Pew study debunks morality claim as primary voter motivation

[TastesLikeChicken]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne...pr/voters_moral_values

By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - This presidential election has been described by many as one in which morality mattered most to voters. But that perception may be driven at least partially by how pollsters asked voters about their priority issues.


Whether voters named "moral values" their key issue partly depended on whether that subject was included in a list of choices provided by pollsters, according to a Pew Research Center analysis released Thursday.


When "moral values" was included in poll questions, it was named more often than any other issue. But when voters were just asked to name the issue most important in their vote for president ? without being given a list of answers ? moral values trailed the war in Iraq (news - web sites) and the economy, according to the Pew survey.


"The advantage of the open-ended question is it tells you what's at the top of mind for voters ? what they're thinking," said Cliff Zukin, a veteran pollster and professor of public policy at Rutgers University. "Much too much has been made of the moral values answer."


Many Christian conservatives have sought to portray the election as validation for their emphasis on morality and the reason for President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election. While it's true voters who picked Bush were more apt to cite morality as the reason, political analyst Thomas Mann said it's too simplistic to say that issue determined the winner.


"It's a big mistake to say it's all a function of religious conservatives being motivated," said Mann, of the Brookings Institution. But, he added, "To say it wasn't a factor is just as foolish."


In exit polls conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International, "moral values" was one of seven items in a question that asked, "Which one issue mattered most in deciding how you voted for president." The other issues were taxes, education, Iraq, terrorism, economy/jobs, and health care.


Twenty-two percent chose "moral values," followed by the economy (20 percent), terrorism (19 percent) and Iraq (15 percent), according to the polls, which surveyed more than 13,600 voters and were conducted for The Associated Press and the major television networks.


The Pew Research Center polled 1,209 voters who said they cast ballots in the 2004 presidential election. When those voters were given a list, "moral values" was the most popular choice at 27 percent, followed by Iraq at 22 percent and the economy at 21 percent.


But when they were asked an open-ended question about the top issue, Iraq and the economy moved past moral values. Iraq was picked by 27 percent, the economy by 14 percent and moral values tied with terrorism at 9 percent.


"Moral values was an element in the Bush formula, but probably not the driving one," said Lee Miringoff, president of the National Council of Public Polls.


The Pew poll found that voters' reasons for picking "moral values" varies. Just over four in 10 of those who picked "moral values" from the list mentioned social issues like gay marriage and abortion, but others talked about qualities like religion, helping the poor, and candidates' honesty and strength of leadership.


"We did not see any indication that social conservative issues like abortion, gay rights and stem cell research were anywhere near as important as the economy and Iraq," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "'Moral values' is a phrase that's very attractive to people."


The Pew survey was taken Nov. 5-8 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

 

[Red Dawn]

The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Groups overestimating their influence amongst the overall population has been quite a trend this year, don't you think?

 

[Kibbo]

Not that surprising to me.

Someone here posted a stat that claimed there were 70 million evangelicals in the US, and that only 32 mill of them voted in '00. Right there, I thought the Dems had other problems.

 

[imported_Condor]

I think that LLL's get very confused when they try to differentiate between moral values and character. Character in a President is crucial. I could care less if he ever enters a church. As a matter of fact, most ministers I have delt with would get rather low scores on character. Character means that you will stand up for what you do with resolution. That means predictable behavior. Much like McDonalds hamburgers, it isn't the taste or quality, but the predictability that we voted for. Kerry just didn't have that.

 

[skace]

religion, helping the poor, and candidates' honesty and strength of leadership

hmmmm.... NNAAAHH

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne...pr/voters_moral_values

By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - This presidential election has been described by many as one in which morality mattered most to voters. But that perception may be driven at least partially by how pollsters asked voters about their priority issues.


Whether voters named "moral values" their key issue partly depended on whether that subject was included in a list of choices provided by pollsters, according to a Pew Research Center analysis released Thursday.


When "moral values" was included in poll questions, it was named more often than any other issue. But when voters were just asked to name the issue most important in their vote for president ? without being given a list of answers ? moral values trailed the war in Iraq (news - web sites) and the economy, according to the Pew survey.


"The advantage of the open-ended question is it tells you what's at the top of mind for voters ? what they're thinking," said Cliff Zukin, a veteran pollster and professor of public policy at Rutgers University. "Much too much has been made of the moral values answer."


Many Christian conservatives have sought to portray the election as validation for their emphasis on morality and the reason for President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election. While it's true voters who picked Bush were more apt to cite morality as the reason, political analyst Thomas Mann said it's too simplistic to say that issue determined the winner.


"It's a big mistake to say it's all a function of religious conservatives being motivated," said Mann, of the Brookings Institution. But, he added, "To say it wasn't a factor is just as foolish."


In exit polls conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International, "moral values" was one of seven items in a question that asked, "Which one issue mattered most in deciding how you voted for president." The other issues were taxes, education, Iraq, terrorism, economy/jobs, and health care.


Twenty-two percent chose "moral values," followed by the economy (20 percent), terrorism (19 percent) and Iraq (15 percent), according to the polls, which surveyed more than 13,600 voters and were conducted for The Associated Press and the major television networks.


The Pew Research Center polled 1,209 voters who said they cast ballots in the 2004 presidential election. When those voters were given a list, "moral values" was the most popular choice at 27 percent, followed by Iraq at 22 percent and the economy at 21 percent.


But when they were asked an open-ended question about the top issue, Iraq and the economy moved past moral values. Iraq was picked by 27 percent, the economy by 14 percent and moral values tied with terrorism at 9 percent.


"Moral values was an element in the Bush formula, but probably not the driving one," said Lee Miringoff, president of the National Council of Public Polls.


The Pew poll found that voters' reasons for picking "moral values" varies. Just over four in 10 of those who picked "moral values" from the list mentioned social issues like gay marriage and abortion, but others talked about qualities like religion, helping the poor, and candidates' honesty and strength of leadership.


"We did not see any indication that social conservative issues like abortion, gay rights and stem cell research were anywhere near as important as the economy and Iraq," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "'Moral values' is a phrase that's very attractive to people."


The Pew survey was taken Nov. 5-8 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

"candidates' honesty and strength of leadership" says it all! It isn't about morality, but it is about character.

 

[Caminetto]

As someone living in Ohio I believe that it was the incredible incessant stream of anti-Kerry propaganda rather than any evangelical/fundamental movement, although some of that ideology was present. Believe me, that intense pounding stream was successful in demonizing Kerry - and drove people to the polls.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Finally, some exit poll data that doesn't have it's head up it's ass...

 

[GrGr]

Does this study debunk morality as the primary voter motivation for the Evangelicals?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Actually I doubt that -- moreso the people that said "OMG WE LOST CAUSE OF THE RED STATERS."

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: GrGr
Does this study debunk morality as the primary voter motivation for the Evangelicals?

I suspect that is a fairly accurate statement, however, it's dangerous to break down subsets into subsets & guess that they would not have been as motivated to vote by the 2nd or 3rd factors on the list.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Could you pleASe post a link giving the % of actual fundamentalists that voted for Bush or is this just something you are going to continue to pull out of your arse everytime someone mentions the election?

Hell, I heard Pelosi quoting passage and verse a few days ago, Jackson spews his crap all the time and Sharptons out there. 63% of dems claim to be religious yet somehow its the fundies that swayed the vote.

Your turning into a conjur. :-(

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Could you pleASe post a link giving the % of actual fundamentalists that voted for Bush or is this just something you are going to continue to pull out of your arse everytime someone mentions the election?

Hell, I heard Pelosi quoting passage and verse a few days ago, Jackson spews his crap all the time and Sharptons out there. 63% of dems claim to be religious yet somehow its the fundies that swayed the vote.

Your turning into a conjur. :-(

Just ignore them. They needed a whipping boy after the election and fundies were the best target for spewing vitriol at. When you're licking such deep wounds you need something to spit at to get the taste of blood out of your mouth.

 

[cwjerome]

There's a problem here... a false dichotomy. Trying to split "issues" away from morality is impossible. This is why I think people choose moral values when it was a choice, but didn't choose it as much when they had to name the issue most important to them. It's how people frame the questions, and I think it shows people are instinctively correct. Morality is the overriding factor in any choice, action, or thought. It's our implicit appraisal of life: what is valued and what is good. This serves as the fundamental core from which our opinions are derived from.

EVERY issue is born of morality. The Iraq war, economic policies, abortion, Supreme Court nominations -everything- can be reduced to its moral foundation. Morality is underestimated and misunderstood- people may see various "issues" as important, but most intuitively realize that ALL issues are a corollary and consequence of their basic morality. Morality comes first. What an individual has determined to be good is a function of their morality and colors their every position, even if it's subconscious.

Those on the Religious Right know this, but can be extreme in deriving much of their morality from religion. But those on the far Left are just as extreme- they just don't derive theirs from religion, AND they deny the fact that morality is even relevant... a huge philosophical evasion.

 

[Chadder007]

I live here in Georgia....the most common reason I have heard for voting for Bush is... "I don't trust Kerry"
I haven't heard even one person say it was because of the gay issue.

 

[Moonbeam]

The reason that Kerry lost is because the system prevents people from discovering and understanding what is truly in their best interest. They are taught only what's best for money. They were unable to learn that they the country would have been better off with Kerry as President than with Bush. Cynical people, at great expense and tremendous research into manipulation, have made their values yours. There is no prison like the invisible prison you willingly yet unwittingly walk into. Remember that when they say the devil quotes scripture, that devil is you. Internalized evil goes by the name of good.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Could you pleASe post a link giving the % of actual fundamentalists that voted for Bush or is this just something you are going to continue to pull out of your arse everytime someone mentions the election?

Hell, I heard Pelosi quoting passage and verse a few days ago, Jackson spews his crap all the time and Sharptons out there. 63% of dems claim to be religious yet somehow its the fundies that swayed the vote.

Your turning into a conjur. :-(

Sidney Blumenthal has an interesting analysis

...

The 2004 election marks the rise of a quasi-clerical party for the first time in the United States. Ecclesiastical organisation has become the sinew and muscle of the Republican party, essential in George Bush's re-election. His narrow margins in the key states of Florida, Iowa and Ohio, and elsewhere, were dependent on the direct imposition of the churches. None of this occurred suddenly or by happenstance. For years, Bush has schooled himself in the machinations of the religious right.
Bush's clerisy is an unprecedented alliance of historically anti-Catholic nativist evangelical Protestants with the most reactionary elements of the Catholic hierarchy. Preacher, priest and politician have combined on the grounds that John Kennedy disputed in his famous speech before the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in September 1960. Kennedy's every principle is flouted and contradicted by Bush: "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute; where no Catholic prelate would tell the president - should he be Catholic - how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. ... where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials..."

From the White House, Karl Rove held a weekly conference call with religious leaders. Evangelical churches handed over membership directories to the Bush campaign for voter registration drives. A group associated with the Rev Pat Robertson advised 45,000 churches how to work for Bush. One popular preacher alone sent letters to 136,000 pastors advising them on "non-negotiable" issues - gay marriage, stem cell research, abortion - to mobilise the faithful. Perhaps the most influential figure of all was the Rev James Dobson, whose programmes broadcast daily on more than 3,000 radio stations and 80 TV stations, and whose organisation has affiliates in 36 states.

On June 4, Bush travelled to see the Pope. In another meeting that day, with Vatican secretary of state Cardinal Angelo Sodano, according to a Vatican official, Bush "complained that the US bishops were not being vocal enough in supporting [Bush] on social issues like gay marriage, and abortion," and remonstrated with Sodano that the Vatican "push the bishops".

The Vatican was astonished at the brazen pressure and did not accede. None the less, more than 40 conservative bishops worked with the Bush campaign against John Kerry - part of a crusade against their own declining moral authority.

The American church is in crisis, as Catholic opinion on abortion and stem cell research is no different than that of the general public. And the exposure of rampant paedophilia among priests has undermined traditional belief in the church's sanctity. Electing a liberal Catholic as president would have been a severe blow. So conservative bishops denounced Kerry, spoke of denying him communion, and even talked of ex-communication.

The Catholic Kerry received 5% less of the Catholic vote than the Southern Baptist Gore four years earlier. In the crucial state of Ohio, where an anti-gay marriage initiative was on the ballot, Bush won two-thirds of the "faithful" Catholic vote and 55% of the Catholic total. Combined with 79% of white evangelicals, this gave him his critical margin nationally and in the swing states.

The religious right is not a majority, but it was indispensable to Bush's victory. Across the country, it has become the most energetic, reliable and productive part of the Republican organisation. The worth of its values-based politics is power, just as it was worldly power that sustained the medieval church, and the assertion of that power began within days after the election.

When moderate Republican Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, chairman of the judiciary committee, said he would oppose any nominee to the supreme court who would seek to outlaw abortion - and one might come soon, as Chief Justice William Rehnquist is dying - the Rev Dobson said of Specter: "He is a problem and he must be derailed." Almost instantly, Specter clarified his position, announcing that he meant no such thing and that he had approved many judges who were against abortion.

The Guardian

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The reason that Kerry lost is because the system prevents people from discovering and understanding what is truly in their best interest. They are taught only what's best for money. They were unable to learn that they the country would have been better off with Kerry as President than with Bush. Cynical people, at great expense and tremendous research into manipulation, have made their values yours. There is no prison like the invisible prison you willingly yet unwittingly walk into. Remember that when they say the devil quotes scripture, that devil is you. Internalized evil goes by the name of good.

Kerry's problem was that he talks like you so few understood where he was coming from and those that did understand were absolutely sure he was fos.

 

[NeoV]

Blumenthal's piece is excellent...

How can any of your Bush backers really make a clear distinction here? "I told you it wasn't morality - it's all about character!" That's like different shades of the same color.

The fact of the matter is that a great many people who voted for Bush didn't vote on the issues or on this administration's performance - which was exactly what his reelection strategy was all about - I started two wars, I'll keep you safer, and Kerry is a flip-flopper/poor senate record. The Church influence was huge - those 40 Bishops influenced how many parrishes to back Bush?

 

[cwjerome]

There is no such pure evil and disaster than that embodied by moonbeam's fanciful anti-concepts and incoherent neo-new-age ramblings. Horrible stuff meant to sink man into oblivion.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Could you pleASe post a link giving the % of actual fundamentalists that voted for Bush or is this just something you are going to continue to pull out of your arse everytime someone mentions the election?

Hell, I heard Pelosi quoting passage and verse a few days ago, Jackson spews his crap all the time and Sharptons out there. 63% of dems claim to be religious yet somehow its the fundies that swayed the vote.

Your turning into a conjur. :-(

I doubt that but I see a lot of Crimson in your posts.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Could you pleASe post a link giving the % of actual fundamentalists that voted for Bush or is this just something you are going to continue to pull out of your arse everytime someone mentions the election?

Hell, I heard Pelosi quoting passage and verse a few days ago, Jackson spews his crap all the time and Sharptons out there. 63% of dems claim to be religious yet somehow its the fundies that swayed the vote.

Your turning into a conjur. :-(

I doubt that but I see a lot of Crimson in your posts.

Is that the same thing as seeing red?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The reason that Kerry lost is because the system prevents people from discovering and understanding what is truly in their best interest. They are taught only what's best for money. They were unable to learn that they the country would have been better off with Kerry as President than with Bush. Cynical people, at great expense and tremendous research into manipulation, have made their values yours. There is no prison like the invisible prison you willingly yet unwittingly walk into. Remember that when they say the devil quotes scripture, that devil is you. Internalized evil goes by the name of good.

Kerry's problem was that he talks like you so few understood where he was coming from and those that did understand were absolutely sure he was fos.

You suffer the typical prisoner's fear of freedom, "Anybody who knows anything I don't has got to be fos. I myself couldn't possibly be full of sh!t"

I said the prison was invisible and you thought you saw what I mean. You need to be upside down to the upside down to see.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Fund A Mental Cases are going to be pissed to hear this.

Could you pleASe post a link giving the % of actual fundamentalists that voted for Bush or is this just something you are going to continue to pull out of your arse everytime someone mentions the election?

Hell, I heard Pelosi quoting passage and verse a few days ago, Jackson spews his crap all the time and Sharptons out there. 63% of dems claim to be religious yet somehow its the fundies that swayed the vote.

Your turning into a conjur. :-(

I doubt that but I see a lot of Crimson in your posts.

Is that the same thing as seeing red?

Yeah like 1 week a month!