Pennsylvania House Bill 521 requires gun owners to carry insurance

[Agent11]

They can't pass a constitutional amendment so they will keep throwing shit and hoping it sticks, their endgame goal is the same however.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Insurance is a penalty? Will call Department of Motor vehicles tomorrow to see if they can help me save ~$1800 year...

Driving isn't a right last I checked. Even if it were how do you suppose those less fortunate than ourselves (we all make 10k a week here ya know), or criminals for that matter, pay their insurance?

 

[monovillage]

Insurance is a penalty? Will call Department of Motor vehicles tomorrow to see if they can help me save ~$1800 year...

How about if people had to buy insurance to vote? How about buying insurance to say stupid things? How about buying insurance to go to a church or mosque or synagogue?
Requiring insurance for practicing a right is patently unconstitutional.

 

[Brovane]

How about if people had to buy insurance to vote? How about buying insurance to say stupid things? How about buying insurance to go to a church or mosque or synagogue?
Requiring insurance for practicing a right is patently unconstitutional.

Is a carry permit a right?

 

[monovillage]

Is a carry permit a right?

In my opinion a carry permit is an infringement of 2nd Amendment Rights and should be struck down in court. It isn't and it won't be, but it's still an infringement. Charging hundreds of dollars for a carry permit and also requiring training and the cost of training/certificate is also an infringement.
I'm of the opinion if it can't be applied to 1st or 4th or 15th amendment rights it shouldn't be able to be applied to the 2nd.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Is a carry permit a right?

yes it is. Maryland has for its history AFAIK been a "may issue" state where you need to provide a reason for a CCW. Recently, Maryland's courts ruled that this was unconstitutional - their logic was that a citizen need not given a reason for exercising their right, the very existence of that right is the only reason needed.

Maryland's state attorney is appealing the ruling so a stay is currently in place.

So yes, CCW is a right. The restrictions on that right (who qualifies and how) are obviously subject to considerable debate.

 

[monovillage]

Is a carry permit a right?

For the record i'm also opposed to parade or protest permits where a city/state/county has to issue a permit for people to assemble and can charge them for security and also require them to have insurance. It's a right and the those type of restrictions should not be constitutional.

 

[todpod]

This isn't going to pass. The bill sponsors are all Democrats, and the house will a solid Republican majority, + governor. A couple of Links

http://openstates.org/pa/bills/2013-2014/HB521/?show_all_sponsors=True

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_House_of_Representatives

 

[JEDIYoda]

Because poor popole wont' be able to afford it . .. they're just going to price everyone out of being legally allowed to own and carry a firearm.... except the rich and polititians

awwww get a better job..............

 

[JEDIYoda]

Absolutely not. Here in Virginia, they allowed concealed carry into alcohol serving establishments about two years ago. Preposterous on its face. And the streets have not yet dried from all of the blood that has been shed because of this.

just a wee bit of a exageration....nothing wrong with not telling the truth.....lol

 

[cybrsage]

Then this bill is in response to the massive wave of illegitimate uses of guns by concealed carry permit holders, while carrying concealed. It's a literal epidemic of occurences across the country. Clearly something needs to be done about it, something like this proposal.

Can you post a link to this massive wave? Or create a list of this massive wave supported by links? I expect a list of at least 1,000 items to even consider it a minor wave, so you have your work cut out for you.

 

[cybrsage]

Insurance is a penalty? Will call Department of Motor vehicles tomorrow to see if they can help me save ~$1800 year...

Can you show me the enumerated right to drive a car? Thanks!

 

[cybrsage]

Is a carry permit a right?

Yes, it is the "bear" portion of the "Right to bear arms...".

Don't worry, a lot of people do not notice it until pointed out, it hides in plain sight.

 

[Brovane]

In my opinion a carry permit is an infringement of 2nd Amendment Rights and should be struck down in court. It isn't and it won't be, but it's still an infringement. Charging hundreds of dollars for a carry permit and also requiring training and the cost of training/certificate is also an infringement.
I'm of the opinion if it can't be applied to 1st or 4th or 15th amendment rights it shouldn't be able to be applied to the 2nd.

Not saying I agree with you 100% but I can see the logic and at least you are consistent. :thumbsup:

 

[Brovane]

Yes, it is the "bear" portion of the "Right to bear arms...".

Don't worry, a lot of people do not notice it until pointed out, it hides in plain sight.

Has their been a SCOTUS ruling affirming that right?

 

[cybrsage]

Has their been a SCOTUS ruling affirming that right?

Affirming that the Second Amendment is part of the Constitution? I do not know of any specific rulings about that. There is a case where the SCOTUS incorporated the Second Amendment, making it binding on the states, though.

Amendment II
Right to keep and bear arms

• This right has been incorporated against the states. See McDonald v. Chicago (2010).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_bill_of_rights


It would be very difficult for anyone to try and argue that "bear arms" does not mean "carry arms", in this instance.

We do know there are expected limits on the Second Amendment as to the type of arms private citizens can own. No chemical, biological, or nuclear arms. No howitzers, no F-35s, etc. The debate on gun control is not really on whether there should be limits, but where the limits are to be placed.

 

[cybrsage]

In my opinion a carry permit is an infringement of 2nd Amendment Rights and should be struck down in court. It isn't and it won't be, but it's still an infringement. Charging hundreds of dollars for a carry permit and also requiring training and the cost of training/certificate is also an infringement.
I'm of the opinion if it can't be applied to 1st or 4th or 15th amendment rights it shouldn't be able to be applied to the 2nd.

I agree with you, including that the courts will never strike it down.

 

[1prophet]

Because poor popole wont' be able to afford it . .. they're just going to price everyone out of being legally allowed to own and carry a firearm.... except the rich and polititians

Exactly, like a poll tax or requiring voter ID, and since the poor are usually minorities it's racist too.:whiste:

 

[cybrsage]

Exactly, like a poll tax or requiring voter ID, and since the poor are usually minorities it's racist too.:whiste:

Voter ID's are free.

 

[Brovane]

Affirming that the Second Amendment is part of the Constitution? I do not know of any specific rulings about that. There is a case where the SCOTUS incorporated the Second Amendment, making it binding on the states, though.


[/LIST]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_bill_of_rights


It would be very difficult for anyone to try and argue that "bear arms" does not mean "carry arms", in this instance.

We do know there are expected limits on the Second Amendment as to the type of arms private citizens can own. No chemical, biological, or nuclear arms. No howitzers, no F-35s, etc. The debate on gun control is not really on whether there should be limits, but where the limits are to be placed.

I am asking about specifically the right to carry arms and not to have to get a CCW to bear arms in a public place. I am not aware of any court ruling upholding this right. I know in CA you cannot even carry unloaded firearms publicly.

 

[Agent11]

CA has a lot of stupid laws.

 

[cybrsage]

I am asking about specifically the right to carry arms and not to have to get a CCW to bear arms in a public place. I am not aware of any court ruling upholding this right. I know in CA you cannot even carry unloaded firearms publicly.

I live in PA, and we are a "Shall Issue" state, which means that unless you have proven yourself to be a public menace already they must issue you a concealed carry permit. I have not bothered to follow the happenings of other states.

I applied for my concealed carry permit today (pick it up next week). The county sheriff's satellite office I went to said they are overwhelmed with new people applying for permits. So much so that they are going to start only doing new permits at the downtown courthouse and allow only renewals at the satellite office. He said he has not seen this many new applicants ever.

 

[tweaker2]

Can you show me the enumerated right to drive a car? Thanks!

Well, down the flusher goes the argument using the comparison of deaths caused by vehicles and firearms I guess.

 

[cybrsage]

Well, down the flusher goes the argument using the comparison of deaths caused by vehicles and firearms I guess.

I wonder, what is the percentage of deaths per capita by cars? I know I can easily find it for guns. OK, found it:

In fact, the World Health Organizations estimates that traffic related deaths are the leading cause of death in the world.

United States – 12.3 deaths per 100,000 people

http://drivesteady.com/cars-per-capita

Here are the gun stats:

This is a historical list of countries by firearm-related death-rate per 100,000 population in one year.

United States10.2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Cars are more dangerous than guns.

 

[Triumph]

I wonder, what is the percentage of deaths per capita by cars? I know I can easily find it for guns. OK, found it:


http://drivesteady.com/cars-per-capita

The gun statistics are older, but I could find nothing newer:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Cars are more dangerous than guns.

And more than half of those are suicide by gun. So meh. The chances of any individual dying by suicide is completely irrelevant to the conversation on gun control. I have a 0% chance of dying by suicide.