Personality Disorder

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
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Bob Woodruff reporting

ABC News
Questionable Treatment for Some Iraq Heroes
Veteran Care Under Review as More Than 22,000 Are Discharged With 'Pre-Existing' Personality Disorder, Which Some Say Developed During War
By BOB WOODRUFF, JAMES HILL, JAIME HENNESSEY and JOSHUA KORS

July 12, 2007 ?

Army Spc. Jonathan Town is back home in Ohio now, but still very much at war.

"When you see bits and pieces of actual people or people bleeding to death or anything, it's very unsettling. It's something you'll never be able to forget. Period," Town told ABC News' Bob Woodruff.

Since his discharge in 2006, Town has not only dealt with the emotional scars of war, but he has also found himself at the center of a national debate on mental health care for veterans as a crowd as diverse as singer Dave Matthews and members of Congress has questioned how 22,000 veterans were diagnosed and discharged since 2001.

In Town's case, the discharge came two years after he was injured in an attack. In the fall of 2004, a 107 mm rocket ripped through his unit's headquarters in Ramadi, exploding two feet above Town's head and knocking him unconscious.

The rocket blast left Town with hearing loss, headaches, memory problems, anxiety and insomnia. For his wounds, he was awarded the Purple Heart.

But when he returned to the states seeking treatment for those very wounds, the Army quickly discharged him, asserting his problems had been caused not by the war but by a personality disorder that predated his military career.

A Quick Way Out

It is known as a "Chapter 5-13"  "separation because of personality disorder." The Army defines it as a pre-existing "maladaptive pattern of behavior of long duration" that interferes with the soldier's ability to perform his duties.

In practical terms, this diagnosis means the personality disorder existed before military service, and therefore medical care and disability payments are not the military's responsibility. But some veterans and veterans' advocates have been vocal in their belief that personality disorder is being misdiagnosed in combat veterans.

"A significant percentage of the ones who are discharged with personality disorder truly have it, but there is another percentage that are put out simply to eliminate them from military service. & It's done maliciously or as some sort of a policy," said Russell K. Terry, founder of the veterans' advocacy organization, Iraq War Veterans Organization.

Since 2001, more than 22,000 servicemen and women from all branches of the military have been separated under the personality disorder discharge, according to figures provided by the Department of Defense.

The military explained the need for this kind of discharge. "Personality disorders that interfere with military service and are incompatible with the soldier staying in the unit, it is usually best for both the soldier and the unit for that soldier to be discharged," according to Col. Elspeth Cameron Ritchie, a psychiatry consultant to the U.S. Army surgeon general.

Servicemen and women undergo mental and physical screenings when they enter the military and again before they deploy. "Either the military didn't see it or they ignored it," Terry said.

"We do histories and physicals on every recruit that comes in, but people may not always tell us everything," Ritchie said.

Veterans' Perspective

Donald Louis Schmidt of Chillicothe, Ill., was being treated for posttraumatic stress disorder after his second combat tour in Iraq. His commanders at Fort Carson later decided he was no longer mentally fit and discharged him with personality disorder.

"They just slapped me with that label to get me out quicker," Schmidt said. He said superiors told him "'Everything will be great. Peachy keen.' Well, it's not."

The discharge left Schmidt ineligible for disability pay and benefits. He was also required to return more than $10,000 of his $15,000 reenlistment bonus, but he said no one explained that to him until it was too late.

"If I didn't have family, I'd be living on the sidewalk," Schmidt said.

"It's not right that they would do this to him after him going to war for us," Schmidt's mother, Patrice Semtner-Myers, said. "They threw him away. They're done with him. He's no use to them anymore so they say, 'We're done. & Thanks for nothing.'"

Schmidt and Town say Army doctors misled them about the consequences of the personality disorder discharge. Town said he was told he would receive his benefits and it would be like a medical discharge, only quicker.

In the course of reporting this story, ABC News spoke with 20 Iraq War veterans who believe they were misdiagnosed with personality disorder.

A Marine who preferred not to be named said, "Most docs won't diagnose you with PTSD [posttraumatic stress disorder] because the military has to treat you for the rest of your life."

After confrontations with his commander, Pfc. David Vann said a psychologist met with him for "10 minutes and said, 'I think you're lying about PTSD. & I think you have [personality disorder].'"

"If they cared about my well-being, they would have tried to fix it. The Army would rather & [sever] all the ties," Army Spc. William Wooldridge said.

The military would not comment on specific cases. Ritchi said, "If there was a mistake that was made, and we're a big organization, it is possible that mistakes were made, that we have the ability to go back and relook at that diagnosis and that discharge."

A Whistle-Blower

On the day he was discharged in the fall, Town met with Jeff Peskoff, a civilian employee in the personnel office at Fort Carson in Colorado, and learned he owed the Army $3,000 to repay his enlistment bonus.

"At some points it looked like he wanted to cry and at some point he looked like he wanted to rip my head off," Peskoff said.

Peskoff, who served 10 years in the Army, including a tour of Iraq, recently quit his job in disgust and is now speaking publicly for the first time.

"If you have a combat tour and you are getting labeled as a personality disorder, there is something wrong. &0133; It's a lie," Peskoff said. "It's a quick way to get rid of that body and bring in another body. And it's a quick way to save money."

In the span of several months, Peskoff said he processed the personality disorder discharges of Schmidt, Town and hundreds of other combat veterans he believed were actually suffering physical and psychological trauma because of the war.

"They [Army officials] are basically washing their hands of them," Peskoff said.

Fort Carson officials declined to talk to ABC News about this story. The Government Accountability Office is currently investigating Fort Carson as part of a larger study of mental health services for veterans.

Fanfare: Issue Hits Dave Matthews Concert

Some prominent people took notice of Town's case after he was profiled in a Nation article earlier this year. Musician Dave Matthews spoke about him at a concert this spring at Radio City Music Hall in New York.

"Fans at the show started talking about it among themselves and then they started collecting money to support Jon Town," Matthews said.

The Dave Matthews Band collected 23,000 signatures on its fan site for a letter requesting that Congress and the Department of Defense look into the personality disorder discharges.

"They're forever changed," Matthews said. "We should look after these kids."

Town's story also inspired 31 senators, including four presidential candidates, to write to Defense Secretary Robert Gates calling for an investigation into the military's use of the personality disorder discharge.

"We are concerned over continuing reports from veterans' services organizations, the media and individual U.S. service personnel that personality disorder discharges have been implemented inappropriately and inconsistently," the letter said.

Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., said, "We want to make this something that is widely understood and gain the momentum for necessary changes to the system."

Just today, six senators including Bond and Barack Obama, D- Illinois, introduced an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act that would temporarily suspend personality disorder discharges for combat veterans until there is a comprehensive review of the current procedures.

Gates and other Defense Department officials declined to speak to ABC News, saying the issue was under review by the veteran care commission headed by Democrat Donna Shalala and Republican Bob Dole.

After all the recent attention focused on Town, the Department of Veterans Affairs recently began treating him and paying disability benefits.

Matthews was asked whether his actions had helped Town. "I think the push, the publicness of the whole thing had some bearing on that, and if it did, it's great that it did. But there are still a lot of other soldiers that need to have the same attention paid on their behalf."

At home in central Illinois, Donald Schmidt is waiting.



Today I emailed both of my senators and my congressman, I encourage you to do the same. How embarrassing.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
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I have no idea where to begin on this one. But of course it ends with the commander in chief of the armed forces. Way to support the troops.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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Alot of things to comment on, but I will comment on something I know something about. There's no way to know by reading this, but if "Personality Disorder" is what the military classifies as "Borderline Personality Disorder", then the references to it are spot on. Studies have shown certain people ARE somewhat pre-disposed to this, based on past physical, psychological, or sexual trauma at a young age. This disorder is the in-between of bi-polar and multiple personality disorder, most often caused by the previous conditions. This topic could be a whole different thread, but from my knowledge this isnt such an evil diagnosis.
 

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
Alot of things to comment on, but I will comment on something I know something about. There's no way to know by reading this, but if "Personality Disorder" is what the military classifies as "Borderline Personality Disorder", then the references to it are spot on. Studies have shown certain people ARE somewhat pre-disposed to this, based on past physical, psychological, or sexual trauma at a young age. This disorder is the in-between of bi-polar and multiple personality disorder, most often caused by the previous conditions. This topic could be a whole different thread, but from my knowledge this isnt such an evil diagnosis.

22,000 times? With no pre-enlistment diagnosis?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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I wonder if we can separate GWB and Cheney from their jobs with a quick and easy personality disorder diagnosis. Surely it falls under the high crimes and misdemeanors.
Even of they were almost predestined.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
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Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Alot of things to comment on, but I will comment on something I know something about. There's no way to know by reading this, but if "Personality Disorder" is what the military classifies as "Borderline Personality Disorder", then the references to it are spot on. Studies have shown certain people ARE somewhat pre-disposed to this, based on past physical, psychological, or sexual trauma at a young age. This disorder is the in-between of bi-polar and multiple personality disorder, most often caused by the previous conditions. This topic could be a whole different thread, but from my knowledge this isnt such an evil diagnosis.

22,000 times? With no pre-enlistment diagnosis?

*shrug* Im sure of two things:
1. THis story has no where near the complete story, and
2. The possibility for shenanegans is high.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
Alot of things to comment on, but I will comment on something I know something about. There's no way to know by reading this, but if "Personality Disorder" is what the military classifies as "Borderline Personality Disorder", then the references to it are spot on. Studies have shown certain people ARE somewhat pre-disposed to this, based on past physical, psychological, or sexual trauma at a young age. This disorder is the in-between of bi-polar and multiple personality disorder, most often caused by the previous conditions. This topic could be a whole different thread, but from my knowledge this isnt such an evil diagnosis.

You are clearly not a military attorney or personnelist. The military classifies all kinds of psychological disorders as "personality disorders." Borderline personality disorder is just one of the innumerable personality disorders that can get a person administratively discharged. I actually had one defense client, a doctor, who was discharged for narcissistic personality disorder (and what a gigantic prick THAT guy was).

It is fairly unusual (though not unheard of) for people to make it past the first year or two in the service with a dischargeable personality disorder.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
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Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Alot of things to comment on, but I will comment on something I know something about. There's no way to know by reading this, but if "Personality Disorder" is what the military classifies as "Borderline Personality Disorder", then the references to it are spot on. Studies have shown certain people ARE somewhat pre-disposed to this, based on past physical, psychological, or sexual trauma at a young age. This disorder is the in-between of bi-polar and multiple personality disorder, most often caused by the previous conditions. This topic could be a whole different thread, but from my knowledge this isnt such an evil diagnosis.

You are clearly not a military attorney or personnelist. The military classifies all kinds of psychological disorders as "personality disorders." Borderline personality disorder is just one of the innumerable personality disorders that can get a person administratively discharged. I actually had one defense client, a doctor, who was discharged for narcissistic personality disorder (and what a gigantic prick THAT guy was).

It is fairly unusual (though not unheard of) for people to make it past the first year or two in the service with a dischargeable personality disorder.

Thus, I wrote "but ----->if<---- "Personality Disorder" is what the military classifies as "Borderline Personality Disorder", --->then,---"

I never claimed to know anything about military classifications, nor a personnelist. I clearly stated I made my comments based on something I *do* know something about.

Just so we're clear :)
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Gotta agree that Blackaginst1 has hit the nail on the head when he says-----2. The possibility for shenanegans is high.

Is liar or fraud a good catchall personality disorder for such military attorneys or personnelists----if it isn't---it should be.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
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The likely reason why the diagnosis of "personality disorder" is so popular is because it's considered akin to a developmental or congenital defect, for which VA benefits are NOT payable (see 38 CFR 3.303), unlike a recognized psychiatric diagnosis like PTSD. So kicking out a head case based on a "personality disorder" absolves the gov't of paying VA disability benefits for the remainder of the vet's life.

A few other things:

The entrance psychiatric exam is a joke - it's little more than this:
"Are you crazy?"
"No, doc!"
"You pass!"

Regarding shenanigans, yes, there is much abuse of the disability system by vets claiming psychiatric disability, because it's the easiest thing to fake and among the easiest disabilities to get a 100% rating ($2000+/month, tax-free, for life - it's a big temptation). I have personally seen, among other abuses, guys claiming to have PTSD due to combat in various wars, only to have their service records indicate they weren't even on the same CONTINENT as whatever war the US was fighting at the time. Unfortunately, these types bog down the system for vets who really do carry legit psychological scars from service. If I had people shooting at me on a daily basis for a year or more, I might have mental issues as well.
 

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
1,326
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Someone on Nightline a few days ago said it is expected that as many as 1/3 of returning combat vets will have some level of psychological trauma. We're going to pay for this war for the next 60 years. :(
 
May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Alot of things to comment on, but I will comment on something I know something about. There's no way to know by reading this, but if "Personality Disorder" is what the military classifies as "Borderline Personality Disorder", then the references to it are spot on. Studies have shown certain people ARE somewhat pre-disposed to this, based on past physical, psychological, or sexual trauma at a young age. This disorder is the in-between of bi-polar and multiple personality disorder, most often caused by the previous conditions. This topic could be a whole different thread, but from my knowledge this isnt such an evil diagnosis.

You are clearly not a military attorney or personnelist. The military classifies all kinds of psychological disorders as "personality disorders." Borderline personality disorder is just one of the innumerable personality disorders that can get a person administratively discharged. I actually had one defense client, a doctor, who was discharged for narcissistic personality disorder (and what a gigantic prick THAT guy was).

It is fairly unusual (though not unheard of) for people to make it past the first year or two in the service with a dischargeable personality disorder.

Which is fine, if this is in-line with the norm. In other words, show me statistics for the last 20 years on how many people are discharged this way, then show me current statistics...if the two match then everyone should back off the military. If this is a 'new trend' then the military should be raked over the coals, dissected with fine instruments, and have a king dong anal probe experience.

I'm betting that it's an excuse to remove people smart enough to know that what they're doing is wrong...or a way to get rid of everyone WITHOUT the mental disorders that allow them to support the actions of this administration. Seriously I'm thinking they're classifying lack of ignorant robotism as a personality disorder, or just trying to find a way to cut costs by getting rid of people without paying for them.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Someone on Nightline a few days ago said it is expected that as many as 1/3 of returning combat vets will have some level of psychological trauma. We're going to pay for this war for the next 60 years. :(

Count on it - heck, there are still over 100 widows and children of Spanish-American War (1898-1902) veterans on the VA C&P (compensation and pension) rolls! :shocked:
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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I worked for the VA for nearly 2 decades, you wouldn't believe some of the screwed up vets we're paying a 100% disability to that had pre existing psychiatric illnesses or simply fake it.

My favorite ones were the vets that decades later claimed they were such massive screw ups on their military service.

My favorite response from a VA shrink I heard was: "So you were in Vietnam for (insert length of in country time here) and it was such a pivotal experience that it colors your view of the world, has caused you to not be able to hold a job as a 7-11 clerk, drink every day, beat your wife & kids weekly, and screw your dog 40 years later?"

:laugh:

 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
12,010
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I developed a personality disorder from hearing Army Spc. Jonathan Town's story.