Performance bottleneck in my, soon to be, upgraded PC

[LasseFJ]

Hi All!!!

I've got the following stationary setup:

Amd 3200+ 64bit
1Gb ram, PC3200, 2x512mb
Sata 150, 7200rpm 200gb hd
Geforce 6200 AGP

I wan't to upgrade this machine, to make a mid-range gamer rig with Dx10 support.

I'm considering buying:
New motherboard - with PCI-E support, 4x pc3200 mem slots
Geforce 8600 GT or GTS
+some friends of mine have practically thrown 1x512mb and 1x256mb pc3200 at me.

My stationary is only going to run games, and will not be used for anything else, and will have a minimum Vista setup, as i've got a IBM z61m laptop to run everything else but games.


After the upgrade my PC will consist of the following:
Amd 3200+ 64bit
1.75 Gb ram, PC3200, 3x512mb & 1x256mb
Sata 150, 7200rpm 200gb hd
Geforce 8600 GTS PCI-E

And now to my question:
Will the graphicscard be utilized properly? (can you specify exactly where AND how big the bottleneck in the system will be, in percentages)

I wan't to upgrade my machine, so it'll be able to run Dx10 games, but i do wan't it to be roughly balanced.

Regards
Lasse

 

[Sdiver2489]

Just an FYI the ram might run at 333 MHz(DDR333) Instead of 400 with the 4 sticks

 

[myocardia]

You can't run 3x512 MB plus 1x256 MB sticks with any A64. The amount of RAM has to be identical in each bank. You'll need either 4x256, 4x512, or 2x256 + 2x512. Of course, 2x1 GB would be much better. Anyway, your cpu will definitely be your bottleneck, once you have a real video card. You're going to have to learn to overclock, although nearly all DX10 games should perform significantly better with a dual-core processor.

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: myocardia
You can't run 3x512 MB plus 1x256 MB sticks with any A64. The amount of RAM has to be identical in each bank. You'll need either 4x256, 4x512, or 2x256 + 2x512. Of course, 2x1 GB would be much better. Anyway, your cpu will definitely be your bottleneck, once you have a real video card. You're going to have to learn to overclock, although nearly all DX10 games should perform significantly better with a dual-core processor.

That's not true at all...

You only need mirrored pairs for dual channel operation

and with a 8600GT his CPU will NOT be the bottleneck provided he is playing decently recent games

 

[LasseFJ]

Thank you for your responses, but what i wanted to know was:

Can you specify exactly where AND how big the bottleneck in the system will be, in percentages?

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
Thank you for your responses, but what i wanted to know was:

Can you specify exactly where AND how big the bottleneck in the system will be, in percentages?

The bottleneck is the graphics card and the percentage depends on how good of a graphics card you are comparing it to...

 

[LasseFJ]

So you really think the bottleneck is the brand new Geforce 8600??? Please spare me for future advice... i really think you've misunderstood/misread the question.

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
So you really think the bottleneck is the brand new Geforce 8600??? Please spare me for future advice... i really think you've misunderstood/misread the question.

Um...yes...that's what I said isn't it?

 

[LasseFJ]

A bottleneck is a part of a system that slows down all other parts of the system.

I would think that it would be the CPU and/or RAM that slow down the system, and not a brand new high tech graphicscard?

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
A bottleneck is a part of a system that slows down all other parts of the system.

I would think that it would be the CPU and/or RAM that slow down the system, and not a brand new high tech graphicscard?

ugh, you seem like you have yourself convinced of the answer so why are you asking?

Yes, the CPU and RAM will slow certain things down, but a bottleneck is not just something that slows down the system. A bottleneck is when speeding up other parts of the system have no net effect on the speed of the system. In this case, I guarantee you would see a big performance increase by having a better video card...

 

[JimiP]

It's better to have an up to date CPU than a cutting edge GPU. This has been proven over and over again numerous times. That CPU will be the bottleneck on that system, I'm sorry I can't get you the percentages at this moment but I am most certain that the CPU will be the culprit.

The memory is aging very fast and is starting to become obsolete. Basically I say that you need to get a new CPU and faster RAM. I recommend either the AMD Athlon X2 6000+ or the Intel C2D e6600. Those are two very nice CPU's and will get you back on your feet again. I would also recommend purchasing DDR2-800 memory. You can get good quality memory from G.Skill 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800 PC-6400 for around $95 at Newegg.com. I highly suggest this. Either way, good luck on your new build!

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Sdiver2489
That's not true at all...

You only need mirrored pairs for dual channel operation

and with a 8600GT his CPU will NOT be the bottleneck provided he is playing decently recent games

Which Athlon 64 have you tried this with? With every A64 I've seen so far, they absolutely refuse to post, unless the amount of RAM in each channel is identical.

 

[LasseFJ]

Sdiver: I didn't mean to offend anybody or appear to know it all.

I just wanted to know if anyone had any idea about how much of a slow down the CPU & RAM will cause.

Let me ask another question:
With this config:
Amd 3200+ 64bit
New motherboard - with PCI-E support, 4x pc3200 mem slots
1Gb ram, PC3200, 3x512mb & 1x256mb
Sata 150, 7200rpm 200gb hd

What graphics card would be reasonable to insert into this config? What would balance it out? I know the config can pull a lot more than a Geforce 6200.

 

[LasseFJ]

3x512mb+1x256 would get me 1.75gb ram... sorry

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Sdiver2489
That's not true at all...

You only need mirrored pairs for dual channel operation

and with a 8600GT his CPU will NOT be the bottleneck provided he is playing decently recent games

Which Athlon 64 have you tried this with? With every A64 I've seen so far, they absolutely refuse to post, unless the amount of RAM in each channel is identical.

Well considering my athlon64 has 3 slots there would be no way I could match pairs. The only restriction as I said is that you need to do mirrored pairs for dual channel.

In my system I have done the following combos successfully:

1. 2x 512 DDR333
2. 2x 512 DDR333+ 1 gig DDR 400
3. 2x 512 DDR333 + 512 DDR 400
4. 2x 1 gig

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
Sdiver: I didn't mean to offend anybody or appear to know it all.

I just wanted to know if anyone had any idea about how much of a slow down the CPU & RAM will cause.

Let me ask another question:
With this config:
Amd 3200+ 64bit
New motherboard - with PCI-E support, 4x pc3200 mem slots
1Gb ram, PC3200, 3x512mb & 1x256mb
Sata 150, 7200rpm 200gb hd

What graphics card would be reasonable to insert into this config? What would balance it out? I know the config can pull a lot more than a Geforce 6200.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2747&p=4

What this graph proves is that our Oblivion Gate benchmark is really only CPU bound if you've got a pair of X1900 XTs in CrossFire.

and since X1900XT's in crossfire will be much faster than your 8600, you will be GPU bound in most modern games

Granted this is only one test...however it shows that your graphics card will make more of a difference than the CPU. Both would help your system, and I bet the amount each would help would vary greatly between different games

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Sdiver2489
Well considering my athlon64 has 3 slots there would be no way I could match pairs. The only restriction as I said is that you need to do mirrored pairs for dual channel.

In my system I have done the following combos successfully:

1. 2x 512 DDR333
2. 2x 512 DDR333+ 1 gig DDR 400
3. 2x 512 DDR333 + 512 DDR 400
4. 2x 1 gig

Then you have a Socket 754 board and chip, so no matter what size the sticks are, it will post. I can do that with a Socket 754 board, too. But, the OP doesn't have a Socket 754 board, and Socket 939 boards won't post with unequal amounts of RAM; both channels have to have the same amount.

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Sdiver2489
Well considering my athlon64 has 3 slots there would be no way I could match pairs. The only restriction as I said is that you need to do mirrored pairs for dual channel.

In my system I have done the following combos successfully:

1. 2x 512 DDR333
2. 2x 512 DDR333+ 1 gig DDR 400
3. 2x 512 DDR333 + 512 DDR 400
4. 2x 1 gig

Then you have a Socket 754 board and chip, so no matter what size the sticks are, it will post. I can do that with a Socket 754 board, too. But, the OP doesn't have a Socket 754 board, and Socket 939 boards won't post with unequal amounts of RAM; both channels have to have the same amount.

In that case, my friend was running a s939 AMD 4200+ X2 with 3 gigs of ram. There were three 1 gig sticks.

I am telling you, matched pairs haven't been required for quite some time, I believe since the time of RDRAM

Text

Note that only dual-channel DDR RAM modules have to be installed in pairs. You do not need to install DIMM (SDRAM or DDR RAM) modules in pairs. Modern motherboards are also often much more forgiving about which DIMM modules can be fitted - they do not all have to be of the same capacity. - A 64MB module can be installed with 128MB and 256MB modules.

 

[LasseFJ]

I see your point. What Geforce 8xxx would, in your best guess, be best fit for my system then? 8500, 8600 or much less? or perhaps a 8xxx would be insane to put into such a slow machine? I've read that 8xxx unloads the CPU a lot....

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
I just wanted to know if anyone had any idea about how much of a slow down the CPU will cause.

At stock speeds, massive. The RAM won't cause any slowdown, though, just the cpu.

Let me ask another question:
With this config:
Amd 3200+ 64bit
New motherboard - with PCI-E support, 4x pc3200 mem slots
1Gb ram, PC3200, 3x512mb & 1x256mb
Sata 150, 7200rpm 200gb hd

What graphics card would be reasonable to insert into this config? What would balance it out? I know the config can pull a lot more than a Geforce 6200.

With the cpu at stock speeds, you really shouldn't put anything faster than a 7600GT into it, which they make in AGP also. I'd probably put a cheaper 7600GS into it, though; unless you decide to upgrade your motherboard. 7600GT's are fairly expensive for the AGP versions.

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
I see your point. What Geforce 8xxx would, in your best guess, be best fit for my system then? 8500, 8600 or much less? or perhaps a 8xxx would be insane to put into such a slow machine? I've read that 8xxx unloads the CPU a lot....

I think the 8600 models would be good for you actually. You might still be GPU bound in certain cases but its a good increase over what you have.

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
I just wanted to know if anyone had any idea about how much of a slow down the CPU will cause.

At stock speeds, massive. The RAM won't cause any slowdown, though, just the cpu.

Let me ask another question:
With this config:
Amd 3200+ 64bit
New motherboard - with PCI-E support, 4x pc3200 mem slots
1Gb ram, PC3200, 3x512mb & 1x256mb
Sata 150, 7200rpm 200gb hd

What graphics card would be reasonable to insert into this config? What would balance it out? I know the config can pull a lot more than a Geforce 6200.

With the cpu at stock speeds, you really shouldn't put anything faster than a 7600GT into it, which they make in AGP also. I'd probably put a cheaper 7600GS into it, though; unless you decide to upgrade your motherboard. 7600GT's are fairly expensive for the AGP versions.

He said in his OP he was going PCI express and the 7*** isn't DX10 like he wanted

 

[LasseFJ]

Exactly right Sdiver. Maybe it's overkill with a 8600, but what pains me is how much the 8600 would wait for other parts.. i guess i can live with a 70% performance loss if i can use the upgraded configuration...

Do you guys think it would be above or below 70%?

 

[LasseFJ]

What's worth paying attention to is that if i'm to buy new CPU and RAM it will in fact DOUBLE the cost, compared to just buying a new motherboard, gfx-card and the ram.

 

[Sdiver2489]

Originally posted by: LasseFJ
What's worth paying attention to is that if i'm to buy new CPU and RAM it will in fact DOUBLE the cost, compared to just buying a new motherboard, gfx-card and the ram.

Exactly, you are going to get a nice speed boost by changing the card out. I can't say percentages because it will depend on the game, but needless to say, if you don't have the money to do a full upgrade...a 8600 is a nice compromise. That and you wouldn't have to get rid of the card if you changed your proc at some point.