" Pentagon loses track of weapons for Iraqi forces"

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
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Link

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon cannot account for 190,000 AK-47 rifles and pistols given to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, or about half the weapons earmarked for soldiers and police, according to a government report.

190,000 AK-47 rifles and pistols?

WTF? Can they really be that inept, or do these weapons end up being sold on the black market? Horrifying, either way.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Link

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon cannot account for 190,000 AK-47 rifles and pistols given to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, or about half the weapons earmarked for soldiers and police, according to a government report.

190,000 AK-47 rifles and pistols?

WTF? Can they really be that inept, or do these weapons end up being sold on the black market? Horrifying, either way.


This is what happens when you get blank checks to do whatever you want with
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: bamacre
Link

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon cannot account for 190,000 AK-47 rifles and pistols given to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, or about half the weapons earmarked for soldiers and police, according to a government report.

190,000 AK-47 rifles and pistols?

WTF? Can they really be that inept, or do these weapons end up being sold on the black market? Horrifying, either way.


This is what happens when you get blank checks to do whatever you want with

And no accountability, either. :(
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: bamacre
And no accountability, either. :(
I wouldn't say they're "lost".

Instead, think of it as a new "purchase opportunity" for the American taxpayers.

Put a positive spin on things ;)
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
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They lost the keys to Los Alamos.

Do you really think that losing some guns is beyond that level of incompetency? :laugh:
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
They lost the keys to Los Alamos.

Do you really think that losing some guns is beyond that level of incompetency? :laugh:

I don't think 110,000 AK-47 rifles is equivalent to "some guns." ;)
 

Turkish

Lifer
May 26, 2003
15,549
1
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They are not lost but more like sold to Iraqi insurgents and Kurdish terrorists on the north.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
190,000 weapons? Heh.

The entire small arms and explosive contents of several huge Iraqi arms depots and at least $9B (yeh, Nine Beeelyon) in cash are also missing...

First they wuz there, and then they wuz jus' gone, and nobody saw nuthin'... Musta bin teh ebil eye-ray-nyuns...

$9B isn't just a lot of money, it's physically huge, well beyond the capabilities of mere pilferage. Here's what $200M looks like, so figure 50X as big a pile-

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WO...8/02/mexico.agents.ap/
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
1
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
They lost the keys to Los Alamos.

Do you really think that losing some guns is beyond that level of incompetency? :laugh:

I don't think 110,000 AK-47 rifles is equivalent to "some guns." ;)

Compared to the nuclear secrets of the US... Yes, 110,000 AK-47s is 'some guns'

Not that that's a good thing or that I'm dismissing it. But in response to the OPs question about "can they really be that incompetent'... Yes. They can. And then some...
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Of coruse they can be. Look at the commander in chief if you don't believe me. "Mission Accomplished"
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,995
49,761
136
I don't actually think this is terribly surprising. Think about it, you have a country in chaos with security forces of dubious loyalty that you're trying to get to help you.

We probably give them weapons knowing full well that a lot of those weapons are going to go missing, etc... etc. If you have decided that arming and supporting the Iraqi militia/security forces is something necessary in order to have a chance of stabilizing Iraq though, what are your other options? The whole thing is just a calculated risk that arming them will increase their effectiveness more then the weapons you lose will help the insurgents/death squads.

While 200,000 seems like an awful lot to me, the basic premise of losing a whole bunch of weapons in that hellhole in this situation isn't at all shocking.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
While 200,000 seems like an awful lot to me, the basic premise of losing a whole bunch of weapons in that hellhole in this situation isn't at all shocking.
Is it not shocking to you because you know the war is mismanaged at so many levels?

200k seems shocking because it is. This is a country with a population of only 25 million, so that really is quite a damn lot of machine guns.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I trust you're referring to the misplaced removeable HDD's as the "keys to Los Alamos", Whoozyerdaddy. There's really no evidence that they left the facility... and nobody's offered up the lame excuse that there just wasn't enough money to keep track of 'em...

They were eventually found- do you think we'll find the "misplaced" weapons quite so easily?
 
Feb 24, 2001
14,550
4
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My cousin's husband is in the Army and spent months dealing with these guys.

They show up for training, are given their guns and equipment, then go home for the night. The next day they come back to training and claim the stuff was stolen. The higher ups tell them just to give them more.

He said it's obvious where the guns and ammo are going, and the recruits don't care, money trumps all.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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No matter what the question---when you ask---can they really be that inept?---its almost a no brainer that the answer will be yes. Especially when you get neocons who specialize in grand visions and leave the details to the little people. The devil is always in the details.

No one single person could possibly be that dumb---but when you get a bunch of smart people together there is a synergistic effect and then they often do some really really dumb things.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
While 200,000 seems like an awful lot to me, the basic premise of losing a whole bunch of weapons in that hellhole in this situation isn't at all shocking.
Is it not shocking to you because you know the war is mismanaged at so many levels?

200k seems shocking because it is. This is a country with a population of only 25 million, so that really is quite a damn lot of machine guns.

I didnt see any machine guns mentioned in the report. :confused:


 
Feb 24, 2001
14,550
4
81
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Skoorb
While 200,000 seems like an awful lot to me, the basic premise of losing a whole bunch of weapons in that hellhole in this situation isn't at all shocking.
Is it not shocking to you because you know the war is mismanaged at so many levels?

200k seems shocking because it is. This is a country with a population of only 25 million, so that really is quite a damn lot of machine guns.

I didnt see any machine guns mentioned in the report. :confused:

Majority are Glock pistols and some AK variant which are automatics.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
190,000 weapons? Heh.

The entire small arms and explosive contents of several huge Iraqi arms depots and at least $9B (yeh, Nine Beeelyon) in cash are also missing...

First they wuz there, and then they wuz jus' gone, and nobody saw nuthin'... Musta bin teh ebil eye-ray-nyuns...

$9B isn't just a lot of money, it's physically huge, well beyond the capabilities of mere pilferage. Here's what $200M looks like, so figure 50X as big a pile-

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WO...8/02/mexico.agents.ap/
And the worst part of it is that many of those guns, many of those explosives, and much of that $9 Billion is now being used to kill Americans. Mission Accomplished, Georgie; you're doing a heck of a job.

:(
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91



Yep; we used to train Iraqi soldiers on our FOB and of course they were handed weapons. The regular soldiers received an AK and the officers received a Glock 9mm. And like another poster above says, they would leave for the night and come back without a weapon saying it was stolen, or sometimes they would not come back at all. The Glocks especially, used to catch a hefty price on the black market.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,791
6,226
126
OK, what happened to my 200,000 machine guns? I had them sitting right here.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Not only have we 'lost' almost 200,000 weapons, we have successfully trained nearly 200,000 insurgents to fight against us with those same weapons.
The Iraqi 'Police' are mostly our enemy who signed up for our training techniques, then take the weapons we give them, disapear into the shadows,
and wait to fight our troops on their terms in their familiar locations.
We have trained far more 'insurgents' to fight against us than we have troops in the country to maintain our presence there.

 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Here's something that equally pisses me about this story (along with the loss of the weaponry).....

Glock - Austrian handgun
AK-47 - Russian (and assorted other countries that are pissed at us) assault rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47)

Not only are our leaders incompetent, but they aren't even selling American made guns to these fvckers. Now, not only are we arming the insurgency once again, but we are hurting our own weapon's manufacturers and economy in the process!!!
 

imported_Tango

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2005
1,623
0
0
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Here's something that equally pisses me about this story (along with the loss of the weaponry).....

Glock - Austrian handgun
AK-47 - Russian (and assorted other countries that are pissed at us) assault rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47)

Not only are our leaders incompetent, but they aren't even selling American made guns to these fvckers. Now, not only are we arming the insurgency once again, but we are hurting our own weapon's manufacturers and economy in the process!!!

The US is the largest purchaser of Kalashnikov guns since quite a long time now. It is well known that no other weapon stands the abuses of harsh climatic conditions like the AK and basically never stops working no matter what. What good would do to arm people with an American made gun that requires a level of maintenance that the average Iraqi police officer would have a hard time providing, giving the conditions in Iraq.

Also, since a lot of countries are producing AKs under both legal and illegal licensing from Russia, these can be pretty cheap these days.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Skoorb
While 200,000 seems like an awful lot to me, the basic premise of losing a whole bunch of weapons in that hellhole in this situation isn't at all shocking.
Is it not shocking to you because you know the war is mismanaged at so many levels?

200k seems shocking because it is. This is a country with a population of only 25 million, so that really is quite a damn lot of machine guns.

I didnt see any machine guns mentioned in the report. :confused:

Majority are Glock pistols and some AK variant which are automatics.

AK is not a machine gun.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,676
3,070
136
when will the obscene failures stop? congrats GW and company for arming the enemy that you created.