People migrating from blue to red suberbs...because its more affordable

[JSt0rm]

If bloat, bureaucracy, unsustainable pension funds, bankruptcy, incompetence, redundancy, cronyism and corruption are how you define success. Cuz the government exists to solve every problem.

You navigate around facts to find your narrative.

 

[fskimospy]

If bloat, bureaucracy, unsustainable pension funds, bankruptcy, incompetence, redundancy, cronyism and corruption are how you define success. Cuz the government exists to solve every problem.

What places in America generally have the highest standards of living, the highest wages, the highest education levels, and the highest life expectancies? Is it the low tax, low regulation South, or is it the high tax, high regulation west coast and northeast? Look outside of America at the most successful economies in the world. Are they generally high tax, high service models or low tax low service models?

Based on that evidence doesn't it seem like a good idea to emulate the most successful areas?

 

[Snarf Snarf]

I invite you all to move to Texas. The land is plentiful, there's a good job market, and we could really use some political diversity.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You navigate around facts to find your narrative.

And you move the goal posts when presented with facts that challenge your narrative.

 

[JSt0rm]

And you move the goal posts when presented with facts that challenge your narrative.

uh no. Our conversation left off we me asking you a question.

 

[Starbuck1975]

What places in America generally have the highest standards of living, the highest wages, the highest education levels, and the highest life expectancies? Is it the low tax, low regulation South, or is it the high tax, high regulation west coast and northeast? Look outside of America at the most successful economies in the world. Are they generally high tax, high service models or low tax low service models?

Based on that evidence doesn't it seem like a good idea to emulate the most successful areas?

And on the other end of the spectrum, you have the blue state utopias of Detroit, Oakland, Buffalo, the Inland Empire and Chicago, with Texas being a notable red state contradiction to your premise. You also have Georgia and the Carolinas increasingly emerging as technology and manufacturing centers of economic activity.

There is nothing in America that even comes close to eupopean democratic socialism. Europe benefits from American GDP investments in military and defense, which frees up a lot of capital. Their societies are also less diverse and more culturally homogenous, which inherently removes most of the hurdles present in US politics. Most also have mandatory government service, which I am a proponent of. Guess which states in the US contribute the least to our volunteer military?

Also, which Europe are you referring to? Germany, the Nordics and Switzerland fit your narrative. Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece certainly do not. Interestingly enough, Spain, Italy and Greece beat Germany on life expectancy, yet I dob't think we want to emulate their governments.

 

[JSt0rm]

Spain, Italy and Greece beat Germany on life expectancy, yet I dob't think we want to emulate their governments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet

 

[fskimospy]

And on the other end of the spectrum, you have the blue state utopias of Detroit, Oakland, Buffalo, the Inland Empire and Chicago, with Texas being a notable red state contradiction to your premise. You also have Georgia and the Carolinas increasingly emerging as technology and manufacturing centers of economic activity.

There is nothing in America that even comes close to eupopean democratic socialism. Europe benefits from American GDP investments in military and defense, which frees up a lot of capital. Their societies are also less diverse and more culturally homogenous, which inherently removes most of the hurdles present in US politics. Most also have mandatory government service, which I am a proponent of. Guess which states in the US contribute the least to our volunteer military?

Also, which Europe are you referring to? Germany, the Nordics and Switzerland fit your narrative. Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece certainly do not. Interestingly enough, Spain, Italy and Greece beat Germany on life expectancy, yet I dob't think we want to emulate their governments.

This is cherry picking and making excuses. There are always exceptions because societies are complicated.

Let’s return to my original question: in both the US and abroad where does competitiveness and quality of life for citizens tend to be the best? High tax/high service areas or low tax/low service areas? The answer is clear and we both know it.

So again, why don’t we emulate the most successful areas? What sense does it make to look at the areas of our country that are dependent on funds from other states and say to ourselves ‘yeah let’s do that’?

 

[Starbuck1975]

From what I've seen Apple is under comparatively little pressure to repatriate and the tax bill does not seem to provide any long term incentive not to keep cash off shore. They can still borrow much more cheaply than moving cash back

http://cnnmon.ie/2CbMPHn

 

[Starbuck1975]

This is cherry picking and making excuses. There are always exceptions because societies are complicated.

Let’s return to my original question: in both the US and abroad where does competitiveness and quality of life for citizens tend to be the best? High tax/high service areas or low tax/low service areas? The answer is clear and we both know it.

So again, why don’t we emulate the most successful areas? What sense does it make to look at the areas of our country that are dependent on funds from other states and say to ourselves ‘yeah let’s do that’?

The answer is not clear because I just listed a whole bunch of high tax/poor service examples that don't fit your narrative. You don't get to dismiss data points as outliers.

 

[fskimospy]

The answer is not clear because I just listed a whole bunch of high tax/poor service examples that don't fit your narrative. You don't get to dismiss data points as outliers.

Huh? I’m the one saying you should use all the data, you’re the one cherry picking. You understand that when you find a statistical relationship between two things it doesn’t mean that EVERY case will have that same relationship, right? It means when you look at all the data that relationship exists.

So again, considering that almost all the best functioning areas are high tax and high service why would we not want to emulate that? I know in your heart you don’t want it to be true but it is.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In NY, the decline is upstate.

http://alloveralbany.com/archive/2016/11/09/new-york-state-presidential-election-2016-county-r

The counties seeing decline are Republican counties
Seems like we are shipping Trump supporters south.
My county also saw a decline but like the others...its republican town around here.

Taxes on property can be equal or more than mortgage. One never really owns their homes as a result. I expect to have to move once my wife retires as we can't afford to stay. I don't know where we'll go but some place much less expensive. Party has nothing to do with it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Huh? I’m the one saying you should use all the data, you’re the one cherry picking. You understand that when you find a statistical relationship between two things it doesn’t mean that EVERY case will have that same relationship, right? It means when you look at all the data that relationship exists.

So again, considering that almost all the best functioning areas are high tax and high service why would we not want to emulate that? I know in your heart you don’t want it to be true but it is.

I am not cherry picking at all. I gave you a laundry list of high tax poor functioning areas, and a list of European nations for which high taxes do not equal utopia.

You volunteered the NE and the west coast, which from an income disparity and affordability perspective, are not very functional at all. Life sucking commutes, perpetual rentership, limited upwards mobility and income disparity are not the indicators of high quality of life.

You are trying assert statistical significance to something that is a matter of perspective.

 

[K1052]

http://cnnmon.ie/2CbMPHn

That’s not pressure and isnt until large investors start demanding they do it, which really isnt happening so far.They can still borrow more cheaply than the repatriation and will pump up the dividend/buyback with Corp tax savings.

 

[K1052]

Nm

 

[bshole]

Huh? I’m the one saying you should use all the data, you’re the one cherry picking. You understand that when you find a statistical relationship between two things it doesn’t mean that EVERY case will have that same relationship, right? It means when you look at all the data that relationship exists.

So again, considering that almost all the best functioning areas are high tax and high service why would we not want to emulate that? I know in your heart you don’t want it to be true but it is.

Given that Texas has the 6th highest property tax rate in the country, a shit ton of upper middle class Republican tax voters are going to take it in the ass for the benefit of the 1%. I wonder if the fucking they are about to get is going to influence their next vote. Texas is already bordering on purple, this little knife in the back could turn it completely.

 

[fskimospy]

I am not cherry picking at all. I gave you a laundry list of high tax poor functioning areas, and a list of European nations for which high taxes do not equal utopia.

You volunteered the NE and the west coast, which from an income disparity and affordability perspective, are not very functional at all. Life sucking commutes, perpetual rentership, limited upwards mobility and income disparity are not the indicators of high quality of life.

You are trying assert statistical significance to something that is a matter of perspective.

I said to look at ALL of the countries.

Are you genuinely trying to argue that the northeast and the west coast aren’t the most successful areas of our country? Really?

 

[JSt0rm]

I said to look at ALL of the countries.

Are you genuinely trying to argue that the northeast and the west coast aren’t the most successful areas of our country? Really?

being successful at god fearing is all that matters.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I said to look at ALL of the countries.

Are you genuinely trying to argue that the northeast and the west coast aren’t the most successful areas of our country? Really?

Are we talking about success in terms of a select few people hoarding vast wealth or are we talking overall quality of life. If we are talking the former, than the NE and west are wildly successful.

 

[Starbuck1975]

being successful at god fearing is all that matters.

I don't fear god. I do fear bureaucrats with "bold" ideas and red tape

 

[Starbuck1975]

That’s not pressure and isnt until large investors start demanding they do it, which really isnt happening so far.They can still borrow more cheaply than the repatriation and will pump up the dividend/buyback with Corp tax savings.

I thought it was an interesting article. It's perhaps not indicative of a broader sentiment, but appropriate criticism all the same.

 

[JSt0rm]

I don't fear god. I do fear bureaucrats with "bold" ideas and red tape

what about corporations with bold ideas and red tape?

 

[Starbuck1975]

what about corporations with bold ideas and red tape?

Equally as bad. You won't find me defending corporate interests. Earlier in this very thread I criticized Apple for its blatant hypocrisy.

 

[brandonbull]

Absolutely. Electorally, the biggest problem dems have right now is too much excess pop situated in certain states like CA and NY which hurts them with the electoral college. Better for dems if some of those people move to red areas and start turning them blue.

So they can drag their failed ideas and policies along with them.

 

[brandonbull]

We call that Capitalism. The market strives for efficient use of capital. It just so happens that American labor is not efficient. So first Wall Street offshores our labor. Soon they will automate it. How would you like to respond to this sort of unbridled use of Capitalism, would you like to try and stop it? And you'd replace it with... what?

How would you restrict and attack the free market?

Me? I'd encourage it. Let them cheapen the cost of goods, let them drive efficiency to the max. But tax them a hefty sum and return that value to the consumers. An ultimate fix for what ails us, by taking the value of lost labor and returning it to the very people we need to keep healthy. To keep Capitalism healthy. We don't have to denounce or attack the market if we can fix it.

American labor not efficient? Wait, what??