penryn vs nehalem

[taltamir]

Ok I am getting a bit confused here... whats the difference?

I thought nehalem is supposed to replace the C2D... but then penryn comes along instead... And what the heck are the codenames for these? I know allendale and merom and conroe...

But what is wolfdale (as far as I know wolfdale is quad core isn't it? so what about the dual core?) I thought penryn and nehalem are supposed to be codenames for chip designs. (like conroe)... not codenames for a family (which contains chips like wolfdale).

Can someone sum up the information on those please?

 

[chinaman1472]

Penryn are the new C2D chipsets. The two families are the Wolfdale and Yorkfield. Wolfdales are dual core, Yorkfields are quad cores. Nehalem will be next generation of C2D (and probably quad cores), currently scheduled for 2nd Quarter 2009 I believe.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Ok I am getting a bit confused here... whats the difference?

Penryn is mostly a 45nm die shrink of the existing last generation architecture . . . mostly. Whereas Nehalem is a whole new architecture on 45nm, one year after Penryn.

This is Intel's 2-year Tick-Tock cycle, Tick is the die shrink, Tock is the next gen architecture.

So at 32nm, Nehalem will remain largely unchanged but be shrunk to 32nm and a year later we'll see yet another new architecture.

Tick - Tock!!!

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: chinaman1472
Penryn are the new C2D chipsets.

Penryn is NOT a chipset, Penryn is a CPU architecture family name. Chipsets are North bridge memory controllers and South bridge I/O controllers.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit

Originally posted by: taltamir
Ok I am getting a bit confused here... whats the difference?

Penryn is mostly a 45nm die shrink of the existing last generation architecture . . . mostly. Whereas Nehalem is a whole new architecture on 45nm, one year after Penryn.

This is Intel's 2-year Tick-Tock cycle, Tick is the die shrink, Tock is the next gen architecture.

So at 32nm, Nehalem will remain largely unchanged but be shrunk to 32nm and a year later we'll see yet another new architecture.

Tick - Tock!!!

yea this definately rung a bell as i remember a discussion like this before c2d's came out

 

[rpv]

Is Nehalem the chip that incorporates the memory controller in the chip itself or am I confusing it with something else.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Nehalem will have memory controller on die . It also has Quik path . AN improved version HT. Nehalem Also will have hyper threading. . It will have 3 or 4 differant sockets and have Gpu on die with cpu in the lowend parts .(fusion) It said that one model will not have ondie memory controller.

Intel has gone in a new direction with this chip as it will have differant sockets in differant sectors. mobile/ lowend desktop / middle highend desktop / Server.

You will no longer beable to buy a lowend chip and have it = the highend stuff. I think this is a good thing but I am sure others think it sucks.

 

[Tempered81]

ah, so you cant buy a celeron 1200 socket 775 & a qx9770 socket 755, like whats possible now. they're probably going to seperate it somewhere in the middle like the e6xxx series and up would have been the enthusiast socket.

 

[taltamir]

I understand that they are next gen architectures... but what and where? From reading on wikipedia (which I try to avoid...)

From my reading so far... penryn is the replacement for merom. Being a 45nm core2 laptop processor.
Wolfdale is a 45nm core2 desktop processor replacing conroe, very similar to penryn, and is coming out soon.

Nehalem is "in the future" and will replace Core2.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Intel has gone in a new direction with this chip as it will have differant sockets in differant sectors. mobile/ lowend desktop / middle highend desktop / Server.

You will no longer beable to buy a lowend chip and have it = the highend stuff. I think this is a good thing but I am sure others think it sucks.

I have a hard time understanding how you think this is a good thing as a consumer or tech geek, unless you hold Intel stocks. This is nothing more than arbitrary market division, purely driven by economics. With the demise of FSB subsystem, Intel's chipset dept. need to make revenues and this is what they come up with. (Since otherwise anyone can make a motherboard with just south bridges)

If this truly materializes, it will be sad.

 

[taltamir]

It will truely materialize when AMD is no longer a factor... if AMD comes up with something good that is still a threat then it will either be scrapped, or the two will be competitive again, simply on account of inter ripping its customers off, balacing their otherwise superior bang per buck CPUs...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Lopri Tou have to think differant now . Intel has to make money in the lowend . They Have to. It not About us anymore its the World. Intel has to beable to sell a quality low end part that makes money.

I don't want those parts. Niether do you. I don't know were you guys think Intel is going with prices . But YOUR thinking is wrong . THE middle and Highend desktop have the same socket. SO That Middle isn't going to stink up the place. Its going to be GOOD.

The highend . That $1000 + cpu. IS finely going to be worth the premium. Now You tell me whats wrong with that.

 

[Dadofamunky]

If I understand correctly, here is what I "know:"

Nehalem is native 32 nm, integrated memory controller, monolithic four-core and/or eight core. No 45 nm Nehalem. This will also be the first Intel four-core to be monolithic. All other up to it are 2x2 dies in one package. Not that it's much of an issue performance wise now; it'll be interesting to see how the IMC affects throughput and performance.

Taltamir, Penryn is a desktop CPU line. There will be mobile Penryns but the mobile versions are always a different beast.

 

[Dadofamunky]

If I understand correctly, here is what I "know:"

Nehalem is native 32 nm, integrated memory controller, monolithic four-core and/or eight core. No 45 nm Nehalem. This will also be the first Intel four-core to be monolithic. All other up to it are 2x2 dies in one package. Not that it's much of an issue performance wise now; it'll be interesting to see how the IMC affects throughput and performance.

Taltamir, Penryn is a desktop CPU line. There will be mobile Penryns but the mobile versions are always a different beast.

 

[Dadofamunky]

If I understand correctly, here is what I "know:"

Nehalem is native 32 nm, integrated memory controller, monolithic four-core and/or eight core. No 45 nm Nehalem. This will also be the first Intel four-core to be monolithic. All other up to it are 2x2 dies in one package. Not that it's much of an issue performance wise now; it'll be interesting to see how the IMC affects throughput and performance.

Taltamir, Penryn is a desktop CPU line. There will be mobile Penryns but the mobile versions are always a different beast.

 

[Phunk0ne]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Lopri Tou have to think differant now . Intel has to make money in the lowend . They Have to. It not About us anymore its the World. Intel has to beable to sell a quality low end part that makes money.

I really do not know in what kind fantasy world you live in, but Intel has never had the tweakers/overclockers in mind, with the exception of the extreme models. If you fry your extreme cpu, you can wave goodbye to your hard earned cash. Mind you that even with the C2Ds being OC champs, Intel does not warrant overclocking at all.

Intel has always made most its money in the low-end of the market, more specifically the OEM market. Think of system builders such as HP, DELL, eMachines positioning their products to your average consumers who just wants a pc, not a overclock monster.

Besides, Intel has always have had different sockets in different sectors.
- Mobile
- Desktop
- Server

So what if there is going to be a different socket for the low-end market? Sure enough motherboard manufactures will come with motherboards that might get out the potential of the low-end cpu's. The only problem you'll face it to make a decision with the budget that you have in that point of time and how much you are willing to shell out for a new system.

Besides, it is way to early to start bickering about the upcoming sockets with Nehalem. Untill we see what we as consumers have to pay, I am just going to sit back and relax, and enjoy and upgrade to a quadcore penryn in a few.

the only possible problem we as consumers might be faced with, is with AMD's financial and production trouble. I am by no means nor an AMD or INTEL fan, I just buy the best cpu I can get my hands on with the idea of being the best overclockable for my budget (I really do not care about price/performance ratio). But if AMD should disappear from the stage around the time Nehalem is going to be released, we all will be looking at some crazy prices fitting for kings and queens.

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
If I understand correctly, here is what I "know:"

Nehalem is native 32 nm, integrated memory controller, monolithic four-core and/or eight core. No 45 nm Nehalem. This will also be the first Intel four-core to be monolithic. All other up to it are 2x2 dies in one package. Not that it's much of an issue performance wise now; it'll be interesting to see how the IMC affects throughput and performance.

Taltamir, Penryn is a desktop CPU line. There will be mobile Penryns but the mobile versions are always a different beast.

Play it again Sam.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Hay I am getting tired of this . Look Intels back is up against the wall . What part of that don't you understand. You corner an wild animal and your asking for trouble.

AMD is sueing intel for a huge amount of money. I think most of us know AMD has never had the fab capacity to compete with intel its that simple. IF amd had fab capitity during the rein of AMD 64 all AMD had to do was lower the price and sold higher volumn to pick up even greater market share . But AMD was already at capacity. So they sold at high prices. To my knowledge it is Intel that brought prices down from 2 years ago. With C2D introduction. Intels lowend beat AMD high end so AMD had to beat Intels low end price. With their high end. $400 x2-3800 anybody.


Intel has to beat AMD down to a pulp to show courts that amd can't compete and that why they are were they are. GET over it. So intel is really seriously going after the low end .

This lawsuite isn't about a few million. its billions. Intel is doing the only thing they can do.
AMD did this to themseves.

 

[21stHermit]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
If I understand correctly, here is what I "know:"

Nehalem is native 32 nm, . . . . No 45 nm Nehalem.

Clearly you know not. Nehalem is 45nm. This process node, 45nm, first started shipping in Nov `07, it'll go for at least the next two years. After that we'll see 32nm.


I've seen many a double posts, but triple posts?!?!?

 

[Phunk0ne]

Hay I am getting tired of this . Look Intels back is up against the wall . What part of that don't you understand. You corner an wild animal and your asking for trouble.

Intel's back against the wall? It is AMD that has it's back against the wall. Intel is enjoying free reign in terms of sales with their C2D line-up (Conroe and soon Penryn).

You are really contradicting yourself. If Intel really had its back against the wall, we would've seen Intel suing AMD. We would've seen Intel struggle with production, we would've seen more pc vendors with AMD hardware inside. But no, what we see instead is AMD that is suing Intel, we see Intel that has the largest market share in PC Vendor land, etc etc etc . . .

just to put it into numbers and AMD only has a 23.5% market share whereas Intel enjoys a 76.3%.
Worldwide PC Processor Market Hits Record Levels of Unit Shipments in 3Q07, According to IDC

AMD now worth less than it paid for ATI

Intel, AMD?s major competitor in the CPU business, has been on a roll for the past 18 months and is now worth around US$162 billion, which makes the chip giant more than 32 times the size of AMD in monetary terms.

so again, who's back is against the wall?

Intel has to beat AMD down to a pulp to show courts that AMD can't compete and that why they are were they are. GET over it. So Intel is really seriously going after the low end .

Intel and AMD have always fought it out on the low-end segment of the market. Intel always had a very strong and serious presence in the low-end market. It is called "CELERON", Intel's budget line-up for the low-end market. And just so you now, the Celeron line-up has been around for 10 years already, so how is that not serious enough?:
Wiki

 

[Nemesis 1]

Whats the size of intel got to do with it. AMD is sueing intel for 60 billion . Whos back is against the wall.Thats the amount AMD lawyers fixed on intels illeagal business practices. So this lwsuite is before AMD 64. So How good was K7. How hot was K6 . How late was K5 . How late was K8. How late was K10.

I can't recall but didn't freescale do AMD cpu's for awhile. Up to 130nm. Or was it up to K6, Intel spent money advertiizing . Intel built Fabs. Every time AMD got the performance lead from intel it was only a short time. Until K8. AMD never gained enough momentum to make enough money to build more fabs.

You know this lawsuite can only go back to the last lawsuite between the 2. Nor can it go forward from when it was filed. Unless intel CEO is retarded and did what ever wrong AMD was claiming after the suite was filed.

Sanders filed same lawsuite against intel and lost.

Why didn't AMD make a Deal with Charter sooner. Rather than wait for intel to over take them .

No intels back is against the wall to the tune of 60 billion. If I was in a business and an upstart tried overtaking me. I would do whats necessary. You guys act like Intel should give away the market they built.

Every Cpu that amd sells . Intel get a profit from . Factor that in to the picture of why they can't compete.
Intel didn't just give AMD x86 license.

 

[taltamir]

I thought intel was forced to give it up due to loosing a previous lawsuit. Which means that AMD does not have to pay them royalties.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I follow this stuff close . Never read such a thing . Show link. Or amd is still paying threw noze. Must remember when agreement was made CPU=$$$$$.

 

[THERESONATOR]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Nehalem will have memory controller on die

This comes, as I read, because AMD have this feature on the Phenom and (possibly other CPUs) its one of its better features, certainly where it has the upper hand over current Intel CPUs.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
If I understand correctly, here is what I "know:"

Nehalem is native 32 nm, integrated memory controller, monolithic four-core and/or eight core. No 45 nm Nehalem. This will also be the first Intel four-core to be monolithic. All other up to it are 2x2 dies in one package. Not that it's much of an issue performance wise now; it'll be interesting to see how the IMC affects throughput and performance.

Taltamir, Penryn is a desktop CPU line. There will be mobile Penryns but the mobile versions are always a different beast.

Play it again Sam.

Yeah, that was a total accident based on a crappy wireless connection. Apologies.