Pelosi: Our Coasts Need Lasting Protection from Oil and Gas Drilling

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Woofmeister

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2004
1,384
0
76
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: K1052


I hate to break it to you but your utility company stilll burns fossil fuels or purchases power from those who do or use nuclear.

I live in nuke free area, and like I said in post before this I pay extra to use hydro and wind on my electric bill, it is the least I can do. Although if you get regular plan it is a mixture of mainly natural gas and hydro/wind here. But the gas generators are brand new super efficient ones I hear. *shrug*

I dunno thats pg&e's thing, hopefully when I move back into my place I will be off the electric grid again soon enough again.

Hey Steeplerot, does Pacific Gas and Electric (I assume that's whom you are referring to) really have a program that allows you to pay extra in order to have them deliver power to you from renewable sources? I've never heard of that here in the East. That would be a good idea for environmentally conscious consumers but I don't understand how that would work since electricity is delivered from the one single power grid.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,424
478
126
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The first thing we would have to do is quit importing and exporting.

Lots of fuel is wasted in the act of broad commerce.

Second. We go back to living near where we work.

Realize that tourism is dead and quit worrying about it.

Eliminate the monetary system and go back to bartering.

Eliminate allowing those to live in a climate that requires heating in the winter.

This is a good start.

You can tell who owns oil stock around here! Mwaowowowowwwwwww. :(

I dont own any oil stock...but think about it...what happens if all the oil were gone tomorrow?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,382
33,803
136
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The first thing we would have to do is quit importing and exporting.

Lots of fuel is wasted in the act of broad commerce.

Second. We go back to living near where we work.

Realize that tourism is dead and quit worrying about it.

Eliminate the monetary system and go back to bartering.

Eliminate allowing those to live in a climate that requires heating in the winter.

This is a good start.

You can tell who owns oil stock around here! Mwaowowowowwwwwww. :(

Well I suppose it is easier to pigeonhole people than actually debate them. You must have graduated from Dave's School of Posting. :thumbsup:
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: Woofmeister
Hey Steeplerot, does Pacific Gas and Electric (I assume that's whom you are referring to) really have a program that allows you to pay extra in order to have them deliver power to you from renewable sources? I've never heard of that here in the East. That would be a good idea for environmentally conscious consumers but I don't understand how that would work since electricity is delivered from the one single power grid.

Obviously power can't be directed from a particular source, so I have to imagine those programs are an accounting thing. Anybody that specifies the renewable energy option has their payments earmarked, and the accountants put them in a separate category. Then when the determine the profitability of any particular power source, it takes that into account and further power expansion plans are determined that way. Following that logic, if enough people specify renewable energy that all of the production from those sources is spoken for, there's a good chance that expansions would include more sources of that type since their profitability on paper is higher than traditional sources.

That's the only way I could logically see it working.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The first thing we would have to do is quit importing and exporting.

Lots of fuel is wasted in the act of broad commerce.

Second. We go back to living near where we work.

Realize that tourism is dead and quit worrying about it.

Eliminate the monetary system and go back to bartering.

Eliminate allowing those to live in a climate that requires heating in the winter.

This is a good start.

You can tell who owns oil stock around here! Mwaowowowowwwwwww. :(
better than the solutions that you are proposing

 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
0
0
Ummm, I believe the author of that post was being sarcastic, Mr. Mod Sir. It is telling that you consider them to be serious "solutions" though. :p
Nice troll anyway. Thanks for making my morning. :D
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Ummm, I believe the author of that post was being sarcastic, Mr. Mod Sir. It is telling that you consider them to be serious "solutions" though. :p
Nice troll anyway. Thanks for making my morning. :D

I agree, he was being sarcastic - however, what options are you/Dems proposing to wean us off of our oil dependence
 

Enig101

Senior member
May 21, 2006
362
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Ummm, I believe the author of that post was being sarcastic, Mr. Mod Sir. It is telling that you consider them to be serious "solutions" though. :p
Nice troll anyway. Thanks for making my morning. :D
I agree, he was being sarcastic - however, what options are you/Dems proposing to wean us off of our oil dependence
I would hope that the Dems are proposing to push for allocating budget to developing the tech and setting up the infrastructure to facilitate a transition to fuel-cell energy. Also, a general push for setting up renewable and clean energy sources.

Progress is being made in these areas. With the support of the US government, things would only go faster.
 

Woofmeister

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2004
1,384
0
76
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Woofmeister
Hey Steeplerot, does Pacific Gas and Electric (I assume that's whom you are referring to) really have a program that allows you to pay extra in order to have them deliver power to you from renewable sources? I've never heard of that here in the East. That would be a good idea for environmentally conscious consumers but I don't understand how that would work since electricity is delivered from the one single power grid.

Obviously power can't be directed from a particular source, so I have to imagine those programs are an accounting thing. Anybody that specifies the renewable energy option has their payments earmarked, and the accountants put them in a separate category. Then when the determine the profitability of any particular power source, it takes that into account and further power expansion plans are determined that way. Following that logic, if enough people specify renewable energy that all of the production from those sources is spoken for, there's a good chance that expansions would include more sources of that type since their profitability on paper is higher than traditional sources.

That's the only way I could logically see it working.

That doesn't sound at all like what Steeplerot was describing and I can't find any mention of such a program on PG&E's website. Still, it would be a great program if it could actually be implemented (and one which I would urge my utility to adopt) so I'm hopping Steeplerot will provide more details.

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
My primary provider here in Phoenix offers solar as an alternative. Funny how they charge you more though.
http://www.aps.com/my_community/Solar/Solar_4.html

APS Solar Partners·Rate Program
(formerly Solar Partners·

APS and its customers are teaming to use solar power, and to promote the development and use of solar energy through APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®).

Signing up for APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®) is an easy and inexpensive way to take advantage of the sun here in Arizona, and help protect the environment while enjoying the continued reliability of APS power.

Residential customers and businesses can both participate in APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®). By participating in APS Solar Partners® Rate Program, a portion of your home's or business' electricity needs will be met by solar power. You'll also be a pioneer in the use of solar power, and helping bring down the cost of solar electricity, and make it more affordable in the future.

It's a convenient, affordable way to take advantage of the state's most abundant source of renewable energy, the sun, and help preserve the environment while providing for a secure energy source for our future. You'll be making use of a renewable resource, reducing pollution and ensuring a better quality of life for our community. For the latest developments in APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®), APS environmental news and other exciting industry developments, read our newsletter Sol Mates (PDF file).* You may also view past issues of Sol Mates in our archives.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prior to that, my power provider in Oklahoma City provides wind power:
http://www.oge.com/es/wp/

About the Program

Since September 2003, OG&E has offered wind power as an energy option. It is our response to customer interest in alternative fuel. OG&E?s wind power program is one of the largest in the country with 50 megawatts of power. By 2007, OG&E plans to have 170 megawatts of electricity generated by wind on its system. That will be enough electricity to power about 51,000 homes.

Wind power is clean, renewable and efficient. With a small commitment ? as little as 100 kilowatt-hours per month for a year ? wind power could have the same environmental benefit as planting half an acre of trees.
Wind power can become an important part of Oklahoma?s economy and energy portfolio.

Due to overwhelming response to our wind power program, OG&E is currently sold out of wind power and has reached capacity on the waiting list. Therefore, we are not accepting wind power subscriptions at this time.

Wind Power Calculator
When natural gas prices are high, wind power can save customers as much as 10% over OG&E? standard rate for electricity, in spite of the fact that OG&E must keep power plants running to take over when the wind stops blowing.

It?s your choice on how much wind power you choose. Effective January 2006 the wind power rate is 10 cents for every 100 kilowatt hours. It is sold in 100 kWh units or blocks, and residential customers can choose from 100 to 2,000 kWh per month. Most business customers can choose from 100 to 4,000 kWh per month and some as much as 100 to 16,000 kWh per month. When gas prices are high, customers can save the most by subscribing to 100% wind power. Click on the Wind Power Calculator to see how signing up for wind will affect your monthly bill.

 

Woofmeister

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2004
1,384
0
76
Originally posted by: blackangst1
My primary provider here in Phoenix offers solar as an alternative. Funny how they charge you more though.
http://www.aps.com/my_community/Solar/Solar_4.html

APS Solar Partners·Rate Program
(formerly Solar Partners·

APS and its customers are teaming to use solar power, and to promote the development and use of solar energy through APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®).

Signing up for APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®) is an easy and inexpensive way to take advantage of the sun here in Arizona, and help protect the environment while enjoying the continued reliability of APS power.

Residential customers and businesses can both participate in APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®). By participating in APS Solar Partners® Rate Program, a portion of your home's or business' electricity needs will be met by solar power. You'll also be a pioneer in the use of solar power, and helping bring down the cost of solar electricity, and make it more affordable in the future.

It's a convenient, affordable way to take advantage of the state's most abundant source of renewable energy, the sun, and help preserve the environment while providing for a secure energy source for our future. You'll be making use of a renewable resource, reducing pollution and ensuring a better quality of life for our community. For the latest developments in APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®), APS environmental news and other exciting industry developments, read our newsletter Sol Mates (PDF file).* You may also view past issues of Sol Mates in our archives.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prior to that, my power provider in Oklahoma City provides wind power:
http://www.oge.com/es/wp/

About the Program

Since September 2003, OG&E has offered wind power as an energy option. It is our response to customer interest in alternative fuel. OG&E?s wind power program is one of the largest in the country with 50 megawatts of power. By 2007, OG&E plans to have 170 megawatts of electricity generated by wind on its system. That will be enough electricity to power about 51,000 homes.

Wind power is clean, renewable and efficient. With a small commitment ? as little as 100 kilowatt-hours per month for a year ? wind power could have the same environmental benefit as planting half an acre of trees.
Wind power can become an important part of Oklahoma?s economy and energy portfolio.

Due to overwhelming response to our wind power program, OG&E is currently sold out of wind power and has reached capacity on the waiting list. Therefore, we are not accepting wind power subscriptions at this time.

Wind Power Calculator
When natural gas prices are high, wind power can save customers as much as 10% over OG&E? standard rate for electricity, in spite of the fact that OG&E must keep power plants running to take over when the wind stops blowing.

It?s your choice on how much wind power you choose. Effective January 2006 the wind power rate is 10 cents for every 100 kilowatt hours. It is sold in 100 kWh units or blocks, and residential customers can choose from 100 to 2,000 kWh per month. Most business customers can choose from 100 to 4,000 kWh per month and some as much as 100 to 16,000 kWh per month. When gas prices are high, customers can save the most by subscribing to 100% wind power. Click on the Wind Power Calculator to see how signing up for wind will affect your monthly bill.
Thanks blackangst1!

Going to the APS website, I found this description of the program:

For $2.64 more than your usual monthly energy bill, you can join APS Solar Partners® Rate Program (formerly Solar Partners®). Your $2.64 ensures that 15 kWh of electricity is generated by an APS solar power plant. You may purchase additional solar power generation in 15 kWh block increments. A 15 kWh block is equivalent to the amount of electricity typically produced from about 100 watts of solar power each month.
In other words, they are not even "earmarking the payment" as BoberFett posits. Rather, APS is using your additional $2.64 to subsidize their own existing solar power generation. You could just as easily cut them a separate check and it doesn't make any difference in the type of power you actually end up drawing.

Once again, this does not sound like the PG&E program Steeplerot mentioned.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: BoberFett
If the Democrats can figure out how to be energy independent in 10 years, I'll pledge lifelong allegiance to them. I'm not going to hold my breath though.
They pull that off and I swear I'll convert to socialism and spend the rest of my days living off the dole. :)


On a serious note, doublethink is IMO tailor-made for democratic authoritarian types with cult of personality issues.

Make that 3 of us.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Enig101
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Ummm, I believe the author of that post was being sarcastic, Mr. Mod Sir. It is telling that you consider them to be serious "solutions" though. :p
Nice troll anyway. Thanks for making my morning. :D
I agree, he was being sarcastic - however, what options are you/Dems proposing to wean us off of our oil dependence
I would hope that the Dems are proposing to push for allocating budget to developing the tech and setting up the infrastructure to facilitate a transition to fuel-cell energy. Also, a general push for setting up renewable and clean energy sources.

Progress is being made in these areas. With the support of the US government, things would only go faster.

The government already supports this.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
I still think its funny that some believe we can have energy independance without exploiting our own resources? I guess its okay to have someone else do that dirty work.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CPA


Thanks for calling 95% of ATers lazy, selfish and irresponsible. Oh, and 97% of Americans. Good job insulting folks. You're a winner.

And thanks for being a pig with our resources because you are too lazy to move closer to work or take a bike or bus, no apologies. You know it is true and it is you peoples fault we are in this situation.

Realizing we have a problem takes admitting it to yourself first.


lol, you are something else. Me and my V8, gas-guzzling hemi salute you.

So, it's my fault that the company that I chose to work for and chose me to work for them (zoned by government), and the living area I chose for my family, including the school district that I selected for my children (established and served by government) are 30 miles apart?

Hey, everyone let's all live exactly the same because noone is different, everyone is the same. Sorry, steeplerot, not everyone has your life or wants it. You can't have your utopia, it does not, will not exist. Thank you, freewill.
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Ummm, I believe the author of that post was being sarcastic, Mr. Mod Sir. It is telling that you consider them to be serious "solutions" though. :p
Nice troll anyway. Thanks for making my morning. :D

I agree, he was being sarcastic - however, what options are you/Dems proposing to wean us off of our oil dependence

Something other than "stay the course" I can assure you. ;)
However, not being a legislator, I can't really give you specifics. Well, I could, but then I'd have to kill you. :p
 

boredhokie

Senior member
May 7, 2005
625
0
0
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CPA


Thanks for calling 95% of ATers lazy, selfish and irresponsible. Oh, and 97% of Americans. Good job insulting folks. You're a winner.

And thanks for being a pig with our resources because you are too lazy to move closer to work or take a bike or bus, no apologies. You know it is true and it is you peoples fault we are in this situation.

Realizing we have a problem takes admitting it to yourself first.


lol, you are something else. Me and my V8, gas-guzzling hemi salute you.

So, it's my fault that the company that I chose to work for and chose me to work for them (zoned by government), and the living area I chose for my family, including the school district that I selected for my children (established and served by government) are 30 miles apart?

Hey, everyone let's all live exactly the same because noone is different, everyone is the same. Sorry, steeplerot, not everyone has your life or wants it. You can't have your utopia, it does not, will not exist. Thank you, freewill.

Baby boomer logic - does anyone wonder why Iran is a stronger country than the US now? How terrorist-supporting OPEC countries, like Saudi Arabia, control the White House and own a large part of our debt?

I don't think anyone disagrees that you have the choice to put your self interests above those of any future generations, your family, or your waistline. The fact is that people in your mindset have put this country in the shape it is now: a complete reflection of your failures.

It is your fault that you commute 60 miles a day in your crappy car. It is your fault that our suburban way of life is not negotiable, hence soldiers getting their hands blown off in Iraq, with lower VA budgets to come home to every year. Thanks!