Pelosi does more damage....

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Don't worry guys, you can still claim that whichever side you are backing is right and Supporting The Troops the most if you admit to this basic truth.

The other side will remain just as treasonous and America Hating as they have always been, and they will undoubtedly get back to A.) Surrendering to the terrorists or B.)

Turning America into a fascist theocracy before you even know it.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Ok, fine, both sides share the blame. Let's just hope that they can compromise effectively so that the troops don't pay a bigger price than they already have.

I agree that while the troops are on the ground they must be given the proper funding to do their job while minimizing the potential for harm to fall on them. There is nothing I want more for our troops than for them to be able to get their job done safely and swiftly. However, Bush *needs* to change the way this war is being fought - without true goals, the troops will be there longer than they need to be.

 

[Lemon law]

Its been apparent for years that a military solution in Iraq is a chimera---and that stay the course or a mini-surge just wastes time---its GWB&co. who refuses to explore the diplomatic solutions that have any hope of working. And the Baker Hamilton reports are just totally ignored by the boy blunder and his merry band of fellow idiots.

In terms of support our troops---the greatest danger is an all out civil war the brings in neighboring countries---in which case the question will become can we get our troops out alive?

 

[theeedude]

I think the compromise is obvious. Congressional Republicans need to stop blocking the funding and vote to override Bush's veto.

 

[palehorse]

Orrrr, the Democrats can remove the timetable that resembles a predetermined date of surrender... just a thought.

 

[piasabird]

Democrats are too chicken to come out and say we dont support the troops, so we will not fund them. However, that is what they want to say and that is what they want to do. They care more for Mexicans, than they do for Americans.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Democrats are too chicken to come out and say we dont support the troops, so we will not fund them. However, that is what they want to say and that is what they want to do. They care more for Mexicans, than they do for Americans.

/troll

 

[Lemon law]

Well for what its worth the dems offered a pork free version with optional withdrawal dates and the Pres still went thumbs down.---so so much for the Pres vetoes to prevent pork excuse.

At this point I am in favor of the dems just sitting on their butts until GWB&co. runs out of funding. GWB&co. can't be permitted the infinite right to totally screw up in Iraq and its also not what the vast majority of the American people want. But give the President the money to bring our troops home with that money being usable for no other purposes. It may not be the best course but its still much better than letting George do it.---the decider is a total dud and a dunce. Diplomacy should be our national priority in Iraq.

Its also been my long held position that no progress in Iraq is possible until GWB and Cheney are impeached.

I am not in favor of any bill that does not have timetables and benchmarks.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Democrats are too chicken to come out and say we dont support the troops, so we will not fund them. However, that is what they want to say and that is what they want to do. They care more for Mexicans, than they do for Americans.

They support the troops, just not the war. That's why they are funding the troops but requiring a withdrawal.
The Republicans don't support the troops. They want to either have Democrats cut off funding without an orderly withdrawal which will put troops in danger, or to continue this failed war indefinitely, which will just waste more lives of those troops while accomplishing nothing. Bush just wants to drag this war out to pass this mess onto the next guy, because he's too chicken to accept responsibility for this debacle, and apparently lives of American troops and our country's treasure is a small price to pay for his vanity.

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Democrats are too chicken to come out and say we dont support the troops, so we will not fund them. However, that is what they want to say and that is what they want to do. They care more for Mexicans, than they do for Americans.

Well, seems like funding to the troops has been offered several times, in several ways by the Dems and that Bush is vetoing. So it appears that it's Bush and the Reps that don't support funding the troops.

I'll say it quite simply. Anyone who thinks Bush and the Republicans are in the right on this issue, is a moron. I'm not saying that the Dems are 100% right either, but I'm positively saying the Republicans are not right.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: thraashman

Originally posted by: piasabird
Democrats are too chicken to come out and say we dont support the troops, so we will not fund them. However, that is what they want to say and that is what they want to do. They care more for Mexicans, than they do for Americans.

Well, seems like funding to the troops has been offered several times, in several ways by the Dems and that Bush is vetoing. So it appears that it's Bush and the Reps that don't support funding the troops.

I'll say it quite simply. Anyone who thinks Bush and the Republicans are in the right on this issue, is a moron. I'm not saying that the Dems are 100% right either, but I'm positively saying the Republicans are not right.

They support the funding - without congressional meddling on dictating how to fund.

PS: Only one round can be fired when engaged with the enemy. And the opponent must have "insurgent" stenciled in black with florescent outline on there outer garment in order to fire.

 

[Jhhnn]

The part that the Bushfans can't, won't, and utterly refuse to see is that there's no victory possible for the US in Iraq short of mass murder on a scale that would have made Saddam blanche.

No government friendly to the US can possibly run the country at this point- the populace won't follow them, not after what's transpired.

All this is extremely simple, very straightforward.

Anybody who thinks that the "Surge" will accomplish the stated purposes prior to the 2008 election is pretty much working on the pollyanna principle. BushCo is as well aware of this as anybody. Their current objective is to push the inevitable withdrawal off onto the next guy, blame whoever that is (likely a Democrat) for "losing Iraq".

The whole "support the troops" routine is just a smokescreen for the simple fact that the troops are being used most egregiously in an effort to spread the blame for the Iraqi debacle across more than the Bush Admin... with no real prospects for winning anything other than preserving the legacy of the War President...

It doesn't really matter in terms of the final outcome if we withdraw by August 2008 or by August of 2012, or any other date, for that matter. We've unleashed forces beyond our control, and created possible outcomes that are incalculable, except in the sense that the Iraqis won't be friendly or forgiving for at least a few generations...

We've already lost the peace. Failure to recognize that and to create an orderly withdrawal scenario will simply result in more blood, and deeper hatred on the part of Iraqis.

Congress has no other lever to use on the Admin except funding. If Bush gets the money w/o strings, he'll simply veto any other efforts to force his compliance with the will of Congress and the people. The occupation must end, but Bush won't end it unless forced to do so.

 

[Jiggz]

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK

Originally posted by: jrenz
So you're saying all that stuff about Democrats being better than Republicans and how they were going to usher in a new era of cooperation and progress was just a lie, right?

it must be hard to work together with a bunch of immorral criminals. (R)

So you're saying it's easier to work with a bunch of moral criminals. (D)?

 

[THUGSROOK]

Originally posted by: Jiggz

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK

Originally posted by: jrenz
So you're saying all that stuff about Democrats being better than Republicans and how they were going to usher in a new era of cooperation and progress was just a lie, right?

it must be hard to work together with a bunch of immorral criminals. (R)

So you're saying it's easier to work with a bunch of moral criminals. (D)?

actually yes, i am

 

[Butterbean]

Thanks to Pelosi congress approval rating is even lower than Bush:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273413,00.html

 

[Lemon law]

The poll puts GWB numbers about 6 points higher than other polls---and congress quite a few points lower than most polls---somehow I doubt any fox news poll. And even then, within the margin of error of the Fox poll its basically a dead heat. And to hear Fox news crow, they make it sound like the Pres is trouncing congress. But the inference congress is likely to draw is that congress is being too soft on GWB.

I think I will wait for better polls and more evidence before I even conclude anything about recent public opinion polls.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: jrenz
And the slim victory the Democrats got was not a mandate for a liberal agenda, it was a protest against Bush and his policies. The country is still very much conservative, so maybe the Democrats should practice what they preached, instead of doing the same thing that caused the Republicans to fall out of favor.

Dont be so sure this "War in Iraq" and mismanagement of the country under the GOP and Bush's watch is changing the political view for many people and the next big block of future voters (teens and people in their 20s). Thats what the republican's dont understand they will be in the minority in this country in the next 20 years. The old die hard republicans will be long gone and not enough to save the party. Not to mention the rising population of sons and daughters from Mexican immigrants will be solidly in the Democratic camp when they are voting age and join in on the process.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
well bills would actually be passing without veto, and our military wouldnt have to worry about funding while they (we) risk their (our) lives every day. What you don't seem to realize is that the troops are staying over there regardless of this show the Dems are putting on right now in Congress. So, as always, the lesser of two evils in this case would be to let them have the funding they need - at least until the next election.

Either way, our troops are staying there and all of the Dems efforts to bring them by Christmas are for naught.

That there is the bold-faced truth the Dems are refusing to admit.

You need to go back to 7th grade, so you can find out how our government functions. If Congress refuses to allocate the funds to continue GWB's war, then one thing, and only one thing will happen: the troops will come home.

BTW, I know four people in Iraq, one of them a Colonel, and even he doesn't have hours per day to peruse and comment on forums, such as AT. That tells me that you're as full of BS as you seem to be, since you obviously aren't in Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: myocardia
BTW, I know four people in Iraq, one of them a Colonel, and even he doesn't have hours per day to peruse and comment on forums, such as AT. That tells me that you're as full of BS as you seem to be, since you obviously aren't in Iraq or Afghanistan.

That is correct, I am mostly stuck behind a desk, in neither one of those places.. this week.

My current job has me in and out of the various warzones, for various periods of time - I don't do "tours" with any specific unit. At this time, I am in another location to complete some training and prep with a new team.

So damn! You've seen through my big fuh-kade! Good for you! lol...

now, back to the subject at hand. This entire mess on the Hill is a show put on for the benefit of the Democrat Party's base.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: myocardia
BTW, I know four people in Iraq, one of them a Colonel, and even he doesn't have hours per day to peruse and comment on forums, such as AT. That tells me that you're as full of BS as you seem to be, since you obviously aren't in Iraq or Afghanistan.

That is correct, I am mostly stuck behind a desk, in neither one of those places.. this week.

My current job has me in and out of the various warzones, for various periods of time - I don't do "tours" with any specific unit. At this time, I am in another location to complete some training and prep with a new team.

So damn! You've seen through my big fuh-kade! Good for you! lol...

now, back to the subject at hand. This entire mess on the Hill is a show put on for the benefit of the Democrat Party's base.

Yeah, they should just continue open ended funding for your benefit.
In case you haven't noticed, there is a lot more than just Democratic base supporting withdrawal. So Bush's veto is just a show put on for the benefit of himself and a tiny minority of neocons.

 

[Lemon law]

IMHO, its long past time for congress to quit crapping around with GWB&co. And send a message to GWB--either you do it the congressional way or no funds for you Bushie. Cutting off the allowance is a message any spoiled brat understands. But by all means specifically allocate funds for the cost of getting the troops home---and those funds can only be spent for that purpose.

Maybe not the best course in Iraq---but certainly better than the GWB way.

 

[MagicConch]

They are all afraid of being labeled unpatriotic so he will have as much money as he wants for this war (and his friends making money of it) for as long as he sits in office no matter what bills are presented to him beforehand.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: MagicConch
They are all afraid of being labeled unpatriotic so he will have as much money as he wants for this war (and his friends making money of it) for as long as he sits in office no matter what bills are presented to him beforehand.

QFT! Which is why this entire ordeal is just what I said - a show!

Right or wrong, the end result is inevitable. At the end of the day, the best the Dems can say is "we tried" - which, coincidentally, is all they need to do to keep their base.

 

[Jhhnn]

From Palehorse, wrt assertions by Magic Conch-

QFT! Which is why this entire ordeal is just what I said - a show!

Which must mean that the Bushists', and your own "Support the troops!" guilt trip is just a show of its own...

Can't have it both ways.... if you support what Magic Conch said in the first place, then you know the occupation and the justifications for it are a sham... regardless of whatever accusations are levelled against the Dems...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: MagicConch
They are all afraid of being labeled unpatriotic so he will have as much money as he wants for this war (and his friends making money of it) for as long as he sits in office no matter what bills are presented to him beforehand.

QFT! Which is why this entire ordeal is just what I said - a show!

Right or wrong, the end result is inevitable.

At the end of the day, the best the Dems can say is "we tried" - which, coincidentally, is all they need to do to keep their base.

That's a hell of a lot better than lies about a false war for WMD, "Mission Accomplished" and "Stay the Course".