Phenom this november

[MarcVenice]

We will firt be seeing 2.2 and 2.4ghz phenom cpu's. Can't wait to be honest. Read all about it here. The info is from vr-zone btw. Oh, and 'old' x2's are going to be very cheap. Definately worth buying when not overclocking but still want good performance.

 

[Cogman]

There is no mention of prices, I'm excited as well to see how it preforms, but the clincher is going to be the price. Fortunately AMD is usually pretty competitive when it comes to price, but we will probably have to take a performance hit with the lower price.

Time will tell how good a deal these will be.

 

[harpoon84]

The 'old' X2s (short of the uber 6400+ 'Black Edition' ) are already very cheap... an extra $10 cut here and there is hardly going to change the CPU landscape...

As for Phenom, well, it doesn't look like it will be competitive in performance against the higher bin C2Ds at this point. It could perhaps compete on price/performance on the lower end models, which is exactly what AMD is doing now anyway. It gives current AM2 users a direct upgrade to a quad core, which is a good thing

The crucial thing of course will be pricing. Let's face it - almost ALL current AM2 buyers chose it over S775/C2D because it provides better value at the LOW END. You know the drill, $50 AM2 mobo + $50 3600+ CPU, etc. Voila, great value system with overclocking potential up to 3GHz for an incredibly cheap but capable platform.

How will they react if AMD charges ~$300 for a quad core Phenom? Thats 3x the price of their existing AM2 CPU/mobo combo... will all the value conscious AM2 people suddenly jump at such a deal? I think not.

 

[nonameo]

Originally posted by: harpoon84
The 'old' X2s (short of the uber 6400+ 'Black Edition' ) are already very cheap... an extra $10 cut here and there is hardly going to change the CPU landscape...

As for Phenom, well, it doesn't look like it will be competitive in performance against the higher bin C2Ds at this point. It could perhaps compete on price/performance on the lower end models, which is exactly what AMD is doing now anyway. It gives current AM2 users a direct upgrade to a quad core, which is a good thing

The crucial thing of course will be pricing. Let's face it - almost ALL current AM2 buyers chose it over S775/C2D because it provides better value at the LOW END. You know the drill, $50 AM2 mobo + $50 3600+ CPU, etc. Voila, great value system with overclocking potential up to 3GHz for an incredibly cheap but capable platform.

How will they react if AMD charges ~$300 for a quad core Phenom? Thats 3x the price of their existing AM2 CPU/mobo combo... will all the value conscious AM2 people suddenly jump at such a deal? I think not.

If I could get an AMD quad core + motherboard for 70% of the cost but 90% the performance, I would go for it. Depending on the overclocking overhead.

 

[MarcVenice]

We don't know how phenom performs untill it comes out. AMD engineers have said it will be considerably faster then the barcelona cpu's we've seen benchmarks of, because it's a later stepping. I guess we'll just see in a month or so, won't we? I for one hope a 2.4ghz phenom can compete with a 3.0ghz c2d. I might be dreaming, but I hope not.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
We don't know how phenom performs untill it comes out. AMD engineers have said it will be considerably faster then the barcelona cpu's we've seen benchmarks of, because it's a later stepping. I guess we'll just see in a month or so, won't we? I for one hope a 2.4ghz phenom can compete with a 3.0ghz c2d. I might be dreaming, but I hope not.

AMD engineers have said 5% on some specific memory-related benchmarks. But seeing as how reviews have already used the B2 stepping Barcelonas, I expect the Q6600 to be faster than the 2.4GHz Phenom on the desktop.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
We don't know how phenom performs untill it comes out. AMD engineers have said it will be considerably faster then the barcelona cpu's we've seen benchmarks of, because it's a later stepping. I guess we'll just see in a month or so, won't we? I for one hope a 2.4ghz phenom can compete with a 3.0ghz c2d. I might be dreaming, but I hope not.

AMD engineers have said 5% on some specific memory-related benchmarks. But seeing as how reviews have already used the B2 stepping Barcelonas, I expect the Q6600 to be faster than the 2.4GHz Phenom on the desktop.

Actually, what they said was that 5% was a conservative estimate, and that "B1 versus BA should be at least a 5%, if not more, gain in stream, integer and FPU performance."

B1 was what was reviewed, BA is what was shipped. These revs are for the standard and low power versions only.

The B2 stepping isn't the improved version of B1 or BA, it's the initial version being used for the Phenom and Extreme edition of Barcys...but it's probably not the final rev for those either (they're expecting that it will be B3 when shipped).

Edit: BTW, I wouldn't really put a lot of stock into a VR-Zone prediction...
Almost a year ago, the posted this Intel roadmap which they also said was confirmed...notice that they were well off both in time and clockspeed for the Penryn releases. (e.g. Yorkfield at 3.46-3.73 GHz and Wolfdale at 3.5-4 GHz, both in Q3 2007)

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Viditor
Actually, what they said was that 5% was a conservative estimate, and that "B1 versus BA should be at least a 5%, if not more, gain in stream, integer and FPU performance."

Stream is a memory bandwidth benchmark, and integer and FPU performance is ambiguous. Memory bandwidth isn't particularly important in most desktop applications.

The B2 stepping isn't the improved version of B1 or BA, it's the initial version being used for the Phenom and Extreme edition of Barcys...but it's probably not the final rev for those either (they're expecting that it will be B3 when shipped).

B2 is a improved stepping of the BA stepping, seeing as it fixes a number of errata found in BA.

 

[o1die]

I'm hoping that Intel will drop the q6600 one more time. I saw an oem B3 stepping for $243 recently. I also hope amd makes a 55w version like the 1.7 barcelona. I don't need a top end cpu for my computer, but don't want to spend extra $$$ for the registered memory required for barcelona.

 

[MarcVenice]

Well I hope Intel actually comes up with good prices with their new qaudcores. I've been building several q6600 for friends, and I've oc-ed them, to 3.2-3.6ghz, depending on their needs and cooling solution, and I'm madly in love with their pc's. My x2 3800+ @ 2.6ghz can keep up in most games right now, but the overclocker in me wants a qaudcore, slap a thermalright 120 ultra extreme on it, and OC it to 4ghz. I hope Penryn qaudcores will allow me to do that.

Or phenom has to OC like mad, but overclocking is pretty important, so that's going to be the deciding factor.

 

[HannibalX]

Originally posted by: harpoon84
As for Phenom, well, it doesn't look like it will be competitive in performance against the higher bin C2Ds at this point.

Speculation... lets wait until we have the hardware to pass judgement. A monkey can make better guesses.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I'm looking forward to see how it performs. I might finally upgrade my trusty old s939 system in spring. I don't go for the best performance, but bang for the buck. I'd like to stay with AMD, but who knows... I may be building my first Intel system in years.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
We don't know how phenom performs untill it comes out. AMD engineers have said it will be considerably faster then the barcelona cpu's we've seen benchmarks of, because it's a later stepping. I guess we'll just see in a month or so, won't we? I for one hope a 2.4ghz phenom can compete with a 3.0ghz c2d. I might be dreaming, but I hope not.

AMD engineers have said 5% on some specific memory-related benchmarks. But seeing as how reviews have already used the B2 stepping Barcelonas, I expect the Q6600 to be faster than the 2.4GHz Phenom on the desktop.

Actually, what they said was that 5% was a conservative estimate, and that "B1 versus BA should be at least a 5%, if not more, gain in stream, integer and FPU performance."

B1 was what was reviewed, BA is what was shipped. These revs are for the standard and low power versions only.

The B2 stepping isn't the improved version of B1 or BA, it's the initial version being used for the Phenom and Extreme edition of Barcys...but it's probably not the final rev for those either (they're expecting that it will be B3 when shipped).

Edit: BTW, I wouldn't really put a lot of stock into a VR-Zone prediction...
Almost a year ago, the posted this Intel roadmap which they also said was confirmed...notice that they were well off both in time and clockspeed for the Penryn releases. (e.g. Yorkfield at 3.46-3.73 GHz and Wolfdale at 3.5-4 GHz, both in Q3 2007)

Doesn't it strike you a bit curious that "B1 was what was reviewed" but "BA is what was shipped" and Anandtech has not bothered to go back and amend their "B1 review" with the dreamy results that "BA" is supposed to be delivering customers?

And already starting on the "Phenom will be B2 at release, so if it sucks then be ready to hear me talk about it not being B3 yet" bandwagon? Pre-release? My this is getting old.

Would you be at all surprised if Intel really did intend to ship product as the VR-Zone "prediction" stipulated but when Intel came to the realization that there was absolutely no need whatsoever to be so over-the-top aggressive on their 2007 product SKU's to compete with the entirely lackluster K10 SKU's? Honestly it is like you aren't even reading what you are writing, so so so much bias filtering thru that brain of yours hoping AMD ticker symbol will take off soon.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
We don't know how phenom performs untill it comes out. AMD engineers have said it will be considerably faster then the barcelona cpu's we've seen benchmarks of, because it's a later stepping. I guess we'll just see in a month or so, won't we? I for one hope a 2.4ghz phenom can compete with a 3.0ghz c2d. I might be dreaming, but I hope not.

AMD engineers have said 5% on some specific memory-related benchmarks. But seeing as how reviews have already used the B2 stepping Barcelonas, I expect the Q6600 to be faster than the 2.4GHz Phenom on the desktop.

Actually, what they said was that 5% was a conservative estimate, and that "B1 versus BA should be at least a 5%, if not more, gain in stream, integer and FPU performance."

B1 was what was reviewed, BA is what was shipped. These revs are for the standard and low power versions only.

The B2 stepping isn't the improved version of B1 or BA, it's the initial version being used for the Phenom and Extreme edition of Barcys...but it's probably not the final rev for those either (they're expecting that it will be B3 when shipped).

Edit: BTW, I wouldn't really put a lot of stock into a VR-Zone prediction...
Almost a year ago, the posted this Intel roadmap which they also said was confirmed...notice that they were well off both in time and clockspeed for the Penryn releases. (e.g. Yorkfield at 3.46-3.73 GHz and Wolfdale at 3.5-4 GHz, both in Q3 2007)

Doesn't it strike you a bit curious that "B1 was what was reviewed" but "BA is what was shipped" and Anandtech has not bothered to go back and amend their "B1 review" with the dreamy results that "BA" is supposed to be delivering customers?

And already starting on the "Phenom will be B2 at release, so if it sucks then be ready to hear me talk about it not being B3 yet" bandwagon? Pre-release? My this is getting old.

Would you be at all surprised if Intel really did intend to ship product as the VR-Zone "prediction" stipulated but when Intel came to the realization that there was absolutely no need whatsoever to be so over-the-top aggressive on their 2007 product SKU's to compete with the entirely lackluster K10 SKU's? Honestly it is like you aren't even reading what you are writing, so so so much bias filtering thru that brain of yours hoping AMD ticker symbol will take off soon.

First time ive seen you go off on someone. :X

The one thing i'll agree thats greater about AMD over intel.

SLI Support

Thats IT. Otherwise i dont think AMD has a chance. Sorry i went though the AMD phases like all people on this forum. I learned my overclocking, mem tweeking, and other sorts on my NF3 platform -> 570.

Im still debating of 3 X2900XT's > 2 x 8800GTX.

No one can answer this question as it appears. :\

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
We don't know how phenom performs untill it comes out. AMD engineers have said it will be considerably faster then the barcelona cpu's we've seen benchmarks of, because it's a later stepping. I guess we'll just see in a month or so, won't we? I for one hope a 2.4ghz phenom can compete with a 3.0ghz c2d. I might be dreaming, but I hope not.

AMD engineers have said 5% on some specific memory-related benchmarks. But seeing as how reviews have already used the B2 stepping Barcelonas, I expect the Q6600 to be faster than the 2.4GHz Phenom on the desktop.

Actually, what they said was that 5% was a conservative estimate, and that "B1 versus BA should be at least a 5%, if not more, gain in stream, integer and FPU performance."

B1 was what was reviewed, BA is what was shipped. These revs are for the standard and low power versions only.

The B2 stepping isn't the improved version of B1 or BA, it's the initial version being used for the Phenom and Extreme edition of Barcys...but it's probably not the final rev for those either (they're expecting that it will be B3 when shipped).

Edit: BTW, I wouldn't really put a lot of stock into a VR-Zone prediction...
Almost a year ago, the posted this Intel roadmap which they also said was confirmed...notice that they were well off both in time and clockspeed for the Penryn releases. (e.g. Yorkfield at 3.46-3.73 GHz and Wolfdale at 3.5-4 GHz, both in Q3 2007)

Doesn't it strike you a bit curious that "B1 was what was reviewed" but "BA is what was shipped" and Anandtech has not bothered to go back and amend their "B1 review" with the dreamy results that "BA" is supposed to be delivering customers?

Yes it does...does that make it wrong?
1. The point was brought up by Kris Kubicki, not me...and Kris is a friend and former employee of Anand's. Are you saying Kris is lying?
From Kris Kubicki's blog: "The 2.0 GHz samples we saw on Monday were of AMD's B1 stepping of Barcelona. But these processors are not the ones we'll see on Newegg's shelves"
2. The AMD errata sheet for Barcy only lists BA and B2 so far...B1 was apparently only an engineering sample (table 7, page 12). This too is strange...but does that mean it didn't happen?

And already starting on the "Phenom will be B2 at release, so if it sucks then be ready to hear me talk about it not being B3 yet" bandwagon? Pre-release? My this is getting old.

Again, this is coming from KK, not me...

"According to engineers at Sun and SuperMicro, B3 silicon is already on its way to American testing facilities. Unfortunately, AMD's current desktop and server roadmap stops labeling individual processors in Q1 2008. B3-stepped processors do not appear on that roadmap update"

Would you be at all surprised if Intel really did intend to ship product as the VR-Zone "prediction" stipulated but when Intel came to the realization that there was absolutely no need whatsoever to be so over-the-top aggressive on their 2007 product SKU's to compete with the entirely lackluster K10 SKU's? Honestly it is like you aren't even reading what you are writing, so so so much bias filtering thru that brain of yours hoping AMD ticker symbol will take off soon.

I would have been astounded...considering even Intel said that they were not.
I guess you don't remember what was going on at the time (or are just enjoying a good rant for the H of it...). Just prior to VR-Zone's release of their "Intel Roadmap", there were credible rumours that they were moving up the timetable for shipping Penryn from Q1 08 to Q4 07 at a top speed of 3.33 GHz.
And in fact, while Intel's roadmap at the 06 Fall IDF still showed availability on all 45nm wasn't until 2008, they did confirm that they would be shipping in 07.

But let me get this straight...are you saying that Intel is only shipping their lowest bins because AMD just won't be able to compete? Puuuhhleeeease...!
I can certainly buy that once the ramp is mature, Intel will be knocking out higher clockspeeds...but a 4 GHz Wolfdale and a 3.73 GHz Yorkfield by last quarter is and always has been crazy talk!

I know you're smarter than that, so I have to assume your "it is like you aren't even reading what you are writing, so so so much bias filtering thru that brain of yours" comment is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: Viditor
Actually, what they said was that 5% was a conservative estimate, and that "B1 versus BA should be at least a 5%, if not more, gain in stream, integer and FPU performance."

Stream is a memory bandwidth benchmark, and integer and FPU performance is ambiguous. Memory bandwidth isn't particularly important in most desktop applications.

Are you familiar with the phrase Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc?
Let me put it another way...what makes you think it's a memory bandwidth errata that was fixed in BA?

The B2 stepping isn't the improved version of B1 or BA, it's the initial version being used for the Phenom and Extreme edition of Barcys...but it's probably not the final rev for those either (they're expecting that it will be B3 when shipped).

B2 is a improved stepping of the BA stepping, seeing as it fixes a number of errata found in BA.

B2 and BA were developed simultaneously for different chips...
Saying that B2 has "fixes" is misleading, it has a slightly different design goal.
For example, errata #274 - "IDDIO Specification Exceeded During Power-Up
Sequencing"...the spec may just be different for chips using rev B2 because they are to be HT3 while BA is not.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: Viditor
Are you familiar with the phrase Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc?
Let me put it another way...what makes you think it's a memory bandwidth errata that was fixed in BA?

Because that's what Stream is.

B2 and BA were developed simultaneously for different chips...
Saying that B2 has "fixes" is misleading, it has a slightly different design goal.
For example, errata #274 - "IDDIO Specification Exceeded During Power-Up
Sequencing"...the spec may just be different for chips using rev B2 because they are to be HT3 while BA is not.

Except that AMD provided B2 stepping Opterons.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: Viditor
Are you familiar with the phrase Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc?
Let me put it another way...what makes you think it's a memory bandwidth errata that was fixed in BA?

Because that's what Stream is.

Do you mean STREAM the benchmark, or AMD's Stream (CTM) graphics processer? Do you happen to know which one they were referring to (and how do you know?)?

Edit:BTW, as TriplePlay is being launched the same day that Phenom is, it's quite possible that it's the Stream GPU...just a thought.

B2 and BA were developed simultaneously for different chips...
Saying that B2 has "fixes" is misleading, it has a slightly different design goal.
For example, errata #274 - "IDDIO Specification Exceeded During Power-Up
Sequencing"...the spec may just be different for chips using rev B2 because they are to be HT3 while BA is not.

Except that AMD provided B2 stepping Opterons.

How does that change things? Do we know if that 2.5 GHz Barcelona was HT3 capable? Could that be the reason it didn't run properly on the mobo/bios provided?

 

[lopri]

I am more concerned with ATI.. well, AMD chipset. (RD790?) ATI has never been known for a decent chipset (whether it's performance or compatibility), and I will skip the first wave of boards based on their new chipset like a plague. Heck, I wouldn't even touch X38 nor nForce 7 for that matter - at least for like first 6 months.