Pew Survey, Distrust of America Increases

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FrodoB

Senior member
Apr 5, 2001
299
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: FrodoB

Give examples of how other countries aren't sharing intelligence info with us anymore? That's right, you can't do that.
Just face it, the foreign policy of the left has been a disaster since the '70s. Jimmy Carter was incompetent. Bill Clinton set a precedent of weakness in dealing with terrorim. Good things happen when Repulicans are in power. Reagan defeated the Soviet empire. Bush senior prevented Saddam from controlling the Middle East. Bush junior finished off Saddam and has destroyed much of Al Queda.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0520-02.htm

LONDON - The U.S.-led war on Iraq gave Al Qaeda the opportunity to reinvigorate its weakened terrorist network with new recruits and more funding, say experts on terrorism.

The Iraq war "clearly increased the terrorist impulse," said Jonathan Stevenson, senior fellow for counter-terrorism at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies.

The U.S.-led invasion, at least in the short term, drew more people toward Osama bin Laden's vision of a global clash between Islam and the West, Stevenson said yesterday.

It partly explains the series of co-ordinated, multiple attacks last Tuesday in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, where 34 people died, and on Friday in Casablanca, Morocco, where 41 people, including 13 attackers, were killed by five bomb blasts.

Stevenson believes U.S. President George W. Bush's administration knew full well the war would initially increase support for Al Qaeda. But U.S. officials estimated the long-term impact of setting up a democratic government in Iraq would outweigh the short-term pain of more terror attacks, he said.

Other experts, however, believe that the U.S., and those European countries that supported the war, badly miscalculated.


"The political masters in the U.S. and Europe underestimated the extent to which bin Laden would use the war in Iraq as a propaganda weapon to rejuvenate the movement and attract more funds," said Paul Wilkinson, head of the Center for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at St. Andrew's University in Scotland.

"As far as the war against Al Qaeda goes, it possibly has been counterproductive. We face turbulent times ahead," Wilkinson told Sky TV.

U.S. officials partly tried to justify the Iraq war by insisting there were links between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's ousted regime ? an assertion most experts continue to believe is unsubstantiated.

By linking the Iraq war with the war on terror, Bush has left himself vulnerable to Americans concluding the invasion was a failure if terrorist attacks continue, said Andrew Garfield, director of the International Center for Security Analysis at King's College in London.

Garfield believes Al Qaeda continues to plan "something big" in the way of an attack in Europe or North America. But police crackdowns and increased security co-operation across borders have foiled attempts to carry out such plans since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

Prince Bandar bin Sultan, Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United States, told reporters in Riyadh yesterday: "There is chatter, a high level of chatter regionally and in other international spots" that something could happen in Saudi Arabia or the United States.

Al Qaeda was always a loose collection of local terrorist groups. But the loss of its training camps and bases in Afghanistan after the U.S.-led war there, as well as the arrests of several top lieutenants, have forced the terrorist network to become even more decentralized, Stevenson said in an interview.

"So while the Al Qaeda leadership has been weakened, the network as a whole has become more elusive than before," he said, adding that responsibility for planning and carrying out attacks rests more than ever with local groups.

Prevented from attacking Western countries, Al Qaeda- linked groups are turning their attention on "soft" targets in countries where they have some popular support, and where security is weak, such as Saudi Arabia and Morocco.

But Morocco said yesterday no connection had yet been established between Al Qaeda and last week's Casablanca attacks.

Stevenson believes Al Qaeda-linked groups will further focus future operations in the Persian Gulf region because of the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq.

And Garfield argued the more "preventive wars" the U.S. launches, the more Muslims will feel Al Qaeda is the only choice.

Garfield said this strategy has been used successfully by groups such as Hamas during the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The more Israel fights against Hamas suicide bombers by clamping down on the occupied Palestinian territories, the more ordinary Palestinians believe violence is the only alternative.

That means the U.S. must seriously work to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which fuels Arab anger throughout the Middle East and help alleviate poverty, he said.

That last part is the crux of the jihad against the West.

Al Queda was planning massive terrorist attacks before the Iraq war. The war certainly didn't change their desires.
Tell me, how many Muslims and/or Arabs supported Saddam's form of government? They didn't! The overthrow of Saddam will not make Muslims feel Al Qaeda is the only choice.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which fuels Arab anger, was partially instigated by Saddam himself! Now he's gone. And there has been a decrease in Palestinian suicide bombers since.
A Middle Eastern democracy will do more good in the long term than appeasing a thug dictator.

This article is another piece of garbage. You'll have to do better than that.
 

FrodoB

Senior member
Apr 5, 2001
299
0
0
We better change our foreign policy so we can appease a survey sample of citizens from 9 different countries!!! Lefty logic!!!
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Originally posted by: chess9
I doubt it because he is no Howard Dean, who is probably the best Presidential candidate since McCain. Too bad for the country...on both counts.

Dean....rotflmao.....too much...chess you gotta be kidding
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: FrodoB

Al Queda was planning massive terrorist attacks before the Iraq war. The war certainly didn't change their desires.
Tell me, how many Muslims and/or Arabs supported Saddam's form of government? They didn't! The overthrow of Saddam will not make Muslims feel Al Qaeda is the only choice.
It doesn't matter if the Arab nations supported Saddam's secular style of government. The radical Islamists will rally more behind Al Qaeda due to the U.S. military presence in Iraq and their view of our intrusion into their land (much as the U.S. viewed the encroachment of Communism.) Al Qaeda is not letting up and will not go away.


The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which fuels Arab anger, was partially instigated by Saddam himself! Now he's gone. And there has been a decrease in Palestinian suicide bombers since.
Say what?

Mar 30, 2003 - Over 40 people were wounded in a suicide bombing on the pedestrian mall at the entrance to the London Cafe in the center of Netanya. The bomber was killed. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Apr 24, 2003 - Alexander Kostyuk, a 23-year-old security guard from Bat Yam, was killed and 13 were wounded, two seriously, in a suicide bombing outside the train station in Kfar Sava. Groups related to the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and the PFLP clamied joint responsibility for the attack.

Apr 30, 2003/a> - Three people were killed and about 60 peoople were wounded when a suicide bomber blew himself up< at a beachfront pub "Mike's Place" in Tel Aviv. The Fatah Tanzim and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack, carried out as a joint operation. Investigation revealed that the two British Muslims involved in the suicide bombing were dispatched to perpetrate the attack by the Hamas military command in the Gaza Strip.

May 17, 2003 - Gadi Levy and his wife Dina, aged 31 and 37, of Kiryat Arba were killed by a suicide bomber in Hebron. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

May 18, 2003 - Seven people were killed and 20 wounded in a suicide bombing on Egged bus no. 6 near French Hill in Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.
A second suicide bomber detonated his bomb when intercepted by police in northern Jerusalem. The terrorist was killed; no one else was injured.

May 19, 2003 - Three IDF soldiers were lightly injured when a Palestinian on a bicycle detonated explosives next to a military jeep near Kfar Darom in the southern Gaza Strip. The bomber was killed. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

May 19, 2003 - Three people were killed and about 70 wounded in a suicide bombing at the entrance to the Amakim Mall in Afula. The Islamic Jihad and the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades both claimed responsibility for the attack.

May 22, 2003 - Nine Israelis were injured when a roadside bomb was detonated next to a bus near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip.

June 11, 2003 - Seventeen people were killed and over 100 wounded in a suicide bombing on Egged bus #14A outside the Clal building on Jaffa Road in the center of Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

June 19, 2003 - Avner Mordechai, 58, of Moshav Sde Trumot, was killed when a suicide bomber blew up in his grocery on Sde Trumot, south of Beit Shean. The suicide bomber was killed. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

July 7, 2003 - Mazal Afari, 65, of Moshav Kfar Yavetz was killed in her home on Monday evening and three of her grandchildren lightly wounded in a terrorist suicide bombing. The remains of the bomber were also found in the wreckage of the house. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Aug 12, 2003 - Erez Hershkovitz, 18, of Eilon Moreh, was killed and three people wounded when a teenaged Palestinian suicide bomber detonated himself at a bus stop outside Ariel. Amatzia Nisanevitch, 22, of Nofim, died of his wounds on August 28.

Aug 19, 2003 - Twenty-three people were killed and over 130 wounded when a Palestinian suicide bomber detonated himself on a No. 2 Egged bus in Jerusalem's Shmuel Hanavi neighborhood. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Sept 9, 2003s - Nine IDF soldiers were killed and 30 people were wounded in a suicide bombing at a hitchhiking post for soldier outside a main entrance to the Tzrifin army base and Assaf Harofeh Hospital. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Sept 9, 2003 - Seven people were killed and over 50 wounded in a suicide bombing at Cafe Hillel on Emek Refaim St., the main thoroughfare of the German Colony neighborhood in Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 4, 2003 - Twenty-one people were killed, including four children, and 60 wounded in a suicide bombing carried out by a female terrorist from Jenin in the Maxim restaurant in Haifa. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 9, 2003 - A Palestinian suicide bomber exploded himself at the DCO located at the entrance to Tulkarm. The bomber approached the reception window and exploded himself, injuring two IDF soldiers and a Palestinian.

Oct 15, 2003 - Three Americans were killed and one wounded at the Beit Hanoun junction in the Gaza Strip when a massive bomb demolished an armor-plated jeep in a convoy carrying U.S. diplomats.

Nov 3, 2003 - A suicide bomber blew himself up in the West Bank village of Azun, near Kafr Qasem, when he saw Israeli security officials searching for him. One IDF soldier was lightly wounded. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claimed responsibility for the failed attack.

Dec 25, 2003 - Four Israelis were killed and over 20 wounded in a suicide bombing at a bus stop at the Geha Junction, east of Tel Aviv, near Petah Tikva. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attack.

Jan 14, 2004 - Four Israelis - three soldiers and one civilian - were killed and 10 wounded when a female suicide bomber detonated a bomb at the Erez Crossing in the Gaza Strip. Hamas and the Fatah Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed joint responsibility for the attack.

Jan 29, 2004 - Eleven people were killed and over 50 wounded, 13 of them seriously, in a suicide bombing of an Egged bus no. 19 at the corner of Gaza and Arlozorov streets in Jerusalem. Both the Fatah-related Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack, naming the bomber as Ali Yusuf Jaara, a 24-year-old Palestinian policeman from Bethlehem.

Feb 22, 2004 - Eight people were killed and over 60 wounded, 11 of them school pupils, in a suicide bombing on a No. 14A Jerusalem bus near the Liberty Bell Park. The Fatah Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack, which was carried out by Mohammed Za'ul, from the Bethlehem area.

Mar 6, 2004 - Two Palestinian policemen were killed in a terror attack on the Erez crossing in northern Gaza involving rifle fire and suicide car bombs, including jeeps camouflaged as IDF vehicles. Two of the vehicles exploded on the Palestinian side of the crossing, and four terrorists were killed. There were no IDF casualties. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the military wing of Fatah all claimed responsibility.

Mar 14, 2004 - Ten people were killed and 16 wounded in a double suicide bombing at Ashdod Port. Hamas and Fatah claimed responsibility for the attack.


*That's* a decrease??  You're a fool.


A Middle Eastern democracy will do more good in the long term than appeasing a thug dictator.
May be. But the way it was introduced has done MUCH harm and that is undeniable.


This article is another piece of garbage. You'll have to do better than that.
I don't have to do better. Your opinion is worthless.

 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: FrodoBAl Queda was planning massive terrorist attacks before the Iraq war. The war certainly didn't change their desires.
Tell me, how many Muslims and/or Arabs supported Saddam's form of government? They didn't! The overthrow of Saddam will not make Muslims feel Al Qaeda is the only choice.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which fuels Arab anger, was partially instigated by Saddam himself! Now he's gone. And there has been a decrease in Palestinian suicide bombers since.
A Middle Eastern democracy will do more good in the long term than appeasing a thug dictator.

This article is another piece of garbage. You'll have to do better than that.
yeah there has been a drop in suicide bombings, mostly because of the wall and not because of saddam. But regardless of that, the Arab world doesnt care much about suicide bombings against israel, they care much more about Israeli oppression on the palestinians, which hasnt decresed since saddams fall, more that it has increased if anything.
http://mepc.org/public_asp/resources/mrates.asp


 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: Witling
Etech, your entire message and the time stamp appears below. Just roll back through this thread until you get to the right time. Should that prove to challenging for you, you said that in the third post to this thread. Does this mean you'll STFU? As they often say on this board, are you on drugs?

03/16/2004 3:47 PM (NEW!)


It does appear that Al Queda is winning.

I'm sure they appreciate your support.


Wow, you pointed to the orginal post that you were refering to in the same thread. That makes it "EVERY" time.

You lost the challenge.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
Etech, when you originally said, "It does appear that Al Queda is winning. I'm sure they appreciate your support."

I posted in response, "This kind of stupid statement by Etech comes out every time we have a national disagreement about policy."

You wittily responded, "Find the post where I said that statement before. If you can't, STFU."

I pointed out that you had made the statement in the third post to this thread.

you responded, "Wow, you pointed to the orginal post that you were refering to in the same thread. That makes it "EVERY" time."

You're right, you win. The sentence I wrote was ambiguous (2nd ¶ of this post). I didn't mean I was talking about the specific stupid statement that you made, which is one possible interpretation of what I wrote. It would have been better if I had said, "The type of stupid statement made by Etech is advanced by morons of that stripe whenever the issue of blindly supporting the United States in an armed conflict comes up. My country, right or wrong." I didn't mean to call you stupid on a personal level. I meant to say that people who make those kind of remarks are stupid.

I stand corrected and defer to your wining argument about my original observation. I'll try to write more clearly in the future.