Pentagon to release prisoner abuse photo's

[AFMatt]

Pentagon to release photos

The Pentagon/Obama administration are finally throwing in the towel on fighting the ACLU case to release prisoner abuse photos. Basically saying the government had no way to win the case. These photos will show how prisoners were treated in prisons all around the Iraq and Afghanistan AORs, not just Abu Ghraib, from 2001 to 2006. The Pentagon has said the photos do not show treatment as bad as what we saw at Abu Ghraib, but it is still bad.

Do you think this is a good idea to release the photos?
Personally, I believe just admitting abuse wasn't limited to Abu Ghraib, and stating the policies of past administrations have been abandoned, would be enough. Releasing the photos will just give al Qaeda and Taliban fighters tons of ammo to help justify their cause.

On a related note, I have always been curious why this has been a battle brought on by the ACLU and not, say, the UN? Last time I checked, the ACLU's mission was to preserve the rights and liberties the Constitution and U.S. laws provide to people in the U.S. These detainees are obviously not Americans, nor are they on US soil.

 

[yllus]

I think a little short-term pain in having this all brought to light is worth the long term gain - making sure that this doesn't happen again (or at least for a long time).

The fact that it's the ACLU bringing this forward is a case of respecting the spirit of your Constitution rather than just the wording of it. People shouldn't lose all of their rights just because they aren't carriers of American passports.

 

[AreaCode707]

The more transparency into government activity the better.

 

[fskimospy]

This torture business is like a boil that needs to be lanced. We've suffered under 6+ years of lies on the subject, and all we've gotten for it is a steady trickle of embarrassing and disgusting news. Bring it all out now, deal with it, and move on... the right way this time.

 

[CanOWorms]

Do you want to advance as a society or stay backwards and continue the mistreatment of those imprisoned? We can choose it to do the right way or the European/Australian way (trying to hide the abuse in their respective refugee centers).

 

[trooper11]

at this point, Ive lost much interest in debating it.

these photos will come out, the media will get there 'sensatianal' stories and then it will be over.

i dont really see how this absolves us in the hearts and minds of the international community, and i dont see this changing the conditions as they are, but at least we will get beyond looking into the past and trying to solve the problems of the present.

 

[trooper11]

im fine with getting passed this, but all i want is everything being released.

if all we are going to get is cherry picked memos or photos, then we will be no better off.

there will be no resolution or any moving forward if they only give us parts of the story they deam worthy.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

Do you think this is a good idea to release the photos?

YES! We need the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Anything else is fiction.

On a related note, I have always been curious why this has been a battle brought on by the ACLU and not, say, the UN? Last time I checked, the ACLU's mission was to preserve the rights and liberties the Constitution and U.S. laws provide to people in the U.S. These detainees are obviously not Americans, nor are they on US soil.

We know at least some captives/prisoners were subjected to torture. The OLC memos prove it. Bush and Cheney have admitted in public statements that they authorized it.

Torture is a crime under U.S. and international law and at least one of those tortured prisoners, Jose Padilla, is a U.S. citizen. The ACLU is right to pursue the facts regarding crimes committed by the Bush administration. Their crimes are not just crimes against individuals; they are crimes against the people of the United States of America, and any case brought against them would be entitled, "United States of America versus (named defendants)."

 

[SirStev0]

shouldn't we be proud of what we are doing?

Why be embarrassed by it? Hell we should make a W/Cheney memorial showing all the horrible things they did over the last few years.

Remember... this stuff worked, right?? we don't have terrorist attacks anymore and Iraq is a completely safe and stable country. Right??


That is the saddest part of the conservative/republican argument. The fact is that we HAVE NOT made the world a better/safer place in the last few years. Now you are suggesting that we should just pretend it didn't happen because it might cause more problems.

We Fucked up. We have to eat it sooner or later.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This torture business is like a boil that needs to be lanced. We've suffered under 6+ years of lies on the subject, and all we've gotten for it is a steady trickle of embarrassing and disgusting news. Bring it all out now, deal with it, and move on... the right way this time.

Well said.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: trooper11
im fine with getting passed this, but all i want is everything being released.

if all we are going to get is cherry picked memos or photos, then we will be no better off.

there will be no resolution or any moving forward if they only give us parts of the story they deam worthy.

Where were you when the CIA was destroying the waterboarding tapes?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: AFMatt
Pentagon to release photos

The Pentagon/Obama administration are finally throwing in the towel on fighting the ACLU case to release prisoner abuse photos. Basically saying the government had no way to win the case. These photos will show how prisoners were treated in prisons all around the Iraq and Afghanistan AORs, not just Abu Ghraib, from 2001 to 2006. The Pentagon has said the photos do not show treatment as bad as what we saw at Abu Ghraib, but it is still bad.

Do you think this is a good idea to release the photos?
Personally, I believe just admitting abuse wasn't limited to Abu Ghraib, and stating the policies of past administrations have been abandoned, would be enough. Releasing the photos will just give al Qaeda and Taliban fighters tons of ammo to help justify their cause.

When the truth is your enemy, because it has bad political effects, you need to consider how you are on the wrong side.

That's what corruption is about - we all are contemptuous of Pravda for printing lies that serve the 'party line', but look how many adopt the same basic tactic.

If there's no pain for wrongdoing, what will stop it - the pain for the truth coming out is a force to pressure us to not repeat the same mistakes in the future.

You can't violate our principles for the freedom of the truth to be known, for citizens to have that truth, in its real form not politically-convenient spun 'summaries', for the purpose of denying something the enemy can use to their advantage - especially when the wat to deny it to them is for the activities not to have happened. Do we just start having the military lie about everything for the purposes of not giving the enemy anything useful? Why don't we just hire the spokemsman for Saddam, then?

Time to send in the renewal to the ACLU, for once again performing an invaluable public service to our democracy.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This torture business is like a boil that needs to be lanced. We've suffered under 6+ years of lies on the subject, and all we've gotten for it is a steady trickle of embarrassing and disgusting news. Bring it all out now, deal with it, and move on... the right way this time.

And take steps so that the information can't be hidden next time, hoping for an Obama.

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: AFMatt
[
Do you think this is a good idea to release the photos?

YES! We need the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Anything else is fiction.

On a related note, I have always been curious why this has been a battle brought on by the ACLU and not, say, the UN? Last time I checked, the ACLU's mission was to preserve the rights and liberties the Constitution and U.S. laws provide to people in the U.S. These detainees are obviously not Americans, nor are they on US soil.

We know at least some captives/prisoners were subjected to torture. The OLC memos prove it. Bush and Cheney have admitted in public statements that they authorized it.

Torture is a crime under U.S. and international law and at least one of those tortured prisoners, Jose Padilla, is a U.S. citizen. The ACLU is right to pursue the facts regarding crimes committed by the Bush administration. Their crimes are not just crimes against individuals; they are crimes against the people of the United States of America, and any case brought against them would be entitled, "United States of America versus (named defendants)."

I agree with you on the torture issue. As far as I know, however, these photos have nothing to do with torture.. At least not in the sense of the torture related to CIA interrogations, Gitmo, etc. That is a completely separate case.
These photos are just mistreatment of detainees by service members at various detainment camps around Iraq and Afghanistan, similar to what we saw with the Abu Ghraib photos (though not as harsh).

 

[JSt0rm]

remember all that hearts and minds crap lol

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

I agree with you on the torture issue. As far as I know, however, these photos have nothing to do with torture.. At least not in the sense of the torture related to CIA interrogations, Gitmo, etc. That is a completely separate case.

NO! It is NOT! They are part and parcel of the same crimes dictated from the highest levels of the Bushwhacko adminstration. Geoffrey Miller, who commanded the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, later helped set up U.S. operations at Abu Ghraib.

Abu Ghraib Tactics Were First Used at Guantanamo

By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 14, 2005; Page A01

Interrogators at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, forced a stubborn detainee to wear women's underwear on his head, confronted him with snarling military working dogs and attached a leash to his chains, according to a newly released military investigation that shows the tactics were employed there months before military police used them on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

The techniques, approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld for use in interrogating Mohamed Qahtani -- the alleged "20th hijacker" in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- were used at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 as part of a special interrogation plan aimed at breaking down the silent detainee.
.
.
(continues)

These photos are just mistreatment of detainees by service members at various detainment camps around Iraq and Afghanistan, similar to what we saw with the Abu Ghraib photos (though not as harsh).

Again, NO! Former Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who ran Iraq prisons in 2003 says the authorization went all the way to the top.

April 22, 2009 10:52 AM

Abu Ghraib Head: We Were Scapegoated

Posted by Michelle Levi

Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who ran Iraq prisons in 2003, including the notorious Abu Ghraib prison was insistent that all orders on interrogation practices came from the top down during the Bush administration on CBS News? The Early Show this morning.

?These soldiers didn't design these techniques on their own?we were following orders,? Karpinski told Harry Smith. ?We were bringing this to our chain of command and they were saying whatever the military intelligence tells you to do out there you are authorized to do."

A new Senate Armed Services Committee report finds that early roots of U.S. interrogation practices were being circulated through the CIA and the Pentagon as early as 2002.

The report also ties the interrogation policies of the Bush administration to abuse cases at Abu Ghraib prison as well as to interrogations at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

After the scandal involving Abu Ghraib?s torture practices, Karpinski was demoted to colonel and has since retired.

Karpinski argued that there was a ?clear? line between the techniques condoned by top level administration officials and the practices condemned in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.

?The line is clear,? she said. ?It went from Washington, D.C. From the very top of the administration with the legal opinions through Bagram to Guantanamo Bay and then to Iraq via the commander from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. And the contractors who were hired to do those things.?

Karpiniski was insistent that she and the soldiers prosecuted were ?scapegoated? by superiors in the administration.

?Scapegoat is the perfect word and it's an understatement,? she said. ?Right now, with the hard, fast facts in those memos, the black and white proof, the administration is suggesting that those operatives should be immune from any investigations or persecution.?

Video of Janis Karpinski's interview on CBS

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: AFMatt

I agree with you on the torture issue. As far as I know, however, these photos have nothing to do with torture.. At least not in the sense of the torture related to CIA interrogations, Gitmo, etc. That is a completely separate case.

NO! It is NOT! They are part and parcel of the same crimes dictated from the highest levels of the Bushwhacko adminstration. Geoffrey Miller, who commanded the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, later helped set up U.S. operations at Abu Ghraib.

Abu Ghraib Tactics Were First Used at Guantanamo

By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 14, 2005; Page A01

Interrogators at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, forced a stubborn detainee to wear women's underwear on his head, confronted him with snarling military working dogs and attached a leash to his chains, according to a newly released military investigation that shows the tactics were employed there months before military police used them on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

The techniques, approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld for use in interrogating Mohamed Qahtani -- the alleged "20th hijacker" in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- were used at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 as part of a special interrogation plan aimed at breaking down the silent detainee.
.
.
(continues)

These photos are just mistreatment of detainees by service members at various detainment camps around Iraq and Afghanistan, similar to what we saw with the Abu Ghraib photos (though not as harsh).

April 22, 2009 10:52 AM

Abu Ghraib Head: We Were Scapegoated

Posted by Michelle Levi

Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who ran Iraq prisons in 2003, including the notorious Abu Ghraib prison was insistent that all orders on interrogation practices came from the top down during the Bush administration on CBS News? The Early Show this morning.

?These soldiers didn't design these techniques on their own?we were following orders,? Karpinski told Harry Smith. ?We were bringing this to our chain of command and they were saying whatever the military intelligence tells you to do out there you are authorized to do."

A new Senate Armed Services Committee report finds that early roots of U.S. interrogation practices were being circulated through the CIA and the Pentagon as early as 2002.

The report also ties the interrogation policies of the Bush administration to abuse cases at Abu Ghraib prison as well as to interrogations at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

After the scandal involving Abu Ghraib?s torture practices, Karpinski was demoted to colonel and has since retired.

Karpinski argued that there was a ?clear? line between the techniques condoned by top level administration officials and the practices condemned in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.

?The line is clear,? she said. ?It went from Washington, D.C. From the very top of the administration with the legal opinions through Bagram to Guantanamo Bay and then to Iraq via the commander from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. And the contractors who were hired to do those things.?

Karpiniski was insistent that she and the soldiers prosecuted were ?scapegoated? by superiors in the administration.

?Scapegoat is the perfect word and it's an understatement,? she said. ?Right now, with the hard, fast facts in those memos, the black and white proof, the administration is suggesting that those operatives should be immune from any investigations or persecution.?

Video of Janis Karpinski's interview on CBS[/quote]
Remember the feigned outrage from those cocksuckers in the Bush Administration when those pics came out?