Phenom2 X4 810 vs Core2 Q9400

[Peroxyde]

Hi,

I hesitate between these two Quad-Core CPUs. This is to build a Linux machine for evaluating various virtualization solutions.

1- AMD Phenom II X4 810 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 4MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103650

2- Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115131


Can you please help for these questions?

Q1. Is there any significant difference in the combine cost? (Mobo + CPU + Ram)

Q2. I prefer low noise (even if the performance is lower) but still would like to go with air cooling. Are the stock cooler + fan OK or should I but an aftermarket one?

Q3. I have a case with 380 W PSU, it is enough to handle these CPUs? The other parts are low end video card, 1 DVD drive and 1 7200 rpm hard drive.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor <- This is the one to get. AMD's competitor to it is the X4 920/940.

Q1. Depending on what you choose, motherboard & RAM can be of similar cost between the 2 platforms, AMD could perhaps be a little cheaper.
Q2. The stock AMD HSF isn't loud at all, IMO. Intel's isn't too bad, but the pitch of the sound is more annoying, IMO. Much depends of the construction and location of the case. If you want a truly "quiet" PC, and aftermarket cooler is necessary.
Q3. A good quality 380W PSU can handle either CPU.

 

[Peroxyde]

Thanks for your input. I don't mind a little difference in price. Noise reduction is my most important criteria, so I am going to look for a heat sink & fan. Do you have any to recommend ? (please note I don't do overclocking)

I think I am going to get this HSF:
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/....php?cPath=1_42&mID=72

may be overkill but less noise is good.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Peroxyde
Thanks for your input. I don't mind a little difference in price. Noise reduction is my most important criteria, so I am going to look for a heat sink & fan. Do you have any to recommend ? (please note I don't do overclocking)

I think I am going to get this HSF:
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/....php?cPath=1_42&mID=72

may be overkill but less noise is good.

If you are really into low noise, I don't think the ACF Pro 7 is quite quiet enough, although it is reasonably quiet HSF. Again, case construction and location plays a major role.

Frostytech.com has the best cooler reviews on the web, IMO. Check 'em out. Benchmarkreviews.com is good, also, amon gothers.

 

[soccerballtux]

Thermalright Ultra 120 or something large like it is the way to go. Definitely want a 120mm cooler.
Get a super quiet 120mm fan (just something with low RPMs) and you'll be fine.

 

[exar333]

The cost will be essentially the same; if you want integrated graphics, the AMD route would give better options without a discrete GPU.

The performance will be very comperable; I doubt any difference between the two would be noticed. Overclocking is likely easier with the C2Q, but both are definitely capable.

The PSU would be sufficient providing you don't add a lot of other "extras" such as a high-end GPU or multiple RAID arrays with power-hungry drives.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
The cost will be essentially the same; if you want integrated graphics, the AMD route would give better options without a discrete GPU.

The performance will be very comperable; I doubt any difference between the two would be noticed. Overclocking is likely easier with the C2Q, but both are definitely capable.

In some cases, the Q9400 is about 30% faster than the X4 810; in others, the difference is only about 10%. Depending on what the OP does, that could mean a lot or nothing at all.

The OP plans on using a discrete sound card, so int. graphics won't matter. If he does decide to use Int. graphics, based on what the OP plans to do with the system, any Intel/AMD/Nvidia solution should work.

 

[alyarb]

i just wanna say that the Thermalright XP-120 is still only $24 at sidewinder. with a 120mm scythe fan that does 68CFM/24dbA for $9, it's a pretty cost effective performer.

 

[Peroxyde]

C2Q, OP ... you lost me there gentlemen. I am not a power user, just build a 2nd computer for around $1000 for practising with virtualization. I need CPU with native VT-x, multi cores, lots of RAMs. Performance is not really critical. Basic hard drive and low end video are enough to get started. Sound and graphics are low priority, whether they are integrated or discrete. I will go for low end. Because the computer will sit right beside my bed so I prefer low noise.

Thanks to Flipped Gazelle, I discover http://www.frostytech.com which is very interesting. I have no idea how a mobo can have enough room to fit these monstrous coolers (120 mm ?!?!). I have noticed two styles of cooler. Tower shape like this one http://www.arctic-cooling.com/....php?cPath=1_42&mID=72 or flat and large like this one: http://www.frostytech.com/arti...iew.cfm?articleID=2248

Which shape is easier to mount?

Also understood for the case, lets see how the HSF do in the current case, then I will see if I will change the case.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[heyheybooboo]

System Power Consumption at idle: PhII 810/Q9400

System power consumption at load is roughly similar - at idle the 810 consumes 20% less wattage.

The 810 costs $45 less - the Q9400 is a bit more powerful - the HT bandwidth would be better for your virtualization. At load you are looking at around 170w so if your PSU is dependable you should be good.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Peroxyde
C2Q, OP ... you lost me there gentlemen. I am not a power user, just build a 2nd computer for around $1000 for practising with virtualization. I need CPU with native VT-x, multi cores, lots of RAMs. Performance is not really critical. Basic hard drive and low end video are enough to get started. Sound and graphics are low priority, whether they are integrated or discrete. I will go for low end. Because the computer will sit right beside my bed so I prefer low noise.

Thanks to Flipped Gazelle, I discover http://www.frostytech.com which is very interesting. I have no idea how a mobo can have enough room to fit these monstrous coolers (120 mm ?!?!). I have noticed two styles of cooler. Tower shape like this one http://www.arctic-cooling.com/....php?cPath=1_42&mID=72 or flat and large like this one: http://www.frostytech.com/arti...iew.cfm?articleID=2248

Which shape is easier to mount?

Also understood for the case, lets see how the HSF do in the current case, then I will see if I will change the case.

Thanks in advance for your help.

C2Q = Intel Core 2 Quad, like the Q9400
OP = Original Poster (you)

Both of the coolers you linked to are easy enough to mount, the main issue is if there is enough clearance in your PC case.

OP, you are saying you have $1000 to spend, which is quite a nice budget! You could easily build an Intel Corei7 system with that. The reason I suggest that is because most Core i7 motherboards (Intel X58 chipset) have 6 memory slots, which you could easily populate with 12 GB RAM. LGA775 & AM2/AM3 motherboards usually have 4 memory slots, making your effective max RAM 8 GB. 4 GB dimms are somewhat rare and prohibitively expensive. Since you say "lots of RAM", that might be beneficial to you.

Or, you could get the AMD X4 810 and an AM3 motherboard, which uses the new DDR3 RAM, and anticipate that manufacturers are more likely to make 4 GB DDR3 modules in the future, if you should ever need that.

 

[nubian1]

Originally posted by: Peroxyde
C2Q, OP ... you lost me there gentlemen. I am not a power user, just build a 2nd computer for around $1000 for practising with virtualization. I need CPU with native VT-x, multi cores, lots of RAMs. Performance is not really critical. Basic hard drive and low end video are enough to get started. Sound and graphics are low priority, whether they are integrated or discrete. I will go for low end. Because the computer will sit right beside my bed so I prefer low noise.

Thanks to Flipped Gazelle, I discover http://www.frostytech.com which is very interesting. I have no idea how a mobo can have enough room to fit these monstrous coolers (120 mm ?!?!). I have noticed two styles of cooler. Tower shape like this one http://www.arctic-cooling.com/....php?cPath=1_42&mID=72 or flat and large like this one: http://www.frostytech.com/arti...iew.cfm?articleID=2248

Which shape is easier to mount?

Also understood for the case, lets see how the HSF do in the current case, then I will see if I will change the case.

Thanks in advance for your help.

You really don't have to spend that much to build a simple Viurtualization "Practice" machine.
On the Intel side of desktop oriented cpu's, processors of the e8xxx series or higher or the Q9xxx series or higher support VT-x only. The motherboard you buy will also have to support this in the bios as well so take this into consideration.

On the AMJD side any X2 or higher AM2 based cpu supports AMD's AMD-V which also includes Nested Paging support for Vm's. AMD-V support with respect to motherboards is pretty much 100% as it is in AMD spec for the boards anyways in particular if you motherboard sports an AMD chipset.

I have built a PC both for production vm's , in a home environment, and for testing purposes.

Asus M3A76-CM 760G AM2+ Motherboard
AMD X2 7750 AM2 CPU
4gig G.Skill PC2-8000
2x Samsung F1 1Tb hard drives
Cooler Master 360 Elite Mini Atx case
Corsair CMPSU-400CX 400W Power Supply
Cooler Master Vortex 752 HSF

All in all this build can probably be had for around half of the $1000 you plan to spend and works great for VM's that aren't exposed to "Industrial" loads.

It's also pretty quiet as each component that would make noise was chosen on the basis of their low noise quality.

I use Proxmox as a bare metal VM platform & I regularly run 4-6 vm's without issue at all including Windows server, SME server, Joomla appliance & Centos 5.3 without a problem.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor <- This is the one to get. AMD's competitor to it is the X4 920/940.

Q1. Depending on what you choose, motherboard & RAM can be of similar cost between the 2 platforms, AMD could perhaps be a little cheaper.
Q2. The stock AMD HSF isn't loud at all, IMO. Intel's isn't too bad, but the pitch of the sound is more annoying, IMO. Much depends of the construction and location of the case. If you want a truly "quiet" PC, and aftermarket cooler is necessary.
Q3. A good quality 380W PSU can handle either CPU.

Sound advice here.

If I could add to it - You might consider aftermarket cooling with 120mm fan. Stock HSFs from both Intel/AMD are good enough for stock operation, but if your CPU usage is consistently high they will become audible. Fan quality and RPM is more important than heatsink itself, and something around 800~1000 RPM fan will do a very good job.

 

[Peroxyde]

You really don't have to spend that much to build a simple Viurtualization "Practice" machine.
On the Intel side of desktop oriented cpu's, processors of the e8xxx series or higher or the Q9xxx series or higher support VT-x only. The motherboard you buy will also have to support this in the bios as well so take this into consideration.

On the AMJD side any X2 or higher AM2 based cpu supports AMD's AMD-V which also includes Nested Paging support for Vm's. AMD-V support with respect to motherboards is pretty much 100% as it is in AMD spec for the boards anyways in particular if you motherboard sports an AMD chipset.

That's good to know. I don't know the details of all the many CPUs out there. So spending money on a "modern" CPU was a lazy approach to lower the risk. So an Athlon X2 (even not 64) can do hardware virtualization?

I use Proxmox as a bare metal VM platform & I regularly run 4-6 vm's without issue at all including Windows server, SME server, Joomla appliance & Centos 5.3 without a problem.

Oh man, another hypervisor? I barely keep up with reading about Xen and KVM and now you make me discover another OpenSource bare metal hypervisor! Whar was your experience with Proxmox? Why this you pick Proxmox instead of KVM, Citrix XenServer, Open Source Xen or VMWare ESXi ?

 

[nubian1]

That's good to know. I don't know the details of all the many CPUs out there. So spending money on a "modern" CPU was a lazy approach to lower the risk. So an Athlon X2 (even not 64) can do hardware virtualization?

There are no 32bit Athlon X2's only 64bit models. You do actually need a "modern" cpu for KVM since it won't run without VT-x or AMD-v being present, it's just that you don't need to spend as much as you thought to get what you are after.

Oh man, another hypervisor? I barely keep up with reading about Xen and KVM and now you make me discover another OpenSource bare metal hypervisor! Whar was your experience with Proxmox? Why this you pick Proxmox instead of KVM, Citrix XenServer, Open Source Xen or VMWare ESXi ?

Proxmox is basically a combination of web based front end for KVM & OpenVZ (Open source version of Parallels Virtuozzo Containers), running on a minimal Debian Etch base. You can run multiple KVM & OpenVZ vm's at the same time. The Proxmox server is controlled remotely through a very nice web based interface.

Some interesting features include oh so simple to setup server clustering, vm automated backup (I believe there are three different backup types available), and VM migration among others.

Best of all it's Free as in Beer & open source.

http://www.proxmox.com/

Here are some Video tutorials.

http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Category:Video_Tutorials


Proxmox can only be installed on a 64bit cpu & if you want to start running some memory hungry vm's 4-8gig of ram is a good place to be.


It's been 100% stable for me & is a blast to use.

 

[Peroxyde]

Hi nubian1,

Thanks for all the info. Let me get my feet wet with KVM first and I will see ProxMox next.

 

[nubian1]

Originally posted by: Peroxyde
Hi nubian1,

Thanks for all the info. Let me get my feet wet with KVM first and I will see ProxMox next.

My pleasure.

Btw, Proxmox being a nice frontend for KVM, as well as OpenVZ, may be a real nice way to "get your feet wet" with KVM. Maybe more so than actually having to install KVM in your favorite Linux distribution & finding a user friendly front end on your own.


KVM is great & runs every windows guest I've shot at it including Windows server, home server, xp, ect with ease.