Perhaps the best idea for a website ever

[bamacre]

Story...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070206/wr_nm/internet_wikileaks_dc_1

"What conscience cannot contain, and institutional secrecy unjustly conceals, Wikileaks can broadcast to the world," reads the answer to one of its Frequently Asked Questions.

"Wikileaks will be the outlet for every government official, every bureaucrat, every corporate worker, who becomes privy to embarrassing information which the institution wants to hide but the public needs to know."

Will it work? Meh, hopefully. But if it does, will we react appropriately, or just hide the truth from ourselves? Personally, I wish them the best of luck. I have a feeling they'll need it.

 

[brownzilla786]

It would never work, the government would shut it down asap if they thought it contained any sensitive information...and rightly so

 

[ProfJohn]

I think we talked about this a while back.
It will become full of BS within a few days.
UFO, Bigfoot etc etc etc.

Hard to see how this turns into a workable site when people can post anonymous.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: brownzilla786
It would never work, the government would shut it down asap if they thought it contained any sensitive information...and rightly so

Rightly so, eh? Has it ever occurred to you (or anyone else) that the interests of the government are not always aligned with the interests of the people?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think we talked about this a while back.
It will become full of BS within a few days.
UFO, Bigfoot etc etc etc.

Hard to see how this turns into a workable site when people can post anonymous.

Agreed. This is fairly unnecessary in this country as well, as we have pretty good protection in the form of the first amendment that provides a much more reliable forum.

However, in countries with less legal protections, or if our own legal protections stop being quite so effective, this might be the best solution. After all, while anonymity has its drawbacks, it's virtually the only solution when the government puts "dissidents" in prison.

 

[Balt]

It will most likely be full of lame 9/11 conspiracy theories and fake moon landing crap.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: brownzilla786
It would never work, the government would shut it down asap if they thought it contained any sensitive information...and rightly so

Rightly so, eh? Has it ever occurred to you (or anyone else) that the interests of the government are not always aligned with the interests of the people?

Yes, rightly so.

Has it ever occured to you that alot of intel if made public would hurt us? Did the thought of anti-America people reading the sight to gain an edge ever occur to you? Come on man...not EVERYTHING our military does should be made available for public scrutiny. Afterall, neither you nor I are even remotely qualified to decifer it all.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think we talked about this a while back.
It will become full of BS within a few days.
UFO, Bigfoot etc etc etc.

Hard to see how this turns into a workable site when people can post anonymous.

So what if there is a page or two hundred on BS. People who wish to post real secerts will create a new page and it will not have the BS. Sure it might be hard for the average person to know if any one article is true, but I don't think that is the point. It could give people the details needed to confirm or reject any claim made.

I don't think the site will work because it people can either leak information to reporters, who can then refuse to give up the source of the information, or it will just be behind the great firewall of china.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: brownzilla786
It would never work, the government would shut it down asap if they thought it contained any sensitive information...and rightly so

Rightly so, eh? Has it ever occurred to you (or anyone else) that the interests of the government are not always aligned with the interests of the people?

Yes, rightly so.

Has it ever occured to you that alot of intel if made public would hurt us? Did the thought of anti-America people reading the sight to gain an edge ever occur to you? Come on man...not EVERYTHING our military does should be made available for public scrutiny. Afterall, neither you nor I are even remotely qualified to decifer it all.

QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

 

[OrByte]

not everything this government or administration does revolves around the military. Nixon was brought to his knees over political shannigans.

But, I still wouldn't trust a website as being totally anonymous. I guess I just have my tin foil hat on too tight. Plus, this is what we have our media and journalists for, AND how would any of the evidence posted be validated?

We just need journalism to get back to reporting and investigating like they used to before cable news networks showed up.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

If our government is doing something wrong ( :laugh: ) don't you want to know about it?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

If our government is doing something wrong ( :laugh: ) don't you want to know about it?

yes, I would; but i would never condone the leak of classified information just to find out!

it's a catch-22, I know; but I choose to err on the side of caution --> this saves lives. I'd rather keep all of the classified information hidden, and protect all of our sources and operations; than risk it all for the sake of discovering one obscure wrongful act by a single person, or small group of persons.

I do not think that there should be a website that encourages leaks to happen more frequently than they already do... It just seems counterproductive -- and dangerous -- to me.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Balt
It will most likely be full of lame 9/11 conspiracy theories and fake moon landing crap.

You don't need an anonymous website to see pictures of the fake moon landing.

*pulls tinfoil hat further over ears*

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

If our government is doing something wrong ( :laugh: ) don't you want to know about it?

yes, I would; but i would never condone the leak of classified information just to find out!

it's a catch-22, I know; but I choose to err on the side of caution --> this saves lives. I'd rather keep all of the classified information hidden, and protect all of our sources and operations; than risk it all for the sake of discovering one obscure wrongful act by a single person, or small group of persons.

I do not think that there should be a website that encourages leaks to happen more frequently than they already do... It just seems counterproductive -- and dangerous -- to me.

So how do you feel about Watergate?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

If our government is doing something wrong ( :laugh: ) don't you want to know about it?

I think we all do. That being said, my fear is that some info gets on there and turns out to be only half the story, therefore people like us, who really arent qualified to analyze info like that, come to assumtions. Often incorrect. So many things would be taken out of context, and analyzed by amateurs.

Its easy to pick on those who are in intel or cabinet positions, but the fact is they are very intelligent, and not as stupid as we make them out to be.

This idea scares the ****** out of me.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

If our government is doing something wrong ( :laugh: ) don't you want to know about it?

yes, I would; but i would never condone the leak of classified information just to find out!

it's a catch-22, I know; but I choose to err on the side of caution --> this saves lives. I'd rather keep all of the classified information hidden, and protect all of our sources and operations; than risk it all for the sake of discovering one obscure wrongful act by a single person, or small group of persons.

I do not think that there should be a website that encourages leaks to happen more frequently than they already do... It just seems counterproductive -- and dangerous -- to me.

So how do you feel about Watergate?

it was shameful in every aspect... but for every "leak" of alleged criminal behavior within the government, there might be hundreds of other leaks that do more harm than good.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

If our government is doing something wrong ( :laugh: ) don't you want to know about it?

yes, I would; but i would never condone the leak of classified information just to find out!

it's a catch-22, I know; but I choose to err on the side of caution --> this saves lives. I'd rather keep all of the classified information hidden, and protect all of our sources and operations; than risk it all for the sake of discovering one obscure wrongful act by a single person, or small group of persons.

I do not think that there should be a website that encourages leaks to happen more frequently than they already do... It just seems counterproductive -- and dangerous -- to me.

So how do you feel about Watergate?

it was shameful in every aspect... but for every "leak" of alleged criminal behavior within the government, there might be hundreds of other leaks that do more harm than good.

just to play devils advocate here

speculation is not a good enough argument.

BUT, in your defense! I think we can all do our due diligence and come up with an instance where leaking intelligence information can do incredible harm. Valerie Plame is a perfect example!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: palehorse74
QFT... anyone who believes that leaks of classified data are a good thing, is a loon -- or they somehow 'get off' on seeing America get hurt...?

If our government is doing something wrong ( :laugh: ) don't you want to know about it?

yes, I would; but i would never condone the leak of classified information just to find out!

it's a catch-22, I know; but I choose to err on the side of caution --> this saves lives. I'd rather keep all of the classified information hidden, and protect all of our sources and operations; than risk it all for the sake of discovering one obscure wrongful act by a single person, or small group of persons.

I do not think that there should be a website that encourages leaks to happen more frequently than they already do... It just seems counterproductive -- and dangerous -- to me.

So how do you feel about Watergate?

it was shameful in every aspect... but for every "leak" of alleged criminal behavior within the government, there might be hundreds of other leaks that do more harm than good.

just to play devils advocate here

speculation is not a good enough argument.

BUT, in your defense! I think we can all do our due diligence and come up with an instance where leaking intelligence information can do incredible harm. Valerie Plame is a perfect example!

yes, sadly, she is a great example. Everyone/anyone involved in that case deserves punishment and/or dismissal. I don't care how high that goes...

that said, with concern to the website idea, i'm just afraid of what might get leaked when you have a fairly non-attributable location to dump any info you want.

SOP's, strategy documents, source identities, op plans, R&D info, etc... any one of which could result in real deaths of American operators or their sources...

the concept is a bit frightening for anyone with a direct stake in the issue.

 

[ProfJohn]

I think the real fear is that we end up with a bunch of people with personal agendas or vendettas posting information to advance their own personal warfare against whoever the information ends up hurting.

Remember the whole Dan Rather memo-gate? The story would have never made light of day had it not been for the fake memos pushed by a known anti-Bush crusader. Despite the often repeated claim (by Craig mainly) that the information was factual and represented the attitudes of the guy who supposedly wrote it, the fact remains that it was fake and we really have no clue how ?factual? it was.

How long will it take before some fake document shows up claiming that Bush knew there were no longer any WMD stockpiles in Iraq? We know from our own little group here on P&N that many people already believe that to be the truth. So the second some even vaguely real looking document shows up backing up their claim it will be all over the left wing blogs in minutes. And people will be pushing the document as proof they are right.

An example of this has already happened with the Truthout.org story about Rove being indicted. The left wing blogs went crazy in celebration when that story made it out. They were just waiting for Rove to be perp marched in front of cameras. When the day the indictment was suppose to be announced came and went most people slowly backed away from the story, except Truthout.org which did not want to reveal its source so stood behind the story. However, by then the harm had already been done.

And as palehorse said, the leaking of classified information is almost never a good thing, especially in its ?pure? form. Will we see people who disagree with the NSA program for political reasons posting details of the program on the net for all to see? Remember when the NY Times did its front page story on the swift bank program? And then months later their self-appointed watch dog editor did a story saying that the leaking of that story was probably a bad thing since after looking into they realized that no one had come to any harm because of it, besides terrorists.

What about details of ?secret? policy meetings? The whole point of having ?secret? meetings with industry leaders, such as oil CEOs, is to get their ideas and opinion in private so what they think is not broadcast all over the country. The second details of these type of meetings hit the internet these people with vast experience and expertise may stop wanting to be apart in these types of policy meetings. (And before you jump all over the oil industry remember that Hillary had secret meetings with healthcare companies during her Hillerycare days.)

I know many of you are in a ?hate Bush? do whatever you can to harm him mood. But what happens in two years if we get President Hillary? And then details of her plan to fix healthcare start being published before they are ready? Or maybe someone on some policy panel suggests we privatize SS during a ?secret? meeting and the details of that meeting hit the papers? In the long run this cuts both ways.