Phenom II 940 now or AM3 Phenom II next month?

[SunnyD]

I'll be upgrading here soon, just collecting my pennies right now. I currently have a Gigabyte 790GX board, and am wondering if I should wait for the AM3 PII's or get the 940 now.

There's a few reasons an AM3 would be better - the lower TDP, the faster HT bus, but I'll still be on DDR2 - if I go to DDR3 I'd end up just going i7.

Couple that with this rumor... (The THG link looks to have been pulled)

But alas, I was hoping for a black edition CPU, which looks like it won't happen until ~June unless I go with an X3 instead...

Opinions?

Also - anyone know if the memory controller on the AM3 CPUs will allow DDR2-1066 on 4 DIMMs? The AM2+ ones don't...

Edit: This will be an upgrade from an X2 3800+ (Windsor)

 

[thilanliyan]

I'm in your boat as well and I've decided to get an AM3 so that I can just change to a new motherboard and ram later instead of a complete overhaul (unless the 940 drops even more in price).

 

[LoneNinja]

I thought the 3.0Ghz BE AM3 was coming in April? The TDP won't be much lower on the AM3 chips, If I recall correctly the 920 barely breaks 95watt under load making it a 125watt chip. The 3.0Ghz AM3 will still be a 125watt chip, just the lower 2.8Ghz will shift down to 95watt.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: LoneNinja
I thought the 3.0Ghz BE AM3 was coming in April? The TDP won't be much lower on the AM3 chips, If I recall correctly the 920 barely breaks 95watt under load making it a 125watt chip. The 3.0Ghz AM3 will still be a 125watt chip, just the lower 2.8Ghz will shift down to 95watt.

Even April then... still a ways off. None of the February quads AM3's will be BE's. The X3 720 will be BE, which will be out in Feb. So I was a bit off. And you're right, the 945 is supposed to be 125w TDP.

 

[richierich1212]

I'm currently looking at Amazon for both the 920 and 940 @ 189.99 and 229.99 respectively for my system build since I'm in California. I don't have a motherboard at the moment so I most likely will wait for an AM3 chip as well. But that Newegg Phenom II + Biostar mobo combo tempts me every minute.

 

[RaptureMe]

Just get the 940 now the TDP is the same for the 940 as it will be with the AM3 945..
specially since you already have that great of a mobo and ram..

 

[zenguy]

If you have an X2 3800+, I would upgrade now :>>

The Difference should be massive.
While there is always something newer/better coming, I don't think the new AM3s are gonna blow your mind that much in comparison.

Don't suffer during the next 3 Months.
Live your Life Now :>

 

[William Gaatjes]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
I'll be upgrading here soon, just collecting my pennies right now. I currently have a Gigabyte 790GX board, and am wondering if I should wait for the AM3 PII's or get the 940 now.

There's a few reasons an AM3 would be better - the lower TDP, the faster HT bus, but I'll still be on DDR2 - if I go to DDR3 I'd end up just going i7.

Couple that with this rumor... (The THG link looks to have been pulled)

But alas, I was hoping for a black edition CPU, which looks like it won't happen until ~June unless I go with an X3 instead...

Opinions?

Also - anyone know if the memory controller on the AM3 CPUs will allow DDR2-1066 on 4 DIMMs? The AM2+ ones don't...

Edit: This will be an upgrade from an X2 3800+ (Windsor)

When going AM3 , you will have to buy DDR3 as well for as far as i know. The fortunate thing about this is that you should get a decent memory bandwidth upgrade when compared to AM2+. There should also be some improvements in power management and maybe the memory controller and the L3 will be clocked higher showing also a n improvement in memory bandwidth. This all should make the AM3 versions faster.
I myself am planning a AMD system (for more reasons then just raw cpu performance), i feel the DDR2 options is good enough for my needs but since i am waiting for mature product i might as well wait to see what AM3 does.

The downside to all this is the more expensive DDR3 memory but in return it consumes less power..

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: William Gaatjes

Originally posted by: SunnyD
I'll be upgrading here soon, just collecting my pennies right now. I currently have a Gigabyte 790GX board, and am wondering if I should wait for the AM3 PII's or get the 940 now.

There's a few reasons an AM3 would be better - the lower TDP, the faster HT bus, but I'll still be on DDR2 - if I go to DDR3 I'd end up just going i7.

Couple that with this rumor... (The THG link looks to have been pulled)

But alas, I was hoping for a black edition CPU, which looks like it won't happen until ~June unless I go with an X3 instead...

Opinions?

Also - anyone know if the memory controller on the AM3 CPUs will allow DDR2-1066 on 4 DIMMs? The AM2+ ones don't...

Edit: This will be an upgrade from an X2 3800+ (Windsor)

When going AM3 , you will have to buy DDR3 as well for as far as i know. The fortunate thing about this is that you should get a decent memory bandwidth upgrade when compared to AM2+. There should also be some improvements in power management and maybe the memory controller and the L3 will be clocked higher showing also a n improvement in memory bandwidth. This all should make the AM3 versions faster.
I myself am planning a AMD system (for more reasons then just raw cpu performance), i feel the DDR2 options is good enough for my needs but since i am waiting for mature product i might as well wait to see what AM3 does.

The downside to all this is the more expensive DDR3 memory but in return it consumes less power..

I'm not upgrading to DDR3 - I already have an AM2+ motherboard which will support the AM3 CPU's.

 

[Darth Farter]

Wow, very same thing I've been debating with myself.

I have a 5000+ BE, a Gigabyte 790GX DS4H and also 4x1gb ocz 1066 ddr2.

I'm leaning on just buying a 940 as I just got the 790gx and probably won't upgrade at all to am3 until the next platform has a tangible 25-50% increase in performance..

next to the 940 upgrade I was considering a 55nm GTX 260, up from my old 8800gts 320mb and a 23" Dell 2309 up from my old 22".

anyone tips on my plans, don't be afraid to voice it.

 

[taltamir]

if you buy the 940 now... when you finally decide to upgrade from it, you could just sell it on ebay and buy an AM3 one, or a better AM3 CPU... AM3 is only gonna give you DDR3, and historically ram speed id not that big of a deal.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: taltamir
if you buy the 940 now... when you finally decide to upgrade from it, you could just sell it on ebay and buy an AM3 one, or a better AM3 CPU... AM3 is only gonna give you DDR3, and historically ram speed id not that big of a deal.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking as well. Aren't the current Phenom 2's effectively "AM3" chips anyway?

If I were in the mood to upgrade I would personally go with the Phenom 2 940 and load it up with 8gb of DDR2 ram. The memory is poised to go up in price and out of production. I'd say now is the time to buy cheap DDR2 otherwise you may miss the boat.

 

[taltamir]

mmm... you know i am almost tempted to buy a pallet of DDR2 memory so I can resell it at a profit in a year or two when the price goes up. if you time it right you can make money on your upgrade...

AFAIK the current phenoms will not work in an AM3 board... which are going to be identical to AM2 only with DDR3 instead of DDR2... AM3 chips will work in both boards, using whatever ram matches the socket.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: taltamir
mmm... you know i am almost tempted to buy a pallet of DDR2 memory so I can resell it at a profit in a year or two when the price goes up. if you time it right you can make money on your upgrade...

AFAIK the current phenoms will not work in an AM3 board... which are going to be identical to AM2 only with DDR3 instead of DDR2... AM3 chips will work in both boards, using whatever ram matches the socket.

If that's the case then IMO it's worth waiting for the AM3 processors.

 

[taltamir]

the thing is, for current phenom2 chips, you should see no speed difference on DDR3... xbit just revisited the ddr2 vs 3 issue... if you have a Q9550, you will get at most a 3% speedup going from DDR2-800 to DDR-1066. DDR3-1333 is the same speed as DDR2-1066 (faster or slower depending on timing), and DDR3-1600 with low timings is slightly faster too... IF you OC to around 4ghz, than you will see a max of 6% speedup in SOME games/programs going from DDR2-800 with low timings (35$ today) to DDR3-1600 with low timings.

With those figures, and the way the p2 920 and 940 compare to the Q series, I Would expect it to be no practical benefit to running it in DDR3 instead of 2, just wasting your money... future phenom2 chips though, might benefit from it more. Although, if you are one of those saying they are OCing their p2 940BE to 6.3ghz on liquid nitrogen, then I guess you would get a hefty benefit from DDR3.

 

[taltamir]

you know what, eventually DDR3 will be a lot cheaper to buy, so it makes sense to wait, because the resell value of the AM3 phenom2 will be higher. There is also the perceived speed increased causing people to pay more for it on a resell, and the fact that DDR3 takes less electricity.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: taltamir
you know what, eventually DDR3 will be a lot cheaper to buy, so it makes sense to wait, because the resell value of the AM3 phenom2 will be higher. There is also the perceived speed increased causing people to pay more for it on a resell, and the fact that DDR3 takes less electricity.

It's just nice to at least have some sort of upgrade path, plus then you're not trapped with a DDR2 platform in the event that you suddenly need 16GB of ram, and they don't even make the stuff anymore.

The triple core may be quite cheap as well, and for most people they won't even notice the missing core. Most games these days are probably optimized for 3 cores anyway due to the Xbox 360.

 

[taltamir]

but its a 0% performance upgrade for 2/3 of the cost of a full upgrade... you keep your existing CPU, and replace the ram and mobo, at some expense, to get the EXACT same performance as you did before... only more ram... it makes more sense to buy a new CPU at that point... by the time you will need 16GB of ram the phenom2 will be as obsolete as an athlon XP is today.

it will make more sense to upgrade the CPU while keeping the mobo and ram. not vice versa.

 

[richierich1212]

since i'm building a new system, got the itchy finger and pulled the trigger on the PII 920

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: taltamir
the thing is, for current phenom2 chips, you should see no speed difference on DDR3... xbit just revisited the ddr2 vs 3 issue... if you have a Q9550, you will get at most a 3% speedup going from DDR2-800 to DDR-1066. DDR3-1333 is the same speed as DDR2-1066 (faster or slower depending on timing), and DDR3-1600 with low timings is slightly faster too... IF you OC to around 4ghz, than you will see a max of 6% speedup in SOME games/programs going from DDR2-800 with low timings (35$ today) to DDR3-1600 with low timings.

With those figures, and the way the p2 920 and 940 compare to the Q series, I Would expect it to be no practical benefit to running it in DDR3 instead of 2, just wasting your money... future phenom2 chips though, might benefit from it more. Although, if you are one of those saying they are OCing their p2 940BE to 6.3ghz on liquid nitrogen, then I guess you would get a hefty benefit from DDR3.

DDR3-based Phenom II gets a showing (TheINQ)

google cached article on tomshardware taiwan edition

google translated to english version of google cached article on tomshardware taiwan edition

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: taltamir
the thing is, for current phenom2 chips, you should see no speed difference on DDR3... xbit just revisited the ddr2 vs 3 issue... if you have a Q9550, you will get at most a 3% speedup going from DDR2-800 to DDR-1066. DDR3-1333 is the same speed as DDR2-1066 (faster or slower depending on timing), and DDR3-1600 with low timings is slightly faster too... IF you OC to around 4ghz, than you will see a max of 6% speedup in SOME games/programs going from DDR2-800 with low timings (35$ today) to DDR3-1600 with low timings.

With those figures, and the way the p2 920 and 940 compare to the Q series, I Would expect it to be no practical benefit to running it in DDR3 instead of 2, just wasting your money... future phenom2 chips though, might benefit from it more. Although, if you are one of those saying they are OCing their p2 940BE to 6.3ghz on liquid nitrogen, then I guess you would get a hefty benefit from DDR3.

On the contrary, you WILL see an increase simply from the faster HT link. The AM3 chips run at a full 4GHz HT link, whereas the AM2+ Phenom II's run at 3600. The chip itself will be running non-core components faster.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: taltamir
the thing is, for current phenom2 chips, you should see no speed difference on DDR3... xbit just revisited the ddr2 vs 3 issue... if you have a Q9550, you will get at most a 3% speedup going from DDR2-800 to DDR-1066. DDR3-1333 is the same speed as DDR2-1066 (faster or slower depending on timing), and DDR3-1600 with low timings is slightly faster too... IF you OC to around 4ghz, than you will see a max of 6% speedup in SOME games/programs going from DDR2-800 with low timings (35$ today) to DDR3-1600 with low timings.

With those figures, and the way the p2 920 and 940 compare to the Q series, I Would expect it to be no practical benefit to running it in DDR3 instead of 2, just wasting your money... future phenom2 chips though, might benefit from it more. Although, if you are one of those saying they are OCing their p2 940BE to 6.3ghz on liquid nitrogen, then I guess you would get a hefty benefit from DDR3.

On the contrary, you WILL see an increase simply from the faster HT link. The AM3 chips run at a full 4GHz HT link, whereas the AM2+ Phenom II's run at 3600. The chip itself will be running non-core components faster.

Sunny - I have no experience to draw upon to give me any sense of an educated guess here, but which do you feel is more apt to cause higher desktop performance with the PhII's: (1) faster HT link, or (2) faster clocked L3$?

My assumption till now has been that the higher clocked L3$ would be more of an impact than say in increase in the HT link...but again I have no experience with HT links and AMD since the Athlon XP days.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: taltamir
the thing is, for current phenom2 chips, you should see no speed difference on DDR3... xbit just revisited the ddr2 vs 3 issue... if you have a Q9550, you will get at most a 3% speedup going from DDR2-800 to DDR-1066. DDR3-1333 is the same speed as DDR2-1066 (faster or slower depending on timing), and DDR3-1600 with low timings is slightly faster too... IF you OC to around 4ghz, than you will see a max of 6% speedup in SOME games/programs going from DDR2-800 with low timings (35$ today) to DDR3-1600 with low timings.

With those figures, and the way the p2 920 and 940 compare to the Q series, I Would expect it to be no practical benefit to running it in DDR3 instead of 2, just wasting your money... future phenom2 chips though, might benefit from it more. Although, if you are one of those saying they are OCing their p2 940BE to 6.3ghz on liquid nitrogen, then I guess you would get a hefty benefit from DDR3.

On the contrary, you WILL see an increase simply from the faster HT link. The AM3 chips run at a full 4GHz HT link, whereas the AM2+ Phenom II's run at 3600. The chip itself will be running non-core components faster.

Sunny - I have no experience to draw upon to give me any sense of an educated guess here, but which do you feel is more apt to cause higher desktop performance with the PhII's: (1) faster HT link, or (2) faster clocked L3$?

My assumption till now has been that the higher clocked L3$ would be more of an impact than say in increase in the HT link...but again I have no experience with HT links and AMD since the Athlon XP days.

Well both actually. I thought it was somewhat implied that the HT link speed also regulated the speed of things like cache and such too. All in all, I think an 11% increase in bus bandwidth and cache speed would likely translate into some tangible overall gain.

 

[taltamir]

the inquirer article is a joke, and they make some pretty stupid assumptions and misinterpretation... and toms hardware is the crappiest review site I know, it routinely makes procedural errors, as well as having other problems.
Time will tell.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: taltamir
the thing is, for current phenom2 chips, you should see no speed difference on DDR3... xbit just revisited the ddr2 vs 3 issue... if you have a Q9550, you will get at most a 3% speedup going from DDR2-800 to DDR-1066. DDR3-1333 is the same speed as DDR2-1066 (faster or slower depending on timing), and DDR3-1600 with low timings is slightly faster too... IF you OC to around 4ghz, than you will see a max of 6% speedup in SOME games/programs going from DDR2-800 with low timings (35$ today) to DDR3-1600 with low timings.

With those figures, and the way the p2 920 and 940 compare to the Q series, I Would expect it to be no practical benefit to running it in DDR3 instead of 2, just wasting your money... future phenom2 chips though, might benefit from it more. Although, if you are one of those saying they are OCing their p2 940BE to 6.3ghz on liquid nitrogen, then I guess you would get a hefty benefit from DDR3.

On the contrary, you WILL see an increase simply from the faster HT link. The AM3 chips run at a full 4GHz HT link, whereas the AM2+ Phenom II's run at 3600. The chip itself will be running non-core components faster.

Sunny - I have no experience to draw upon to give me any sense of an educated guess here, but which do you feel is more apt to cause higher desktop performance with the PhII's: (1) faster HT link, or (2) faster clocked L3$?

My assumption till now has been that the higher clocked L3$ would be more of an impact than say in increase in the HT link...but again I have no experience with HT links and AMD since the Athlon XP days.

Well both actually. I thought it was somewhat implied that the HT link speed also regulated the speed of things like cache and such too. All in all, I think an 11% increase in bus bandwidth and cache speed would likely translate into some tangible overall gain.

Yeah I'm not asking whether increasing HT means increased L3$ or not, of course it is implied that raising one also raises the other...I was more just curious based on what you know of the architecture whether the increased HT itself is really going to contribute to IPC gains or whether it was more likely that the commensurate increases in L3$ speed would be the dominate contributor to IPC increases with AM3/DDR3 PHII's vs PHII's on AM2+/AM2.