Pertussis vaccine may not stop spread of disease

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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<not anti-vaccine thread>

Scientist have been wondering why so many vaccinated children have been developing whooping cough. They may have finally figured it out.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/11/26/whooping-cough-shot-prevents-illness-not-spread-disease/

Their research used baboons, considered the most human-like model for studying whooping cough. Baboons at ages 2, 4 and 6 months were vaccinated and then exposed to whooping cough at 7 months - when vaccine protection would be new and strong.

The baboons didn't get sick, but they had high levels of bacteria in their respiratory system for five weeks - which suggest they were contagious for about that long. Some baboons given the old vaccine had low levels after only two weeks.

Instead of getting sick, people become infectious and unknowingly spread the disease even though they are fully vaccinated.

The baboons carried the bacteria in their respiratory system for five weeks - that is a long time to be spreading the disease.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
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Interesting. It sure is a good thing nobody would be stupid enough not to get their kids vaccinated.

..................oh.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
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Glad I just updated my pertussis vaccine. Unfortunately it comes along with the tetanus vaccine which hurt like a damn bitch for like a week.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
106
Glad I just updated my pertussis vaccine. Unfortunately it comes along with the tetanus vaccine which hurt like a damn bitch for like a week.

Yea, my left arm was sore for 3 days after the tetanus shot from my chainsaw accident.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,875
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Glad I just updated my pertussis vaccine. Unfortunately it comes along with the tetanus vaccine which hurt like a damn bitch for like a week.

I just did a search to find out if the preparation method for tetanus had changed because I got it last week, no pain and no after effects at all. I was expecting misery.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
<not anti-vaccine thread>Scientist have been wondering why so many vaccinated children have been developing whooping cough. They may have finally figured it out.

Just because you say it's "not anti-vaccine thread" doesn't mean that it isn't. I.e., this isn't an insult: you're an idiot. See how that works?

You said, "scientist <sic> have been wondering why so many vaccinated children have been developing whooping cough." Where in this does it imply that:
The research suggests that while the vaccine may keep people from getting sick, it doesn't prevent them from spreading whooping cough - also known as pertussis - to others.

I submit that your history of arguing against the flu vaccine despite what research says, and now this, indicates that you do have some sort of motivation for posting all these vaccine threads. You should join the club with Incorruptible who, "I'm not anti Muslim, I just post a lot of threads to judge the billion Muslims by the actions of a very small minority."
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
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You said, "scientist <sic> have been wondering why so many vaccinated children have been developing whooping cough." Where in this does it imply that:

Have you been keeping up with the California outbreak of pertussis? Maybe the newborns who were dying? Maybe the fully vaccinated children who were getting sick? Doctors could not explain why record numbers of fully vaccinated children were getting sick.

Were you keeping up with any of that?

As for the flu vaccine, there is this little thing called civil rights, and the right to make decisions for ones on body. You being a teacher are used to telling, or yelling, at kids to sit down and shut up, and you having pretty much full control of impressionable young children.

Try as you may with your petty insults you will not change my mind that the government, nor a company, should have control of what goes into a persons body. I know you are used to controlling children. But this is the real world. Schools theory of absolute control does not work here.

When I cut my leg with a chainsaw, the first thing I got at the ER was a tetanus shot.

Your theory that I am an anti-vaccine nutter is invalid.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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You said, "scientist <sic> have been wondering why so many vaccinated children have been developing whooping cough."

That was fairly painfully obvious, but I know how these threads go. Now that the cat is out of the bag so to speak, I might a as well chime in.

The real significance of the article is that the time in which the causative organism may persist in the respiratory tract longer with the newer acellular vaccines, and that creates a potential reservoir for pertussis. Of course as you point out the patient does not get the disease, and the danger is hypothetical, as the primary source of transmission is due to the "whooping", not normal respiration.

Of course one ought to ask "where did it come from to begin with?" and the answer would be from people with the disease, those who managed to escape being vaccinated. Whooping cough rates follow rates of vaccination, and where it has decreased the disease increases and vice versa. The only way to keep people from being exposed to high levels of the bacteria is through vaccination. That the vaccine appears to have this characteristic in no way provides a reason for refusal. That's the real problem.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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And so it begins.

Have you been keeping up with the California outbreak of pertussis? Maybe the newborns who were dying? Maybe the fully vaccinated children who were getting sick? Doctors could not explain why record numbers of fully vaccinated children were getting sick.

Actually the reason isn't up for debate. It's because of this.

Try as you may with your petty insults you will not change my mind that the government, nor a company, should have control of what goes into a persons body. I know you are used to controlling children. But this is the real world. Schools theory of absolute control does not work here.

California allowed an exemption for "philosophical" reasons and the number of unvaccinated children tripled.

You claim the right not to get vaccinated as a matter of principle, and so threaten the lives of others. So be it. Anyone who has not been vaccinated for matters of principle shall not be allowed to associate with anyone unless they have not been vaccinated as well. That way the only ones they threaten are themselves. No Typhoid Marys in general circulation.
 
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
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You claim the right not to get vaccinated as a matter of principle, and so threaten the lives of others. So be it. Anyone who has not been vaccinated for matters of principle shall not be allowed to associate with anyone unless they have not been vaccinated as well. That way the only ones they threaten are themselves. No Typhoid Marys in general circulation.

I already know all of that.

I would rather this not turn into a vaccine / public health / civil rights thread.


California allowed an exemption for "philosophical" reasons and the number of unvaccinated children tripled.

This comment is relevant to the thread so lets debate it.

Number of unvaccinated children tripled?

I did a quick google search and found this - http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/immunize/Documents/2012-2013ChildCareAssessmentReport.pdf

4+DTP - 94.0%

Where do you get the number of unvaccinated children tripled?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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And so it begins.



Actually the reason isn't up for debate. It's because of this.



California allowed an exemption for "philosophical" reasons and the number of unvaccinated children tripled.

You claim the right not to get vaccinated as a matter of principle, and so threaten the lives of others. So be it. Anyone who has not been vaccinated for matters of principle shall not be allowed to associate with anyone unless they have not been vaccinated as well. That way the only ones they threaten are themselves. No Typhoid Marys in general circulation.

So do we use the One Ring when we know the science and others are ignorant of real facts that can kill them and others?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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So do we use the One Ring when we know the science and others are ignorant of real facts that can kill them and others?

Hayabusa Rider has yet to back up his statement that the number of unvaccinated children tripled.

Lets not jump to conclusions.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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So do we use the One Ring when we know the science and others are ignorant of real facts that can kill them and others?

Ahh, the One Ring. That's always an option. An interesting thing about it is that it always provided ability proportional to the one who bore it. In the hands of Frodo it could not destroy Middle Earth, but with Galadriel or Gandalf? Neither took it although it would have been an easy matter. Certainly if the Steward of Gondor had it he could have used it to protect his land. How would that have worked out? Not well I think.

Here's the thing. The One Ring represents power to rule over others, but it does not require that rule be be good or to the benefit of those who live under it. It does not need permission, nor will it heed counsel. It has all authority in itself.

Gondor needed the Ring. Aragorn needed to use it to defeat Sauron. Gandalf would have used it only for good. It was wanted, needed, it was required. Precious.

But it wasn't, was it? Ultimately Middle Earth withstood, not because it relied on the One Ring, but because it refused it. Here's the important thing. Because all hope was not invested in it did not mean there wasn't hope. Because its authority was not recognized does not mean authority was not present. Because its power was shunned does not mean power was not exercised.

So what is the difference? It's two paths. One is broad and easy, and the other narrow and difficult. The first leads to destruction, the second to salvation. That second is hard due to the very nature of what is required. Thought, wisdom, discernment. It requires awareness, requires participation beyond appeals to another authority, eternal vigilance.

Translating that into the modern world, the One Ring represents the surrender of ourselves to others without much required in return.

Those who think inside of the "government is good" box aren't any different from "the free market is good" one. Neither is good or bad. They are amoral entities. WE provide that moral compass, WE are (or ought to be) the masters of both.

Getting around to the point and how it relates to things like vaccination, there is a clear and present danger, determined by people who understand the subject intimately. The science isn't in doubt, and even that is subject to revision and inspection. Dogma isn't acceptable. We as a people have established authorities with powers over us and I recognize those as being valid so long as they are the servants and not the masters of our people AND they use their vast compelling resources with prudence and restraint to accomplish the necessary goals. That's a far cry from the One Ring, who slashes through to achieve what it wants.

So... what?

The threat has been determined to be real by those who have a clear understanding if the situation and it has been framed in proper context.

We have created a government to enable ourselves to function as a society, and part of that is to settle matters of competing rights. A person ought to have control over their actions but not to the point where those actions pose a serious threat to others. Turning oneself into what is effectively a bioweapon IMO is a significant hazard, therefore we must regrettably compel others to submit to the authority of government to protect ourselves from a far greater threat than the vaccination represents to the individuals sensibilities.

Note what we have here. We have a threat assessed by rational, competent and scientific minds which has been communicated to the public. We then use the tool of government to use it's power for a clear purpose based on that determined threat, then apply it in a positive way which is verifiable by those with the ability and means to monitor progress.

This IMO is an example of the proper use of our system and what I think is less like the One Ring than what ultimately was used in Tolkien's universe.