Performance boost: T6600 (core 2 duo) vs i7 4510U

[captainspi]

After 6 years of abusing my Compaq laptop I have decided it's time for an upgrade. I intend to use my new purchase mostly for application development (the Android kind, nothing too processor intensive) and a bit of Photoshop.

Portability is very important... I have narrowed my hunt down to laptops running on an i7 4510 U. Everything else is either far too slow, or a wee bit over my budget..

After extensive research I have come to the conclusion that besides the nice little bells and whistles in the form of Virtualization and Turbo boosts, Haswell processors (the U kind) are quite heavily throttled.

The base frequency of an 'i7' 4510 is about 2GHZ, where as my T6600 runs at 2.2GHZ.... there isn't a significant difference in the cache size either, however I did read something about the i7 working with a new instruction set which supposedly makes it faster. Also, there's virtualization....

Assuming that there is little to no difference in the rest of the specs between my ancient laptop and the one I am eyeing right now, will the performance boost, purely in terms of the processing power, justify the upgrade? Or should I hold out a little and look for something better?

 

[Burpo]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+T6600+@+2.20GHz

New laptop almost 3 times faster.. so Yes.. It will be noticeably faster..

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4510U+@+2.00GHz

 

[.vodka]

T6600 is Penryn based. i7 4510u is Haswell based. You're comparing CPUs four generations apart. Roughly speaking, worst case, here's how they've improved clock for clock over these years:

Penryn -> Nehalem/Westmere (+15%) -> Sandy (+15%) -> Ivy (+5%) -> Haswell (+10%)

Cumulatively, you're not only looking at a CPU several times faster at the same clocks but also at platform improvements: battery life, connectivity (USB3, etc), graphics performance (if you've been using GMA9xx graphics...), turbo for improved perceived responsiveness, it's a long list.

If you add a SSD to that new laptop you'll be blown away.

Upgrade, it's overdue and entirely justified.

 

[tynopik]

will the performance boost, purely in terms of the processing power, justify the upgrade?

short answer: yes
long answer: yyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[escrow4]

Wait for the Lenovo x250. Will come with Broadwell, can stick an i7 up into it, and battery life approaches 20hrs.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Wait for the Lenovo x250. Will come with Broadwell, can stick an i7 up into it, and battery life approaches 20hrs.

This.

 

[tynopik]

if portability is important, then consider the i5-5200U, the difference from the i7 is minimal

then get the dell xps 13 with 8GB of ram, non-touch and upgrade the ssd to 256GB

 

[waffleironhead]

I just ordered a lenovo y40 with the 4510u. The system was $699. Should be here in the next few days. If you want some benches done let me know and I'll see what I can do.

 

[frozentundra123456]

T6600 is Penryn based. i7 4510u is Haswell based. You're comparing CPUs four generations apart. Roughly speaking, worst case, here's how they've improved clock for clock over these years:

Penryn -> Nehalem/Westmere (+15%) -> Sandy (+15%) -> Ivy (+5%) -> Haswell (+10%)

Cumulatively, you're not only looking at a CPU several times faster at the same clocks but also at platform improvements: battery life, connectivity (USB3, etc), graphics performance (if you've been using GMA9xx graphics...), turbo for improved perceived responsiveness, it's a long list.

If you add a SSD to that new laptop you'll be blown away.

Upgrade, it's overdue and entirely justified.

Granted it will be an upgrade, but hardly several times faster. Assuming your figures are correct, and they seem about right, it would only be about 50% faster clock for clock. And the i7 will have multithreading and turbo. So could be maybe up to twice as fast in certain workloads. Kind of amazing though. My grandson has a "gaming" laptop about 5 years old with a similar cpu, and now it is outclassed by a low voltage one.

 

[.vodka]

These IPC figures from what I've gathered over the years on Anand's/other sites reviews are worst case, baseline. Some workloads show higher improvements but are the exception more than the rule.


This one in particular is pretty interesting. That's an i3-3225/G2020 vs an E8400, similar clock speeds with three generations of improvement and the i3 in particular pulls away a lot more thanks to HT, approaching, sometimes even beating the Q9550 in threaded loads. Not bad. Haswell's wider and faster cores will take even more advantage of HT increasing that lead, it's easy to see where the several times faster claim comes from.. at least during Photoshop use. Everything else should feel as improved as that, too.

On top of that, the T6600 is rated at 35w while the i7-4510U's TDP is 15w. Again, not bad at all.

Intel's improvements all these years have been focused on mobile from Sandy onwards. For us desktop guys it's been a boring ride since then, but for laptop users it's quite the opposite. I'm more than sure he'll be blown away at the upgrade, even without an SSD doing its magic.


You are right, these notebook processors can do things at speeds that were only thought possible on desktops a few years ago while zipping power, in that regard the improvement is massive.

 

[Ramses]

I have an HP envy 4510u I bought a bit ago, quite fast for it's diminutive clock speed and power usage. Plan on an SSD and plenty of RAM and you'll have no issues. Honestly given good subsystems it sounds like overkill for the usage you listed. The trouble I found is they don't put lesser CPU's in as nice a chassis more often than not. I could give up some CPU for lower price or more ram or an SSD myself on this particular machine but it wasn't really an option and maintain a 1080p 17" screen.

 

[Matt1970]

T6600 PassMark score 1403
i7-4510U PassMark Score 3989

That will be a pretty hefty upgrade.

 

[captainspi]

Plenty of interesting analysis. I was a little apprehensive since performance seems to come by at a far lower cost on Desktops. Just the fact that I was drawing unreasonable comparisons in my mind points to how powerful laptops' have really become. The future looks very exciting (as long as AMD can get its act together and keep the pressure on)

Wait for the Lenovo x250. Will come with Broadwell, can stick an i7 up into it, and battery life approaches 20hrs.

I would like to get my hands on something right away. While I'd love to have a Broadwell, the reduction in the size of the die just doesn't have the oomph factor to keep me waiting longer.

I just ordered a lenovo y40 with the 4510u. The system was $699. Should be here in the next few days. If you want some benches done let me know and I'll see what I can do.

That would be fantastic! If it's not much trouble, I'd love to see some benchmarks.

Also, do I need to be worried about the discrepancy in throttling between different manufacturers? I am pretty sure I read somewhere on the forums here that it's hard to tell about the performance since it varies from company to company. I currently have my eyes on an HP 15 with an i7... I'd love to go for a Lenovo but there just aren't many deals going around on this side of the world.

 

[NTMBK]

The big improvements aren't in the CPU, they're elsewhere. The GPU, storage speed (if you do the right thing and get an SSD) will be significantly better.

 

[captainspi]

Does anyone have an opinion on the i5 4200M? It seems to be more powerful than the 4510U but it's not as energy efficient...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-4200M-Notebook-Processor.93558.0.html

I am wondering if the performance benefits out weigh the efficiency trade-off?

 

[NTMBK]

Does anyone have an opinion on the i5 4200M? It seems to be more powerful than the 4510U but it's not as energy efficient...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-4200M-Notebook-Processor.93558.0.html

I am wondering if the performance benefits out weigh the efficiency trade-off?

Depends how much you value portability. It will be a lot quicker, but it will be in thicker laptops- probably you'll end up with something the same thickness as your current Compaq laptop.

I'd recommend looking at specific models of laptop, not just CPU models. There's less choice out there than you would expect. For instance almost every Dell laptop now uses a U-series processor, instead of the faster and hotter M-series.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Does anyone have an opinion on the i5 4200M? It seems to be more powerful than the 4510U but it's not as energy efficient...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-4200M-Notebook-Processor.93558.0.html

I am wondering if the performance benefits out weigh the efficiency trade-off?

Efficiency is a canard - unless you're running your CPU at a good chunk of max load all the time, they'll be at more or less idle. And at idle, they'll use pretty close to the same power. (within a watt or so margin.)

The higher TDP of i5-4200M means that systems using it will need to be able to dissipate 37w of heat; which means bigger cooling systems, thicker machine, etc. The higher TDP means that the i5 will tend to run at max "boost" clock for longer stretches. Performance will be similar otherwise - the right CPU for you depends on your workload, and whether you want an ultra-thin laptop or something with a bigger cooling system and a little more heft to it.

 

[Enigmoid]

Efficiency is a canard - unless you're running your CPU at a good chunk of max load all the time, they'll be at more or less idle. And at idle, they'll use pretty close to the same power. (within a watt or so margin.)

The higher TDP of i5-4200M means that systems using it will need to be able to dissipate 37w of heat; which means bigger cooling systems, thicker machine, etc. The higher TDP means that the i5 will tend to run at max "boost" clock for longer stretches. Performance will be similar otherwise - the right CPU for you depends on your workload, and whether you want an ultra-thin laptop or something with a bigger cooling system and a little more heft to it.

U systems have the integrated on package PCH and generally get quite a bit longer battery life.

 

[captainspi]

The higher TDP means that the i5 will tend to run at max "boost" clock for longer stretches.

I intend to use it for development work for the most part. I expect the CPU to come under heavy load intermittently. With the turbo boost, it's sort of impossible to judge whether the U series will meet my processing requirements before the throttling kicks in. I think I will stick with the M just to be on the safe side?

I'd recommend looking at specific models of laptop, not just CPU models. There's less choice out there than you would expect.

I noticed that! I have narrowed my hunt down to the G510 since it sports the M model which can run at peak frequency for longer. The battery life seems to be pretty good too. I am getting an 8750 card with it. It's not much... but it's better than not having an 8750. This configuration will set me back $600... unfortunately I can't find a good deal on y40's here.

Think its a good deal?

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-G510-Notebook-Review.117221.0.html

 

[tynopik]

I intend to use it for development work for the most part. I expect the CPU to come under heavy load intermittently. With the turbo boost, it's sort of impossible to judge whether the U series will meet my processing requirements before the throttling kicks in. I think I will stick with the M just to be on the safe side?

the difference is small enough you're not going to notice it in real life

on the other hand you will notice the form factor difference in real life . . . repeatedly

simply put, RAM, SSD and form factor are more critical than even 30% differences in CPU power

 

[jhu]

You're better off getting a cheap, slow computer so you can complain about it.

 

[Ramses]

Stuff that works too well is kinda boring.


That said, if there are any benchmarks that are particularly telling about your anticipated workload I can run them past my 4510u if you like.

 

[sm625]

There isnt much difference between a dual core i7 and a dual core i5. IMO intel shouldnt even make dual core i7s... but there they are.

 

[captainspi]

Stuff that works too well is kinda boring.


That said, if there are any benchmarks that are particularly telling about your anticipated workload I can run them past my 4510u if you like.

Thanks for all the help guys. Hashing it out really helped, but I think I have made up my mind. I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of processing power for a a better GPU. I am going for a Dell Inspiron 3542 with a 4510u and an Nvidia 840m.

This way, nothing will work too well but it will keep things interesting all round

 

[Ramses]

Same GPU my Envy has. UT3 runs great.