

PF and Center are fairly interchangeable. PF used just be a guy who wasnt as tall as the center, but did all the same things. In fact, when you look at the great centers from the last two decades, they had more all around offensive skills then the power forwards of their time. Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson all had a reliable 15'-18' ft jumper. They could face up to the basket and had go to post moves. They had most of the outside range of today's euro forwards, with all the inside skills of the centers before their time. When you compare them to the old great centers, these guys are closer to todays power forwards.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Having actually lived through Jordan, there is one thing Kobe is missing. When the game came to the end and a few points, Jordan almost always came with the A-Game except his A Game Was like A+++ Game when the game is on the line. Kobe i nthe last 30 seconds is no different than the first 30 seconds.

That is the difference.

And Lebron is not human. Sorry, Lebron is better.

 

[HendrixFan]

While I am far from a Kobe fan, people got to see every game he played in. In Jordan's day you couldn't catch all his games. That was especially true during his formative years in the league when his team wasn't winning championships. Even seeing nightly highlights was a rarity in the day and box scores were the most you could see. It shapes our perception much differently, sort of an unintentional selective memory thing.

 

[Farang]

that's true. I'd probably put Kareem in there, too, simply because the hook is completely indefensible. tough to not consider Wilt or Bill, though.

other problem is that teams like this are generally based on numbers on the court. These teams aren't always that great--conflicting personalities. The first problem with this one--who is the floor leader? Magic or Jordan? huge problem here.

...Especially with Lebron crying like a little bitch all the time. shit....just toss Lebron out. he has no business being on the court with these guys.
Someone like Grant Hill in his position would make that team much better.

Whatever happened to that LA all-star team? Remember Gary Payton and Karl Malone playing together. I think they got a championship, that team was ridiculous for any fan from the 90s

 

[Generator]

I was a big Kobe fan probably the first 10 year of his career. Dude is smart, talented, and competent. But there has always been something lacking in this guy character. Imagine a person who has never had a friend and you end up with somebody like Kobe Bryant.

This is what Phil Jackson is getting at, its not about the skills but just being a human being. Kobe deliberately sabotages relationships. That Malone/Payton team was some of the best basketball I've seen a team play. Then one day Kobe tells the press Karl Malone tried to fuck his wife. Wut? Kobe rapes a woman, admits that from her perspective yeah she was raped, then uses Shaq for excuse as to why he cheated on his wife. Shaq cheats on his wife, so you rape somebody? Just baffling stuff really.

As of this moment Kobe may or may not being suing his mother. His whole family is estranged from him. This guy can never be a leader. He needed people like Shaq, Fisher, Horry, etc. They were the leaders so he could be consumed with whatever basketball skill he worked on that summer.

Somebody with Kobe's human being skills is helpless to what Phil Jackson trying to do. Phil probably wants back with the Laker, probably Shaq to. They want back in that Laker fold, even if Kobe sees them coming at him with the long knives he doesn't have a soul to protect him.

 

[her209]

Suck it OP!

 

[QueBert]

Kobe and Jordan are two of the greatest players ever. It would be tough to say one was truly better than the other. I would say that Phil Jackson is a little biased toward Jordan because they had a much better coaching relationship. Jackson's offense didn't showcase Kobe's abilities and I think its safe to say that we didn't see Kobe develop completely.

Kobe is/was more naturally talented than Jordan but his growth was slowed due to the path his career had to take. It would've been interesting to see Kobe develop to his true potential. I really feel like Jordan developed to his maximum potential and has the career to prove it. As far as natural talent goes though.. Lebron has/had more than possibly both Jordan and Bryant combined but he doesn't have that killer instinct that Bryant and Jordan possess so Lebron will probably go down in NBA history as a "what could've been".

LOL Lebron will retire with the most MVP titles of any player, and potentially as many rings as either Kobe or Jordan. I personally wouldn't refer to guy who's been MVP 4 out of the last 5 years as a "what could've been" but hay, that's just me. Jordan's better, no debating. Kobe? Super debatable, and rings shouldn't be brought up in this discussion. They show Kobe played with a better TEAM. Player Vs player James kills Kobe.

 

[randomrogue]

gtfo with the lebron shit, dude is good because the way his body is built, he does not have the skillset of either jordan or kobe

but jordan > kobe is a no brainer

This.

Growing up watching Magic play though I always wonder how they would truly stand up. The only real time we saw anything was that little 1-on-1 that Jordan had against Magic in one of the last games. I gotta say though that when you watched Magic play at the Forum it was mind blowing. You get none of that with a player like Lebron. He's good but he's not a Jordan or a Magic Johnson. Kobe is tough to gauge since he was a ball hog for a long time and almost carried the floor. I think the truly amazing games were watching something like Magic, Kareem, and Worthy do their thing or Jordan, Pippen, and the rest of those guys. It takes way more than just running to the basket to be the greatest player or among them.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

In some cases, Lebron isn't even as good as Wade. Wade can always create and get off a makeable shot, and over his career, he is more clutch than James down the stretch, particularly in playoffs. Only recently has James even been associated with being "clutch".

Agree with all of this. I just don't see how a guy that defers and shrinks in the moment can be considered the best ever?

 

[edro]

Lebron is top 5 all time, today.

He has shrunk in the playoffs a few times, but I believe he is over that now that he has a ring. He had the world on his shoulders. Now in Miami, he can relax.

I hope he/Wade win another 3 more rings... in a row.

Of course Jordan>all, including Kobe.
Kobe=Lebron in my eyes. Will have to wait and see how Lebron does over the next 5 seasons.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Lebron is top 5 all time, today.

He has shrunk in the playoffs a few times, but I believe he is over that now that he has a ring. He had the world on his shoulders. Now in Miami, he can relax.

I hope he/Wade win another 3 more rings... in a row.

Of course Jordan>all, including Kobe.
Kobe=Lebron in my eyes. Will have to wait and see how Lebron does over the next 5 seasons.

Yeah having Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier, Chalmers, etc.. helps with the clutch aspect.

Hell throw me out there with the heat and I'd look like I belong in the nba.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah having Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier, Chalmers, etc.. helps with the clutch aspect.

Hell throw me out there with the heat and I'd look like I belong in the nba.

lol

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

lol

Having a great team around you helps you to be great. I honestly think I could score a few points if they threw me on the heat. Wait at 3 pt line, get a wide open shot, pump fake drive in for a closer shot, shoot a 15 ft jumper. All day. As you can tell I don't have much respect for the newfound "clutch" Lebrick has found.

 

[Blackjack200]

Having a great team around you helps you to be great. I honestly think I could score a few points if they threw me on the heat. Wait at 3 pt line, get a wide open shot, pump fake drive in for a closer shot, shoot a 15 ft jumper. All day. As you can tell I don't have much respect for the newfound "clutch" Lebrick has found.

And why would an NBA defender bite on your pump fake if they can bat your shot out of the air 5 feet after it's left your fingers?

Keep going, this is hilarious. BTW, I was laughing at you including Battier and Chalmers with Wade, Bosh, and Allen.

 

[edro]

Yeah having Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier, Chalmers, etc.. helps with the clutch aspect.

Pippen, Kerr, Grant, Rodman

The clutch argument is bogus and has been refuted numerous times.
You are basically idolizing Jordan's game winning jumper against the Cavs.

I can't find the article, but I remember seeing a comparison of game winning shots and Kobe, Lebron, Jordan were all almost identical.

Again, I'm not debating Lebron>Jordan... but your reasons for reducing Lebron are wrong.

 

[chitwood]

Having a great team around you helps you to be great. I honestly think I could score a few points if they threw me on the heat. Wait at 3 pt line, get a wide open shot, pump fake drive in for a closer shot, shoot a 15 ft jumper. All day. As you can tell I don't have much respect for the newfound "clutch" Lebrick has found.

This is just priceless.

 

[GasX]

Jordan is the greatest simply because he won everything and won when it mattered. He was the guy that would get you the point(s) to win the game at the death EVERY time. It is not really debatable. By comparison, everyone else is just a choker or wannabe...

It's like Joe Montana. If it's 4th down and you are on your own 5 yard line and there is two minutes left in the game, Joe would get you there. If you were rooting for the other team, you always got that sinking feeling when he went under center...