Petroleum Scorched Earth.

[techs]

http://hnn.us/articles/11802.html
http://www.bbsradio.com/cgi-bi...g.pl/noframes/read/293
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05...c=rss&pagewanted=print
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002678.html


The short version from these links:
Saudi Arabia has rigged their oil fields and petroleum facilities with "dirty bombs" to irradiate them if attacked.
And the explosives they used is a type of plastic explosive that is now only produced with a certain chemical that makes it detectable by smell so it can be detected by dogs and machines. They bough the last batch made before the international treaty (which so far has 100 percent compliance) when into effect. However, the plastic explosive has a limited shelf life, and some time after 2010 it will expire and no longer be reliable.

 

[blackangst1]

heh

 

[RichardE]

Whose threatening Suadi?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Whose threatening Suadi?

I dont think anyone is. If you read the article it states this tidbit was picked up by the NSA inadvertantly in 1985, in response to the US's sabre rattling at Saudi after the 70's oil embargo. I dont think any country would think they could defeat them. After all, it IS the king of terrorist states.

 

[StageLeft]

That sounds like total BS to me. I have not read the links, but it sounds a bit far-fetched. Also silly; why eradicate the only thing that is worth anything to you? it woudl be like killing your kid to save him getting kidnapped.

EDIT: BTW at least two links are from 05.

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That sounds like total BS to me. I have not read the links, but it sounds a bit far-fetched. Also silly; why eradicate the only thing that is worth anything to you? it woudl be like killing your kid to save him getting kidnapped.

EDIT: BTW at least two links are from 05.

no, that's more like taking the ball and go home. if we're no going to have the oil, you can't have it either.

at least with a kidnapped kid, you might get him back.

check Cut off your nose to spite your face.... well i guess it's pretty close.

 

[XZeroII]

...


sorry, I thought this was about a great DOS game from way back when.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
...


sorry, I thought this was about a great DOS game from way back when.

ROFL!

Afterall, this IS a tech forum hehe

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That sounds like total BS to me. I have not read the links, but it sounds a bit far-fetched. Also silly; why eradicate the only thing that is worth anything to you? it woudl be like killing your kid to save him getting kidnapped.

EDIT: BTW at least two links are from 05.

Yes, it has been around a while. And more and more evidence supports it. Both the US and Israelis have picked up on it. The Saudis have apparently communicated it to them because like the doomsday device in FailSafe it doesn't work unless your enemy knows about it.
And try googling PSE or Petroleum Scorched Earth.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...R2005052601317_pf.html

Saudi Arabia has wired all of its major oil facilities with interlocking Semtex explosive charges that can be detonated from a single control point. Moreover, he says, the Saudis have blended radioactive materials into the Semtex so that detonation would not only destroy the facilities but also contaminate them beyond repair.

Why would the Saudis set off what's essentially a networked dirty bomb over their oil infrastructure? Because, according to Posner, they want to make certain that nobody could benefit from invading their country or taking down the ruling House of Saud. If the al Saud family goes, Posner writes, the world's petroleum-based economy goes with it.

Posner, the muckraking author of nine previous books, acknowledges that he cannot be sure this story is true. And indeed a Saudi official has questioned the credibility of the allegations. Posner attributes the story to conversations among Saudi officials intercepted by the National Security Agency and Israeli intelligence and compiled by the NSA into a file called "Petro SE" -- for "Petroleum Scorched Earth." It is possible, he concedes, that the Saudis knew their conversations were being overheard and concocted the doomsday scenario to ensure that the United States would come to their aid in a crisis. "What better incentive for Western powers, particularly the United States, to come to the aid of the House of Saud if it were under external or internal attack," Posner writes, "than to think that if it fell, like the shah of Iran did a quarter century ago, they would take the energy infrastructure of Saudi Arabia with them" and cause worldwide chaos?

The wealth of detail in Posner's account gives it an air of credibility. Moreover, Saudi Arabia does have a Nuclear Energy Research Institute, with scientists who are familiar with radioactive materials such as cesium that could be used in dirty bombs. Because (according to U.S. intelligence reports) the kingdom financed the development of nuclear weapons by Pakistan, it would have had access to nuclear material, if only through the clandestine network of Pakistani nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan. And while Saudi Arabia is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, it has never agreed to an international inspection protocol.

 

[nodak8]

Originally posted by: techs


Yes, it has been around a while. And more and more evidence supports it. Both the US and Israelis have picked up on it. The Saudis have apparently communicated it to them because like the doomsday device in FailSafe it doesn't work unless your enemy knows about it.

The doomsday device was actually Dr. Strangelove, not Fail-Safe.

 

[MadRat]

Could you imagine how fast militaries around the world would mobilize if Saudi's oil was suddenly capitulated? It would be on the scale of Revelations. The world would be fighting over their respective sovereignties, keeping an oil supply in order to keep their societies intact. It made me think of the movie Mad Max for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I think the book of Revelations is past history. Some people might think I believe its the future with a comment like that.

 

[StageLeft]

If this idea has been around for so long and we still cannot be sure and Saudi arabia hasn't announced it, what could the point be since, as mentioned above, it's only useful if people know about it? I simply don't buy it.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
If this idea has been around for so long and we still cannot be sure and Saudi arabia hasn't announced it, what could the point be since, as mentioned above, it's only useful if people know about it? I simply don't buy it.

It only needs to be announced to governments not the public.
And, yeah, Dr. Strangelove. Got my movies mixed up nodak8, thanks.

 

[K1052]

I don't think anyone has serious designs on that pile of trouble.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
If this idea has been around for so long and we still cannot be sure and Saudi arabia hasn't announced it, what could the point be since, as mentioned above, it's only useful if people know about it? I simply don't buy it.

I disagree. I think NOT announcing it is a better plan. Therefore, anyone foolish enough to try and invade would take that into consideration in their invasion plans, should they know. For example, if I had real estate that I wanted protected from invaders (for lack of better terms), if I planted mines in my yard, I surely wouldnt announce it to anyone. If I had my house rigged to explode into oblivion should it be overtaken, I surely wouldnt announce it to anyone.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Skoorb
If this idea has been around for so long and we still cannot be sure and Saudi arabia hasn't announced it, what could the point be since, as mentioned above, it's only useful if people know about it? I simply don't buy it.

I disagree. I think NOT announcing it is a better plan. Therefore, anyone foolish enough to try and invade would take that into consideration in their invasion plans, should they know. For example, if I had real estate that I wanted protected from invaders (for lack of better terms), if I planted mines in my yard, I surely wouldnt announce it to anyone. If I had my house rigged to explode into oblivion should it be overtaken, I surely wouldnt announce it to anyone.

So then why do it? If you kill your oil, then you really have no chance of recovering it, should an invading force eventually be repelled. MAD can only work if the other party knows, and the same thing here.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Skoorb
If this idea has been around for so long and we still cannot be sure and Saudi arabia hasn't announced it, what could the point be since, as mentioned above, it's only useful if people know about it? I simply don't buy it.

I disagree. I think NOT announcing it is a better plan. Therefore, anyone foolish enough to try and invade would take that into consideration in their invasion plans, should they know. For example, if I had real estate that I wanted protected from invaders (for lack of better terms), if I planted mines in my yard, I surely wouldnt announce it to anyone. If I had my house rigged to explode into oblivion should it be overtaken, I surely wouldnt announce it to anyone.

So then why do it? If you kill your oil, then you really have no chance of recovering it, should an invading force eventually be repelled. MAD can only work if the other party knows, and the same thing here.

Again, it's the thinking of, if I cant have it, neither can you. Revenge after death can be a sweet thing, if planned. Using my example above, if I had a reason to be invaded, I'll be damned if anyone is going to forcably take it and rule over what is mine. I think this is what the Saudi's thinking is.

We can agree to disagree, thats fine. I dont think there is a right or wrong answer here. It's chatter about why the Saudi's would would do this.

 

[techs]

Think about it. You have something that everyone on earth wants. You have little chance to defend what you have militarily.
Your best option is to make what you have not worth taking. Hence, PSE.
It is completely logical. And I would say highly effective.
To quote Muad'dib: "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing"

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: techs
Think about it. You have something that everyone on earth wants. You have little chance to defend what you have militarily.
Your best option is to make what you have not worth taking. Hence, PSE.
It is completely logical. And I would say highly effective.
To quote Muad'dib: "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing"

Nobody in the region can take them on militarily and the larger countries either don't have the means or the interest.

Any foreign invasion into Saudi Arabia would also make the insurgency in Iraq look like a leisurely Sunday afternoon picnic in the park.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Pepsei

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That sounds like total BS to me. I have not read the links, but it sounds a bit far-fetched. Also silly; why eradicate the only thing that is worth anything to you? it woudl be like killing your kid to save him getting kidnapped.

EDIT: BTW at least two links are from 05.

no, that's more like taking the ball and go home. if we're no going to have the oil, you can't have it either.

at least with a kidnapped kid, you might get him back.

check Cut off your nose to spite your face.... well i guess it's pretty close.

More like throwing the baby out with the babyoil

 

[NeoV]

wouldn't being able to detonate that from a single-point make that the biggest terrorist target in the world?