Pepper Spray/OC sucks!!!

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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
I've heard that inhaling it can cause your lungs to sieze up, especially if you're sensitive\alergic to that kinda thing.
 

VTboy

Banned
Oct 13, 2003
383
0
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: VTboy
Also pepper spray only has a around a 70% affectiveness compared to a EMD Air Taser that is around 100%. Meaning that around 30% of the time someone will be able to overcome the pain from the pepper spray and it won't do you any good.
I know for a fact that Tazers don't have 100% effectiveness and that's not accounting for misfires or missing your target.
EMD Tasers do have a near 100% effectiveness. There effectivness is much higher than OC/pepper sprays.

There are stun tasers and EMD tasers. EMD tasers have a higher effectivness than stud taser.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
23,196
24,071
136
Some little HS punk tried to start a fight with me one time in the knife shop I worked at throughout college. He cussed at me for some reason, and after laughing at him, I gave him the choice of leaving or getting stuffed into a garbage can. He left, but came back later and waited patiently while I helped a customer. After the customer left, he asked if we needed to take it outside. He was probably sixteen, 5' 4", maybe a soaking wet buck-fifty. I'm 6'3" 210lbs. and was literally surronded by fighting implements. I noticed that he had been keeping both his hands folded behind his waist. Almost on cue, my co-worker arrived for his shift and by opening the back door to walk in caused me to turn and look to see who it was. As I did the kid whipped his hand up and I thought he threw something at me as something wet hit me on the right side of my face and neck. I look back and he's already fifty feet away making tracks to the mall exit, touts suite. He had sprayed me with a pepper-spray pen, the kind women carry in their purses (how fitting!).

While I never got to exact the revenge I so wanted on that little cowardly b!tch, it turns out my co-worker did. He spotted the kid using a pay phone next to a car wash not too far from the mall about 2 weeks later. He parked his truck, walked up to the booth, opened the door and just stomped him into oblivion, then closed the door and left. Called me the same day to let me know. Ahh friends.....

While I was lucky enough not to catch any in the eyes (I wear contacts too) a lot went into my ear, and some on the side of my mouth. That stuff is horrible, my sympathies go out to anyone who recieves a full blast to any open eyes and mouth.
 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
I am happy with non-lethal personal protection but WTF is OC and CCW? Explain please Mill.
Oleoresin Capsaicin= Pepper Spray basically. CCW= Concealed Carry Weapon... i.e. a nice big handgun that is hidden. Anyway, you do realize Civilian OC is worthless don't you? What is she going to use it for? If someone is robbing you and armed you don't resist with OC. A rapist isn't going to stop with Civilian OC. It gives a false sense of security and is utterly worthless. Non-lethals personal protection just means that you will have your methods defeated. Non-lethal stuff just doesn't work for personal defense. The Civilian version of the Tazer doesn't come out until a few more months. OC is wortheless in your case. Gun is the only solution. JMO.
Thanx for the info. I don't believe in guns so she won't have one of those. She does carry a knife with her also. One day while riding her bike through the park she was hastled by some "African American" kids who tried to swipe the stuff she had with her (Her keys and SLR camera). She was able to get the stuff back, but the situation could have been worse.

We live in a small town (POP 45000) I was pissed when I heard about this. I would like to get her some self protection that works from a distance but if a gun is the only way to do it, then I am affraid she is going to have to live with close range combat (IE Knife). I won't have a gun in my house so that leaves her with a knife that is VERY sharp and under 4".

 

sharkeeper

Lifer
Jan 13, 2001
10,886
2
0
Try getting sprayed with 92% hydrogen peroxide once. Unlike tasers and OC, this will give the new look.

Cheers!
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
I am happy with non-lethal personal protection but WTF is OC and CCW? Explain please Mill.
Oleoresin Capsaicin= Pepper Spray basically. CCW= Concealed Carry Weapon... i.e. a nice big handgun that is hidden. Anyway, you do realize Civilian OC is worthless don't you? What is she going to use it for? If someone is robbing you and armed you don't resist with OC. A rapist isn't going to stop with Civilian OC. It gives a false sense of security and is utterly worthless. Non-lethals personal protection just means that you will have your methods defeated. Non-lethal stuff just doesn't work for personal defense. The Civilian version of the Tazer doesn't come out until a few more months. OC is wortheless in your case. Gun is the only solution. JMO.
Thanx for the info. I don't believe in guns so she won't have one of those. She does carry a knife with her also. One day while riding her bike through the park she was hastled by some "African American" kids who tried to swipe the stuff she had with her (Her keys and SLR camera). She was able to get the stuff back, but the situation could have been worse.

We live in a small town (POP 45000) I was pissed when I heard about this. I would like to get her some self protection that works from a distance but if a gun is the only way to do it, then I am affraid she is going to have to live with close range combat (IE Knife). I won't have a gun in my house so that leaves her with a knife that is VERY sharp and under 4".
What is it that makes you not "beleive" in guns. Is your false sense of safety by not "believing" in them worth the life of your girlfriend who could have easily defended herself with one against those hoodlums? That incident alone should have opened your eyes.

And are all the knives in your house less than 4"? Even your steakknives? You have some silly rules for what is probably some silly fears.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
23,196
24,071
136
I don't believe in guns so she won't have one of those.
If you really cared about your woman, you wouldn't impose your hangups on her, especially if her security is at stake. Her simply carrying a knife isn't going to do jack if she doesn't know at least the basics in edged-weapon personal defense, more likely it will be taken away and used against her. The only good weapon is one you know how to use.

I know of some Japanese hardasses who also didn't believe in guns. They were the uprisers of the Satsuma Rebellion. I can tell you it wasn't half as long or poetic as what was shown in The Last Samurai.


 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
Actually neither of us believe in guns so I am not imposing anything.

EDIT: I knew the gun people wouldn't be happy with my post. It is my opinion and I am sticking to it. as for Opening my eyes and all that crap, what if she would have accidentally or not shot one of the guys. She would be in jail for a long period of time. It's hard to claim self defense when one of them is dead over something as simple as her house keys.

EDIT2: 4" is the legal size for carrying a knife here in Minnesota. So "No" the house knives are regular sized. I am friends with a lot of the local law enforcement and they say if they open the knife and it is longer than the stretch from pinky to thumb, you're going to jail.
 

maziwanka

Lifer
Jul 4, 2000
10,419
1
0
one of my friends kept a bottle of mace with him back in hs. we all wanted to know what it was like, so one day after school, we sprayed the mace halfway across one of the lunch rooms. it was so powerful that our faces felt like they were burning and we had to run from the room.
 

VTboy

Banned
Oct 13, 2003
383
0
0
Originally posted by: shuttleteam
Try getting sprayed with 92% hydrogen peroxide once. Unlike tasers and OC, this will give the new look.

Cheers!

That can be said about a lot of chemicals.

Chemicals such as Sodium Hydroxide, Potassium Hydroxide, Phenol, Sulfuric Acid, and hydrofloric acid that have been concentrated.
 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: ness1469
what, exactly, is the point in getting purposely sprayed? Do you build any sort of immunity to it, is it teaching you how to deal with it, or do they do it so you can say "Man, this stuff SUCKS, I really don't wanna have that done to me if it comes down to it."
They want you to feel what it's like for a few reasons.

1. If a criminal is fighting with you and gets a hold of your OC you won't hesitate to put him down with your sidearm. This is within regulations, since an officer is allowed to go "one level up" for most departments. If the subject is verbally abusive you can grab them and attempt an armbar or other hold. If they actively resist you can use pain compliance. If they are striking you, then it's time for the baton/OC. If they have a weapon of their own you can bump up to the sidearm.

2. So you won't be prone to using the OC too quickly on a subject that doesn't quite deserve it.

3. And so you know that, while difficult, it's still possible to function even when your hit with the spray. Many academies require officers to maintain their firearm and subdue an instructor after they're hit with the OC.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
Did they at least do it in the showers? That is where we did ours, some people react worse than others.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
Actually neither of us believe in guns so I am not imposing anything.

EDIT: I knew the gun people wouldn't be happy with my post. It is my opinion and I am sticking to it. as for Opening my eyes and all that crap, what if she would have accidentally or not shot one of the guys. She would be in jail for a long period of time. It's hard to claim self defense when one of them is dead over something as simple as her house keys.

EDIT2: 4" is the legal size for carrying a knife here in Minnesota. So "No" the house knives are regular sized. I am friends with a lot of the local law enforcement and they say if they open the knife and it is longer than the stretch from pinky to thumb, you're going to jail.
Just two comments:

If you have been trained how to use a gun (correctly), and you apply that training, you wont accidentally shoot someone. As far as intentionally shooting them, killing someone with a pistol that you have a CCW permit for is no worse than killing them with a knife. Fatality rates are actually higher with knives, though much of that is due to people shooting their two Glock 40 S&Ws sideways and only winging people (plus, of course, the popularity of the 9mm ;) ). Either way, if it is justified, you'll (likely) be in the clear. If it is not, you're likely screwed anyway... so I would prefer to carry the more effective weapon. Which is a gun.

It is odd how "the gun people" generally know more about SD than your average person, and how people who know about self-defense generally prefer a gun given the choice, especially when their adversary is likely to be bigger and stronger than them, which is most likely going to be the case for your wife.
 

foofoo

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2001
1,344
0
0
Originally posted by: IGBT
I hear there's a varient of pepper spray designed to deter bear attacks..much higher concentration for maximum effect on yogies nose and eyes..field tested with proven results in Alaska...the stuff comes in a container that looks like an automotive fire ext.
there is,
i've carried (but not used it) when backpacking in denali natl. park and canoeing on the yukon river. it's a cylinder ~3" diameter and ~ 12" high. shoots ~30 feet.
but you really dont want a grizzly bear that close.
 

Ynog

Golden Member
Oct 9, 2002
1,782
1
0
Originally posted by: Rogue
Our installation is FINALLY permitting the officers to carry it. I had to get certified today, which entails getting sprayed with the stuff. I'll tell you what, that's some mean stuff. I think I'd rather be shot than get hit with that stuff. My face is still burning from it. I'm a pretty tough dude too, but this stuff is mean. I didn't even get sprayed with the most potent kind on the market either.

Word to the wise, don't get in a position to get sprayed with this if you don't have to 'cuz it will tear your ass up! :D

PS - the red face icon is about how I actually look right now. ;)
My good friend also had to be sprayed in the face with pepper spray, he said that when he took
a shower afterwards, that it felt like getting sprayed again.
 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: Ynog
Originally posted by: Rogue
Our installation is FINALLY permitting the officers to carry it. I had to get certified today, which entails getting sprayed with the stuff. I'll tell you what, that's some mean stuff. I think I'd rather be shot than get hit with that stuff. My face is still burning from it. I'm a pretty tough dude too, but this stuff is mean. I didn't even get sprayed with the most potent kind on the market either.

Word to the wise, don't get in a position to get sprayed with this if you don't have to 'cuz it will tear your ass up! :D

PS - the red face icon is about how I actually look right now. ;)
My good friend also had to be sprayed in the face with pepper spray, he said that when he took
a shower afterwards, that it felt like getting sprayed again.
Was it water or oil based? The oil based stuff with last with you for a LONG time, especially if you get it in your hair.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Thanx for the info. I don't believe in guns so she won't have one of those.
You don't believe in guns? That's strange. I don't believe in the lock ness monster, because I've never seen it. I can show you pictures of guns though, I promise they're real, and they do exist.

Oh, BTW, I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, but you'd be a fool to try to fistfight an armed attacker, or numerous unarmed attackers. THe most vicious forms of martial arts allow one person to combat 3 other people. One gun can allow you to disperse a crowd of attackers.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Thanx for the info. I don't believe in guns so she won't have one of those.
You don't believe in guns? That's strange. I don't believe in the lock ness monster, because I've never seen it. I can show you pictures of guns though, I promise they're real, and they do exist.

Oh, BTW, I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, but you'd be a fool to try to fistfight an armed attacker, or numerous unarmed attackers. THe most vicious forms of martial arts allow one person to combat 3 other people. One gun can allow you to disperse a crowd of attackers.
Just let him sail on believing a knife used for self-protection is good, a gun is always bad, no matter how it is used, unless used by a government employee of one kind or another... and hope for their own sakes he and his wife dont find out how true that old saying is... never bring a knife to a gunfight.
 

sharkeeper

Lifer
Jan 13, 2001
10,886
2
0
That can be said about a lot of chemicals.

Chemicals such as Sodium Hydroxide, Potassium Hydroxide, Phenol, Sulfuric Acid, and hydrofloric acid that have been concentrated.
Yes but H202 is quite benign once reduced.

Cheers!
 

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