People jumping to conclusions

[TheBDB]

I wanted to point out something that I see in nearly every thread here. I'm going to use as an example the thread about a study that says Tea Baggers tend to be racists. This is just an example, I'm not trying to make a political point, just a comment on how people respond.

The data suggests that people who are Tea Party supporters have a higher probability"—25 percent, to be exact—"of being racially resentful than those who are not Tea Party supporters.

This is what the study says.

What it DOESN'T say is:
All Tea Party supporters are racist
Tea Party supporters hate black people
If you agree with the Tea Party about any one thing you are racist
If you disagree with the Tea Party you are racist, or you are not a racist
Believing in smaller government means you are a racist

Can it be true that Tea Party supporters tend to be more racist than the average population, and that's it?? Why do people have to bring up a bunch of crap that doesn't have anything to do with it? People seem to be so invested in arguing that the argument becomes the issue.

The only reason I bring this up is I try to use P&N as a source of different opinions on current events, but man it is hard to stomach so much of the bullshit.

 

[Fern]

Would it be jumping to conclusions to say that "being racially resentful" equals being racist?

Otherwise, around here "jumping to conclusions" is as much a passion as creating strawmen etc.

Fern

 

[JEDIYoda]

I wanted to point out something that I see in nearly every thread here. I'm going to use as an example the thread about a study that says Tea Baggers tend to be racists. This is just an example, I'm not trying to make a political point, just a comment on how people respond.

The data suggests that people who are Tea Party supporters have a higher probability"—25 percent, to be exact—"of being racially resentful than those who are not Tea Party supporters.

This is what the study says.

What it DOESN'T say is:
All Tea Party supporters are racist
Tea Party supporters hate black people
If you agree with the Tea Party about any one thing you are racist
If you disagree with the Tea Party you are racist, or you are not a racist
Believing in smaller government means you are a racist

Can it be true that Tea Party supporters tend to be more racist than the average population, and that's it?? Why do people have to bring up a bunch of crap that doesn't have anything to do with it? People seem to be so invested in arguing that the argument becomes the issue.

The only reason I bring this up is I try to use P&N as a source of different opinions on current events, but man it is hard to stomach so much of the bullshit.

Not to sound rude but thats the nature of the beast......
You will learn my young Jedi the ways of the force....
Then you will know what is correct and what is BS....

 

[Thump553]

OP has an excellent point. I'm also sick of potentially interesting threads almost always veering off into personal hissy fits. Today's Bill Mahr thread is an typical example. The rest of us are not interested in "discussions" along the lines of:

Member A: B is a dick.
Member B: Bull. A is an ass.
Member A: No I'm not. You are.
-and so on. Take the personal feuds to private messages please.

 

[nonlnear]

One thing I hate in journalism statistics is statements like "X is 25% higher than Y" when quantities X and Y are percentages themselves. This statement is used in a totally inconsistent manner, to the point that I refuse to acknowledge it has any meaning unless I see the actual numbers. For example the statement X is 25 percent higher than Y could be used in an article to describe both of these scenarios depending on the desired spin:
Scenario A: X=5%, Y=4%
Scenario B: X=29%, Y=4%

Not to mention the implications of confidence intervals on comparisons like this, especially when the quantities in question are small to begin with.

 

[xj0hnx]

I wanted to point out something that I see in nearly every thread here. I'm going to use as an example the thread about a study that says Tea Baggers tend to be racists. This is just an example, I'm not trying to make a political point, just a comment on how people respond.

The data suggests that people who are Tea Party supporters have a higher probability"—25 percent, to be exact—"of being racially resentful than those who are not Tea Party supporters.

This is what the study says.

What it DOESN'T say is:
All Tea Party supporters are racist
Tea Party supporters hate black people
If you agree with the Tea Party about any one thing you are racist
If you disagree with the Tea Party you are racist, or you are not a racist
Believing in smaller government means you are a racist

Can it be true that Tea Party supporters tend to be more racist than the average population, and that's it?? Why do people have to bring up a bunch of crap that doesn't have anything to do with it? People seem to be so invested in arguing that the argument becomes the issue.

The only reason I bring this up is I try to use P&N as a source of different opinions on current events, but man it is hard to stomach so much of the bullshit.

If you don't see that that smear piece's intention was to paint the Tea Party as racist than you are naive at best.

 

[Moonbeam]

If you don't see that that smear piece's intention was to paint the Tea Party as racist than you are naive at best.

But what of the fact there's not a racist around who will cop to it or see any data that suggests it as an attack.

After all, where are all the racists going to go? The are going to pool at the low points of society, where folk gather to express hate and pretend it's American.

 

[xj0hnx]

But what of the fact there's not a racist around who will cop to it or see any data that suggests it as an attack.

After all, where are all the racists going to go? The are going to pool at the low points of society, where folk gather to express hate and pretend it's American.

But what of the fact there's not a loony leftist that will cop to conservatives actually not agreeing with the policy without having to try attaching racism to them, or see that this is exactly article what I am talking about.

The loony leftist that try to portray conservatives that are against Obama's policies as racist are really just projecting their own self hate.

The reality is that those are the same policies that liberal pols have always pushed, and they (cons) have always been against them, it is no different now that a black man is president, and conservatives wouldn't magically support liberal policy if a white man were president. The loony left is trying to pretend that things would be different, and as always are trying to use the race card because their position can not stand on it's own merits.

 

[Moonbeam]

But what of the fact there's not a loony leftist that will cop to conservatives actually not agreeing with the policy without having to try attaching racism to them, or see that this is exactly article what I am talking about.

The loony leftist that try to portray conservatives that are against Obama's policies as racist are really just projecting their own self hate.

The reality is that those are the same policies that liberal pols have always pushed, and they (cons) have always been against them, it is no different now that a black man is president, and conservatives wouldn't magically support liberal policy if a white man were president. The loony left is trying to pretend that things would be different, and as always are trying to use the race card because their position can not stand on it's own merits.

I don't think conservatives would back liberal policy but they sure as hell would play the race card if the liberal is Black. Race is part of Republican Southern strategy.

 

[xj0hnx]

I don't think conservatives would back liberal policy but they sure as hell would play the race card if the liberal is Black. Race is part of Republican Southern strategy.

The only ones playing the race card are the loony left trying to claim that conservatives that don't support liberal policy are racist as if they would if the president were white. It's pretty pathetic.

 

[cubby1223]

The only reason I bring this up is I try to use P&N as a source of different opinions on current events, but man it is hard to stomach so much of the bullshit.

It ain't just P&N, this kind of shit is what goes on in cable news every single day, on web news sources every single day, and even in the columns of once respectable newspapers every single day.

If you want to get something done, truth is more a hindrance than anything else.

 

[woolfe9999]

Not to sound rude but thats the nature of the beast......
You will learn my young Jedi the ways of the force....
Then you will know what is correct and what is BS....

So true. Young P&N posters are strong in the BS, they are.

- wolf

 

[ShawnD1]

Would it be jumping to conclusions to say that "being racially resentful" equals being racist?

Can anyone explain what this even means? I racially resent Fern. I'm racially resentful. White people are angry that they are not black? Angry that Obama is black? Angry because Obama is not white, but not necessarily because he's black?

 

[PJABBER]

Watch who attacks the messenger because they cannot address the message.

 

[First]

Watch who attacks the messenger yet cannot address the message.

A message which amounts to "Keep your gov't hands off my Medicare"?

lmao.

 

[Danube]

P&N is a good place for really good links to use in other forums. The treads are full of bile but a lot of people read them and don't comment so its not easy to gauge how they play out in full effect.

 

[Descartes]

But what of the fact there's not a loony leftist that will cop to conservatives actually not agreeing with the policy without having to try attaching racism to them, or see that this is exactly article what I am talking about.

The loony leftist that try to portray conservatives that are against Obama's policies as racist are really just projecting their own self hate.

The reality is that those are the same policies that liberal pols have always pushed, and they (cons) have always been against them, it is no different now that a black man is president, and conservatives wouldn't magically support liberal policy if a white man were president. The loony left is trying to pretend that things would be different, and as always are trying to use the race card because their position can not stand on it's own merits.

I'm curious about how you feel about the left, because you don't make it clear in every single post. Personally, I think I'd need to read "loony left" a few more times in a single post for it to make sense.

 

[PeshakJang]

The only ones playing the race card are the loony left trying to claim that conservatives that don't support liberal policy are racist as if they would if the president were white. It's pretty pathetic.

What's pathetic is how bigoted Moonbeam is in just about every post, and what's even more pathetic is that he sees everyone but himself as the bigot, and I doubt many people could hold a torch to how deluded he is. Pathetic, just about the most appropriate way to describe Moonbeam... flat out pathetic.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Watch who attacks the messenger because they cannot address the message.

hard to address the message when the messenger slants or mis-represents the message......

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

It is good to know that you can conclude how racist a group of people is by guessing how racist they are. There are on average 15 green M&Ms per small bag. I know this because I said it and heard it and then wrote it down.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

What's pathetic is how bigoted Moonbeam is in just about every post, and what's even more pathetic is that he sees everyone but himself as the bigot, and I doubt many people could hold a torch to how deluded he is. Pathetic, just about the most appropriate way to describe Moonbeam... flat out pathetic.

Personal attack is personal. U MAD?

I doubt I've agreed with anything the guy has said, but hey, I get to vote once too. It will be great.

 

[Moonbeam]

PJABBER: Watch who attacks the messenger because they cannot address the message.

PJang: What's pathetic is how bigoted Moonbeam is in just about every post, and what's even more pathetic is that he sees everyone but himself as the bigot, and I doubt many people could hold a torch to how deluded he is. Pathetic, just about the most appropriate way to describe Moonbeam... flat out pathetic

M: I see what you mean.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

But what of the fact there's not a racist around who will cop to it or see any data that suggests it as an attack.

After all, where are all the racists going to go? The are going to pool at the low points of society, where folk gather to express hate and pretend it's American.

This, and the point about confidence intervals, are the best in the thread.

 

[zsdersw]

Not to sound rude but thats the nature of the beast......

Not at all. The "nature of the beast" hinges upon each of us who post and, therefore, can change.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm curious about how you feel about the left, because you don't make it clear in every single post. Personally, I think I'd need to read "loony left" a few more times in a single post for it to make sense.

The loony right would get it too, but they aren't in charge of anything.